One-Winged Angel or Heaven's Cloud?

[Ben Wylde]

Hi there,

I wondered which weapon would be better, Sephiroth's unique weapon the One-Winged Angel or Heaven's Cloud - I thought about Heaven's Cloud with Katana Adept stuff for the additional damage, but don't know if it's worth it.

Which one would be better?

[Squall]

Hi there,

I wondered which weapon would be better, Sephiroth's unique weapon the One-Winged Angel or Heaven's Cloud - I thought about Heaven's Cloud with Katana Adept stuff for the additional damage, but don't know if it's worth it.

Which one would be better?
Since were talking about Equip Battles here,HC because of EX range+8

[pheano]

heavens cloud
if your playing him right you shoudnt need the extra damage since you can do so many combos

[Shigunetheseraph]

Hmmm, you have a point there *scratches chin*

[pheano]

i mean with out equipment you can break your oponent easily with out even DC'ing into other moves if they are at the base brv value

[Shigunetheseraph]

yeah that too

[pheano]

ex abuse ftw

[ThEpRoMiSeDlAnD]

i may consider this in my ex build i just like to use his weapon because its called the one winged angel lmao

[Lord Shmeckie]

The EX Intake range is nice, but OWA gives you not only a damage boost, but a built-in Sneak Attack effect, giving you more CP options. If you've already got EXP to EX, and/or an EX-centric accessory build, Heaven's Cloud might be redundant and better used elsewhere. The big intake range is nice, but you can get by with accessories that give a smaller range boosted with, well, boosters.

OWA just seems more practical, and considering how many times each of Sephiroth's attacks hit, having all those hits get increased damage is just too good to pass up.

[pheano]

The EX Intake range is nice, but OWA gives you not only a damage boost, but a built-in Sneak Attack effect, giving you more CP options. If you've already got EXP to EX, and/or an EX-centric accessory build, Heaven's Cloud might be redundant and better used elsewhere. The big intake range is nice, but you can get by with accessories that give a smaller range boosted with, well, boosters.

OWA just seems more practical, and considering how many times each of Sephiroth's attacks hit, having all those hits get increased damage is just too good to pass up.

the boost isnt necesary since you can break them in one hit after countering them
and its a minor sneek atack thats not worth unequiping sneek atack
ex spam is so much beter

[Lord Shmeckie]

If the opponent has defense increases, or EX Depletion, that Damage boost is gonna come in handy over the intake range. And, again, accessory setups can render it redundant.

[pheano]

ex depletion doesnt help enough when you are taking in orbs from a 20m+ range with a 50%+ absorption
youll be getting ex mode instantly

and theres not alot of good defense items anyways
but if you see them do that you can always change after

[Lord Shmeckie]

It's not as if there's EX everywhere. You'll get alot of EX, but someone with a Despair Shock build, or EX Depletion in general. Usually the EX Force is hardly 6 meters away from you. Accessories can cover it.

[pheano]

I t's not as if there's EX everywhere. You'll get alot of EX, but someone with a Despair Shock build, or EX Depletion in general. Usually the EX Force is hardly 6 meters away from you. Accessories can cover it.

you have to add on the 6m to the 3m on your gravitorb+modifiers

[Omni]

you have to add on the 6m to the 3m on your gravitorb+modifiers


It'd be (3m * Multiplier) + 6m.

Which, if you have a 6x Multiplier (like my build normally has), would be 24m. Which is stupid. Granted, I only use two Basic Accessories. But, that's just how I play. I do 150% Physical, and 95% for all types.

Let me rephrase that. I do 345% Physical damage, and 195% Damage with Magical. I also deal 195% Damage with... things that aren't physical or magical, I guess? But the point is, I hit you hard, largely in the face, with physical damage using my build. And, that's because I like dealing maximum damage. So, consider that when you think about your builds. :3

~Omni~

[tofu951753]

i run a brv rape ex set, so i deal lots of damage, don't really know how much

but i put on heaven's cloud, katana adept, red gem, champion belt, 2 mysteries of the visceral, and 1 esoteric secrets of combat

for ex i have graviorb, pearl necklace, close to u, center of the world

then i have x5 on multipliers

my sephiroth basically breaks the opponent right away if he lands sudden cruelty and oblivion, then i get ex mode really fast so i can ex counter with an hp atk

but anyway, imo, heaven's cloud > one winged angel

first off, u could get 2 free atk from katana adept, and 2 extra atk does more than +15% damage will ever do (yes, it's surprising, but u should read that damage guide thing on here somewhere, it'll explain everything)

second, if u move a lot, then the big sucking range helps u get ex mode extremely fast, since u'll be taking most of the orbs

