We need a combo thread for jecht

[Phaze08]

So.... I'm trying to find a good assist for jecht. For now I'm using seph but its somewhat boring compared to squalls crazy assist combos. Id like it to be a bit more dynamic. Does anyone have any cool videos to share with effective and unique combos?

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[gray_kaiser]

Why would you need it? We have one already, which is about Jecht AST. Here:http://dissidiaforums.com/showthread.php?8742-Best-Assist-Character....-For-Jecht

Learn this: An Assist is a must have for Jecht, because it let's you build some extra BRV points to land great damage with the already ones provided by Jecht combos. So again, why would you need a Combo Thread when you have an AST COMBO THREAD?

If you're too lazy to find it, that's not my problem. But it seems that you're, so here again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zix4wDkp3Uo&feature=player_embedded

[Veysey]

It's been a while but I'm pretty sure Cecil works best for Jecht and his Quad-combos. I think you can time aerial Cecil assist JUST before they crash into the ground with a downward brv finish. Of course, he works well on walls as well if you're HPing.

If you're curious about the quad combo, Rush - O - imperfect O for chase -> Dodge forward and Stream before they recover -> use a Stream combo that allows you to put the opponent into a ground rush (whether it is direct or assisted) -> Get to the ground, start a Rush combo and repeat. Sometimes, if you have SbS and the stage/opponent permits, you can "unofficially" string more than 4 combos in a row together.

[Phaze08]

Dude, sorry, I never got back to you lol. These are some of the greatest Jecht combos I've ever seen! Especially the WoL, that really impressed me, as I use him mainly as an assist. Normally, though, I try to be close to the ground, that way and I dash over there and combo them again as soon as they land, but the way you catch them with WoL is super awesome, I'm definitely going to start practicing this. :D

Btw, Veysey, I use the double/quad combo on human players everytime I fight them. Doesn't work on high lv CPUs of course, but it is amazing. The guy I fight the most has got to where he uses his recovery to dodge me though. (Controlled recovery) but aside from him, comboing that way really owns lol.

[Veysey]

If you do it right, it works on all CPUs and all human opponents. It's a true combo that can't be escaped... if you do it right. Timing is tight overall... maybe 5 frames to play with in regards to timing the dodge and the Stream attack.

[Madoka Titus]

Though the variety in Jecht's combos leaves a lot to be desired, the damage they do speak for themselves. You see one combo video, you've essentially seen the gist of them all.

[Phaze08]

So how do you get that specific timing down? Is there a strategy?

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---------- Post added 12-13-2011 at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous post was 12-12-2011 at 08:32 PM ----------

Also, I know I'm spamming the thread alot, but I want to ask you, gray_kaiser, could I use your video in my Jecht guide for a visual representation of some of the assist combos?

[Veysey]

Strategy would be (surprise surprise) practice. Simple as that. Practice it over and over until you can't get it wrong.

As for combos... you know, as a Jecht main, I dislike the focus on combos. If there was something interesting to be said for a character like Jecht, it's the many ways he can "get in" with his limited moveset. I'd be much more interested in videos detailing those kinds of strategies and approaches over combo videos.

[Phaze08]

I actually enjoy the combos because it makes Jecht unique and a powerhouse and he's fun to play because of this.He's also high damage lol. I can see your point, though. Really, though, you don't have many options with Jecht. What sort of 'getting in' do you have in mind? I know you're pretty great so I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

[Veysey]

I don't dislike combos; I said I dislike the focus on combos.

What I mean is - of example - when you fight Cloud, what tactics you'd use to open him up for example. How would you use Stream/Rush/Beam/Blade/UJS/TG to pressure. How would you deal with his various moves. Stuff like that.

So if I was fighting Cloud, I'd stick to the ground and rely heavily on Rush and Beam. I'd space him out so Cross slash, Climhazzard, Blade Beam, etc (longer range moves) are all that can hit you but Rush can still hit him. This way, I can choose specific spacings that might fool the Cloud and use Rush to either plow through his defense or punish bad wiffs.

These kinds of tactics and approaches are key to playing Jecht well, and while it's only one example; it IS one that's both impressive and funny to see working in practice (when you know what to look for as you watch). It also vastly improves the Jecht meta compared to what combos do (alter damage output when you actually land a hit). So that's what I meant.

(Also, I'm not "great", just knowledgeable about my character - but thanks for the compliment all the same)

[Reikou]

Veysey nailed it on the head. Jecht has far more than just his combos. His combos are bland and easy to do once you practice the timing and get it down to second nature. It's everything else about the character that makes him amazing. Melee High brave attacks into his combos?!?! What?! Bitch slap 90% of the attacks in DDFF and not even notice?!?! He's also very fast on the ground, faster than half the cast, which helps greatly getting in on some characters.