[Omni]

i run a brv rape ex set, so i deal lots of damage, don't really know how much

but i put on heaven's cloud, katana adept, red gem, champion belt, 2 mysteries of the visceral, and 1 esoteric secrets of combat

for ex i have graviorb, pearl necklace, close to u, center of the world

then i have x5 on multipliers

my sephiroth basically breaks the opponent right away if he lands sudden cruelty and oblivion, then i get ex mode really fast so i can ex counter with an hp atk

but anyway, imo, heaven's cloud > one winged angel

first off, u could get 2 free atk from katana adept, and 2 extra atk does more than +15% damage will ever do (yes, it's surprising, but u should read that damage guide thing on here somewhere, it'll explain everything)

second, if u move a lot, then the big sucking range helps u get ex mode extremely fast, since u'll be taking most of the orbs

Please remember, Heaven's Cloud has a natural +68 Attack, and with the Mastery, that raises it to +70.

One Winged Angel, however, has a natural +69 Attack.

So, the calculation you're looking for is wether or not 1 Attack is better than +15% Damage.

In general, people should be very careful about what they're thinking. For instance, my Sephiroth currently has 180 Attack, and 188 Defense. Also, 64 Luck. Cause, I'm the kind of jerk that has 64 Luck. :3

If you have 181 Attack, but lose 15% Damage for it? That's really your loss. Honestly, if you feel you MUST maximize your attack score, start using Axes. Otherwise, you're not doing everything you can to hit harder. Axes have the highest attack, and then with mastery, get +2. So, +72 with an Earthbreaker. I dunno if I can get something better than that, ever. Gods, I hope I can. Earthbreaker isn't my favorite kind of weapon. But, that's how you do it.

Anyways, you get back to me with your stats using your build. I don't use a Red Gem atm, because I like my multipliers. But, if I really do think I need it, I'll probably drop Destroyer for it. Still, I have plenty of ways to be amazing with him, beyond whatever you're doing. Even if you can be at full EX whenever, if I can break your bravery before you can activate EX Mode, I'll still beat your ass down.

[tofu951753]

fine, but 1 atk is still better than 15% more damage

my sephy has 182 atk (red gem and katana adept are awesome), lol, and 40% more crash damage from the mysteries of the visceral (helps with oblivion)

he also gets a 30% damage boost from the mysteries of the visceral and esoteric secrets of combat and 100% more from x5 multipliers on champion belt, lol

he also gets ex mode really fast from the killer sucking range and x5 on pearl necklace with center of the world and close to u

[Omni]

fine, but 1 atk is still better than 15% more damage

my sephy has 182 atk (red gem and katana adept are awesome), lol, and 40% more crash damage from the mysteries of the visceral (helps with oblivion)

he also gets a 30% damage boost from the mysteries of the visceral and esoteric secrets of combat and 100% more from x5 multipliers on champion belt, lol

he also gets ex mode really fast from the killer sucking range and x5 on pearl necklace with center of the world and close to u

So, if I used a Red Gem in my build (which I don't, atm) I'd have 183 attack? But, I don't.

Second of all, I just modified my build, for 7.5x multipliers, which is nice. :3 Not perfect, but nice. It's normally only at 5, but I can pretty stably stay at around 5. Even so, I'm still fairly confident that OWA is better than Heaven's Cloud. In fact, I think I'll go modify my build to include that Red Gem, just to prove a point. :3

[lordsauron]

After a lot of testing I found that damage % up doesn't matter much at all unless you can boost it. Even then ATK is much better. Getting ExMode fast is really really good, and beats % any day.

[pheano]

exmode is the most broken aspect of the game
heavens cloud over one winged angle all day
/thread

[tofu951753]

So, if I used a Red Gem in my build (which I don't, atm) I'd have 183 attack? But, I don't.

Second of all, I just modified my build, for 7.5x multipliers, which is nice. :3 Not perfect, but nice. It's normally only at 5, but I can pretty stably stay at around 5. Even so, I'm still fairly confident that OWA is better than Heaven's Cloud. In fact, I think I'll go modify my build to include that Red Gem, just to prove a point. :3

uhh, no, with a red gem u'll have 181

the reason i have 182 is because of katana adept also

u should read my post next time, lol, i mentioned katana adept in it

[Harsh_Knight100]

i prefer his main. One winged Angel, because I like the Minor Sneak Attack and the 15% damage tacked on with it.

[Omni]

uhh, no, with a red gem u'll have 181

the reason i have 182 is because of katana adept also

u should read my post next time, lol, i mentioned katana adept in it

Well, let me see. I had 180 before I added the Red Gem.

BASIC MATH TIME!

180 + 2 = ?

If I remember correctly, the answer is 182. WHOO!

Well, looks like we were both wrong. Admittedly, if I had Katana Adept, I would have 183, though. Because of the drop of one on the weapon, for two points in adept. Then again, I might as well equip a parrying weapon for 184 attack! Woahhh. Since THAT'S a silly idea, I'll stick with my 182 with a Red Gem, my 5 to 7.5 times multiplier, and my extra 15% from One Winged Angel. Now, for the record? I really like the amount of damage I can output with Sephiroth. If I can hit for, roughly, 100 Brave on Reaper with each hit? I'm perfectly happy. Hell, even if only a couple hits do that much, and the rest do 30, I'm happy. And, that's without Critting. Again, I'll do more testing, to see just how hard I can hit someone that's effective level is 105, or higher, but the fact is, I enjoy my build, and I enjoy being able to break the majority of people quickly, and easily.

Then again, I have another build for a different character (would work for Sephiroth, but probably suck more for him) that gives a multiplier of over 50x. It runs Smiting Soul, for 100% chance to auto break people for a while. But, it's kinda easy to murder in the face.

Anyways, the point is, I'm fairly certain the bonus damage from OWA is better than the +6m EX Intake Range. I mean, if I really wanted extra Attack, I'd teach him Axes. Cause, those are WAY better at hitting things in the face. :3

[tofu951753]

Well, let me see. I had 180 before I added the Red Gem.

BASIC MATH TIME!

180 + 2 = ?

If I remember correctly, the answer is 182. WHOO!

Well, looks like we were both wrong. Admittedly, if I had Katana Adept, I would have 183, though. Because of the drop of one on the weapon, for two points in adept. Then again, I might as well equip a parrying weapon for 184 attack! Woahhh. Since THAT'S a silly idea, I'll stick with my 182 with a Red Gem, my 5 to 7.5 times multiplier, and my extra 15% from One Winged Angel. Now, for the record? I really like the amount of damage I can output with Sephiroth. If I can hit for, roughly, 100 Brave on Reaper with each hit? I'm perfectly happy. Hell, even if only a couple hits do that much, and the rest do 30, I'm happy. And, that's without Critting. Again, I'll do more testing, to see just how hard I can hit someone that's effective level is 105, or higher, but the fact is, I enjoy my build, and I enjoy being able to break the majority of people quickly, and easily.

Then again, I have another build for a different character (would work for Sephiroth, but probably suck more for him) that gives a multiplier of over 50x. It runs Smiting Soul, for 100% chance to auto break people for a while. But, it's kinda easy to murder in the face.

Anyways, the point is, I'm fairly certain the bonus damage from OWA is better than the +6m EX Intake Range. I mean, if I really wanted extra Attack, I'd teach him Axes. Cause, those are WAY better at hitting things in the face. :3

apparently u fail at basic math

i have 178 with heaven's cloud, add the katana adept and i get 180, add one red gem and i have 182

while for one winged angel, i have 179, add in one red drop and i get 181
YOU CAN'T PUT ON KATANA ADEPT FOR ONE WINGED ANGEL, THEREFORE I HAVE NO IDEA HOW U GOT 179+2=183

and i don't feel like reading the rest of ur post because apparently u didn't read mine, hence u got the dumb "179+2=183" statement

and fyi, my sephiroth set does over 100 for each hit on sudden cruelty, add on the oblivion and how the last hit does ~400 with my 40% more crash damage and it's instant break

[pikachuwei]

Heaven's cloud + katana adept + full ATK set (for me its just 10 strength powders etc since i havent unlocked red gem yet) = win

im sure everyone knows now, but just in case you dont, ATK > % boosters period
%boosters only do more in non crits, and since ull be critting a LOT with sephiroth +atk is MUCH better.

I can pull 3k EX bursts on maximum level 100s (anotehr bonus of ATK accessories, they boost ur EX burst power heaps, almost 2x imo, while % do NOTHING for EX burst, since they dont count.)

[RDFMASTER]

where is the katana adept can any tell me about i need for my sephi

[pheano]

where is the katana adept can any tell me about i need for my sephi

master katana proficiency

[TheCuddlyDevil]

I had trouble finding Katana Equip. Get Samurai Lore in Gabranth's level, use it to get Katana Equip, master it and you'll learn Katana Adept.