I personally prefer using Jecht block as my way into Cloud's defense. Blade beam is the only real thing you have to worry about, but even it can be double blocked even at point blank range. Preferably I'd Halo camp him if possible using Stream and Charged stream as my main pressure and Jecht blocks to remove any obstacles he may try to use.

The main reason for the Halo camp is because just above Cloud about a character space high is his blind spot, he has no way of getting in on Jecht fast enough. Meteorain is slow enough to assist punish or you can use Jecht beam to blast him out of it. Other than that, nothing he has is fast enough that can be of any real threat.

[Madoka Titus]

Since I think the current flow of responses was due to my post, I'm gonna say I didn't mean to diminish Jecht to just his variety of combos at all. I was just commenting on it is all, okay.

[Phaze08]

Knowledge is a pretty great thing to have in this game though. :D
In my opinion, Cloud's biggest threats are Fire, Firaga, and Slashing Blow. Slashing blow comes out moderately fast, can link to an HP, and covers a bit of ground between Cloud and his target, pretty bad move and hard to block if you're not on your toes.
Fire is great for a cloud to use, as you will try and block it, then the Cloud will just hit you after your block, and if fire does connect, theres a world of possibilities for combos that he can do. Also, if you leave the Fireball floating around, it may come back to haunt you as the Cloud can get a hit in, then let fireball hit while you're stunned, then start another attack. Bad Stuff. In my opinion, the best bet is to try and dash into the Fireball as soon as it shoots so you can get the spell going after the Cloud quickly and possibly get an attack in while he's recovering from the lag.
Firaga is not as bad as Fire I dont think, but it can cause some good damage to you if you get too close when he shoots the spell, and if you're not on your toes and try to block it, you'll likely stagger back and then get hit by the Cloud.
In my opinion, most of Cloud's attacks are easy to block unless you have something else coming at you such as Fire. Double Cut, of course, is very fast and not so easy to block, though.

[benfen]

You can move as soon as you block though. Blodge the fire and punish his now whiffed attack.

If he has Firaga on ground, you can assume he has either Fire-Fira-Firaga for mixup (stupid strat IMO) or Fire-Double Cut-Firaga (a lot better). In a stage like Phantom Train, Fire and Firaga can really mess you up, especially if the chairs have been destroyed. My personal Cloud setup is Fire-DC-SB+Finishing Touch (for heavy damaga after blocks). Usually, you'd know when the Cloud is going for a DC, unless he's smart. Up close Firaga/Fire mixups can fuck yo' shizz up, and mix that with the possibility of DC at the same proximity... uuurg

[Phaze08]

A really good Cloud won't give you time to do anything, once you throw up that block, he'll be in your face, ready to DC you, reflecting the fireball once more and hitting you. A friend of mine does it often on me lol, finally learned, the best thing to do is just dash into the fireball and try to get a hit in, block in anticipation for an attack, whatever you see fit. At least in my opinion this works well.
By the way, someone mentioned blocking Blade Beam. While you can, I believe if you block the sword itself, you will stagger back, not sure on that, though. Also, you have to be careful if you're close as the sword can hit you while in the air, and the hitbox is higher than the Beam's vertical reach.

[Reikou]

You guys do realize, you can use stream or rush to knock away fire, so you don't have to block or dash, which allows a dodge cancel into Jecht Block as well. Or use Jecht Beam (No opponent assist mind you, due to large active frames/cool down) to blow away Fire. Firaga is almost useless against Jecht since Firaga's cool down doesn't allow Cloud to approach and DC after it gets JB'ed.

And no, Jecht Blocking even the blade with Blade Beam will stagger Cloud and not Jecht. BB is a melee mid up close, not a melee high, so Cloud gets staggered, while Jecht is free to wail on him.

[Veysey]

I'm telling yas, space him out - sit at max/near max Rush range and Cloud will either give you the match or try to make you fight in the air (smart on his part since we're not as good there). Here is how it goes on the ground, though after you space:

- Fire gets attacked through and either you hit Cloud or dodge back to proper spacing. Fire is now on your side - use it. Fira and Firaga should just be JB'd and follow up with counters. If you've opted to hold a charge, Cloud SHOULDN'T cast any fire since you just got yourself a free hit.
- Double Cut ... you're too far away for it to be of use to Cloud - he needs to come in, telegraphing his intentions.
- Sonic Break - at that distance, blocking on reaction is easy enough
- Climhazzard is same as Sonic Break
- Blade Beam offers a bit of "pointless" pressure, but ultimately, you'll block most/all of them and get counters on some depending if you're too close or not (too close is higher risk but only way to reliably counter BB - not worth it given how safe spacing him out is)
- Cross Slash will always miss on the first hit. If you have a full charge, release it right after the first swing for a counter hit. Don't worry if you mistime because you'll just clash. If you're not charging, just jump full height and charge Stream. It'll stop the Cloud from ever throwing it out again unless you're a lot closer (or they're stupid)
- Meteorain you'll need to do one of two things depending on how prepared you are and where you're spaced. If you're close enough, hit him as he starts it - easy damage. If he's spaced well, dash in, JB... 6? times if I recall and counter hit before he can DC. The timing is a little weird at first, but worth learning.
- He can hop -> Shashing Blow on the ground but just walk back a little bit, release the charge, or block... you've got loads of time to react
- Hop -> Braver shouldn't be a problem, either and the best way to punish it is a short hop followed by a neutral dodge. You can dodge on the ground, but you'll sometimes get caught if it's mistimed since Braver has decent tracking (but if you have an assist bar, it might be worth going for a triple/quad combo). The aerial neutral dodge beats the tracking and sets up perfectly for a counter.
- Aerial Meteorain isn't much of a problem due to the poor overall tracking but does give Cloud a way to pressure you from the air and try to get you up there... just run away from where it can hit

Basically, Jecht can safely charge/space at that max distance and REALLY hurt Clouds ground game. It's a lot like how Garland was in DFF - just space him out and beat him down until he's finally like "Well, hell, I can't win down here" and goes to assist building in the air and pressuring you to follow.

If I were a Cloud, I would keep Meteorains, I'd equip Fire on the ground on medium to larger stages were there is room to influence its direction (and Firaga on small stages like EoM/Phantom Train), I'd have Blade Beam for assist building, I'd have Double Cut to keep Jecht out if he does get too close and to build assist. I wouldn't even equip Cross Slash to be honest unless you're on a cramped stage like PT or Pandi - EoM is even too big for it to be overly useful in this MU.

For air, I'd keep SB (great vs Stream), run DC again, and Aerial Fang (Jecht attacks better with Stream from below). Braver is still good dodge pressure. Even if you clash, remember - your goal as a player should be to break even (clash) or win - so clashing isn't bad at all - especially if you're continuing to put on good pressure.

And THAT is basically what Jecht does against Cloud on the ground. It's highly effective, so I suggest giving it a shot (I wish I had a video somewhere of it).

[benfen]

Listen to this guy. I can tell from my weeks of lurking, he knows his stuff.

I always keep Cross Slash on Cloud for the DC-Cross Slash, but it's useless all out. What you said about DC is usually true, but Cloud can mindgame you by running up right into DC range and pulling a Firaga on you (not a problem for Jecht though). A good Cloud will do EVERYTHING to not let his DC's get predictible.

[Veysey]

Being predictable or not is definitely what you need to worry about as a Jecht in the air, but on the ground it's usually not even an issue. You approach me on the ground and my focus all of a sudden shifts to getting my spacing back since it gives me such a good advantage - I'm not even going to worry about confronting a Cloud up close - it just opens up too many risks. On the odd occasion I DO look to confront an approaching Cloud (after he expects me to run some more), I'll likely just naked Rush since it's probably the safest thing to do up close (clash with DC, beat out Firaga cause of slow startup, clash with other brv except BB which gets stuffed and Sonic Break which usually beats me out if they didnt throw it out too slow... sometimes beats out Cross Slash - depends on both players timing there). If you're a little further, I'm MUCH more likely to throw out Beam and just say "Stay the #$%@ back" since it's pretty safe.

Honestly, if you're going to be approaching Jecht looking for DCs, I'd say mix up between DC and Sonic Break. If you go deep, either use DC or so something to "wait it out" and bait a reaction while leaving your ability to actually attack available. If you dont go too deep, do the same except mix up with Sonic Break sometimes. DC might wiff at larger spacings, but it's worth noting it's tough to punish and it'll clash with Rush uncharged. Larger spacings also open you up to Beam, though... so I guess there is a little insight on what Jecht players should be doing going into a Cloud vs Jecht. (Which, incidentally also helps Cloud players since they know what to look out for).

[benfen]

So, as a Jecht and Cloud player, I win both ways!

If the Cloud is good, he would NEVER Cross Slash right in your face. Sure, it might help in that situation you noted, but there's so many ways he would get beaten, by so many characters, by running up to DC range (even Firaga range) and using it.

Staying unpredictable on ground has it's advantages, imagine running up and charging Rush while they block, expecting a naked Rush that you've been playing all game. Insta full crit fully charged combo right there, what you do with it is up to you.