Ta-da!

[|ucktle]

where is the katana adept can any tell me about i need for my sephi

Buy the ability "Equip Katana" in the shop and enable it. Master it and you get Katana Adept for a nifty +2 ATK.

[TheCuddlyDevil]

Why talk when we can experiment?

I battled against Stilzkin 1, lvl45 Exdeath, removed all equipement save for weapons.

Heaven's Cloud + Katana Adept deal 104 Bravery points per hit from Sudden Cruelty

One-Winged Angel deals 119 Bravery points per hit!

I didn't stop there, since I heard how damage % and ATK affect critical attacks differently, so let's go.

Heaven's Cloud + Katana Adept deal 523 BPs when critical.

One-Winged Angel deals 533 BPs when critical.

Hmmm, interesting.

Mind you that's the damage from one "hit", reminding all of your that that the two Button inputs for Sudden Cruelty include many hits, so this is alot of damage we're talking about. Then again, I'm battling a lvl45 ExDeath, so maybe the damage difference won't be so different on higher level opponents with better stats and armor?

Anyway, there you have it, damage % of OWA is better than HC's ATK, you also get to save some CP.

Only reason you would want HC now is for the EX intake range, which is actually nice, but you'll have to decide for yourself if it's worth the extra CP and lower ATK (and damage).

Please rep if you found this helpful. >.>

[tofu951753]

u do know everything is different when u play with equips right?

if ur opponent has high def like when u play in equips, that 15% damage won't help

reason: 15% damage is a lot if u do a lot of damage to start with, like say u do 500 dmg per hit, 15% of that would be 75 more damage

but what happens when that number goes down, like when u play in equips and u only do in best case scenario ~100 per hit, 15% of that is only 15 more damage, which isn't as much as what 2 extra atk would do

to give u an example, here's my test results on a fully equiped zidane ghost

with my heaven's cloud and katana adept, i do 117 per hit with all my multipliers active and etc

with owa and all multipliers active, i do 110 per hit (1 atk difference)

now why would i go for owa if that 15% didn't really help and i could use less accs with heaven's cloud

basically, in equips, 2 atk makes a big difference since % is only good if u do lots of damage in the first place, like a lv100 vs a lv45 for example

btw, did u know ppl already did tests on what was better, damage percent or atk power, the thread should be on here somewhere

edit:
here u go, found it for u http://dissidiaforums.com/showthread.php?t=766

[TheCuddlyDevil]

Oh, that's a very good point. I do remember talking with my friend about the difference between damage and attack, and we talked about how Attack was a "factor" in the equation, while damage was the result.

But you do have a point. I guess on higher levels HC is better? Is this always the case, for instance, in DC BJ course?

Also, I have read that thread before, which was why I was surprised I got better results with damage %. I guess, in the end, HC with Katana Adept definitely does deal higher damage on higher levels, the question would be if the difference in damage (which seems pretty big) would be worth the extra CP. I suppose with the EX intake range it actually is, also giving you room for more accessories.

Hmmm....

[pheano]

i really think this topic should be revised and redirected twords more than just equipment but also accesories

the gerenral question is which is better on sephiroth, damage % or ex mode

this really should depend on the tornament rules
if you can ex counter then ex mode is the obvious choice

if you cant ex counter but you can ex guard then thats more of a matter of match up really since i feal a massive damage increase vs saving your life depends on hwo their attacks work

for instance i think in a non excountering environment the damage % up would be much beter against say squall since his hp attacks are very dificult to properly time an ex guard

where as i would feal much safer against onion knight being able to build ex mode up diring his attacks and be able to ex guard them

[TheCuddlyDevil]

Good point. Personally I wouldn't care about EX mode so much if it weren't for Heartless Angel, which is an absolute SAVER at times. Ugh.

On an off-note, I caught myself using EX-countering as a crutch in Black Jack course, which was the only way I got to land HP attacks, so I used Force Begets Courage to take care of that. The practice helped.

[ThEpRoMiSeDlAnD]

Good point. Personally I wouldn't care about EX mode so much if it weren't for Heartless Angel, which is an absolute SAVER at times. Ugh.

On an off-note, I caught myself using EX-countering as a crutch in Black Jack course, which was the only way I got to land HP attacks, so I used Force Begets Courage to take care of that. The practice helped.

great way to learn to fight wit out ex mode but i wouldnt go into competitive play with it on sephiroth.

[pheano]

force begets courage is ok on sephiroth but the damage increassers build up more brv and you can still use exmode