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Lord Shmeckie
11-01-2009, 01:22 AM
1. How Does It Work?

Grand Cross spawns on top of the opponent within a set area. I like to call this the "Donut of Death." You'll need to experiment to find the exact reach of the Donut (hell, I'm learning it, myself), but you're gonna want to get as good an idea as possible of the Donut. If the opponent is outside the Donut, it will spawn toward the opponent, at the edge of the Donut. Even if you miss, this will help you learn the distance the attack can spawn.

The command version does not have the horizontal or vertical reach of the counter version, so don't use that as a guide.

Grand Cross has a long start up time. The attack takes hold of the opponent approx. 1 second after Exdeath finishes saying "this is it!" Before then, the spawning point will track the opponent withing the range of the Donut. Once this point of the attack starts, it will stop tracking the opponent. If the opponent is within the Grand Cross after this point, they cannot escape. Even EX Guard can't save them, much like Emperor's Thunder Crest. For the sake of this guide, let's call this the "Catch Point," After taking a few hits of BP damage, they take HP damage.

2. Why Should I Use It?

Grand Cross is, without a doubt, Exdeath's best HP punisher along with Delta Attack. While Delta Attack punishes up-close attacks, Grand Cross punishes from a distance. Many of the best attacks several characters have will give Exdeath a guaranteed Grand Cross, making for a guaranteed HP attack with some BP support/buildup beforehand.

3. When Do I Use It?

First, I can tell you when NOT to use it: Offensively. Is Exdeath offensive?! Generally, no. This attack reflects that. Grand Cross should only be used when you think/know the opponent will be caught in the Catch Point.

Now we get to the meat of the guide: the guide to Grand Crossing each character! To make this easier, I'll color code it! Green means it's guaranteed. The only way to not hit with it is if you screw up. Orange means it's tougher. You have a smaller window, and you need to be accurate. Red means it's situational. You're usually not going to hit with it, but situations can arise where you can. Grey means it needs further testing.

And now, the guide!

Warrior of Light
Shining Wave - You need to be precise as fuck with this one. Just far enough not to be hit with Shining Wave, while still close enough to be in the Donut of Death. It's risky, but if you think you're in the right spot, go for it! May be upgraded with further testing.

Garland
Blaze - A riskier alternative to High Block. You can do it, but don't bother.

Cyclone - Must be done as soon as he starts up the move. Much more likely, since most Garlands will do this at a distance for Cyclone Walling. Window may be imperfect. Requires more testing.

Firion
Weaponmaster - Dash/dodge away, and Grand Cross. Very easy to do. Much easier than Omni Blocking.

Reel Axe - Dodge it early and Grand Cross. It's a better idea to Omni Block and C-Grand Cross, but if you're unsure of your Omni Block abilities, use it as your training wheels.

The Emperor
Starfall - Keep him well within the Donut, and use it. He moves too slowly to escape, but he can cancel it. He'll likely escape, but if he's feeling too confident, he'll get Crossed. You can mindgame him by waiting until Starfall is almost finished casting to use it. If you succeed, he'll try to risk it and finish before Grand Cross. If you timed it right, he'll be in for a nasty suprise.

Dynamite - Same as Starfall. If he doesn't ditch the attack, he can't escape otherwise.

Flare - Needs to be activated at the same time as Emperor uses Flare. You need to practically be reading his mind to land this one.

Onion Knight
Wind Shear - A much easier alternative to Omni Blocking. Just dash away and Grand Cross. You have a nice, big window for this, so you're very likely to get him. If you miss, you suck. Plain and simple.

Comet - Dash away, and Grand Cross. Not away in the opposite direction, but to either side of him, without being too close. You stop the attack in the Catch Point before he can turn to face you. As an added bonus, the Donut of Death is actually bigger than Comet's entire range, meaning you can stay safely just outside of Comet's range and activate Grand Cross.

Cloud of Darkness
0-Form Particle Beam - Start it at the beginning of the attack after dodging/dashing. She can end it early, so your window is small.

Cecil
Dark Flame - Yup. Grand Crossable. Get him relatively early, get your distance, and you'll get him.

Golbez
Genesis Rock - A much better window than initially thought. If you manage to dash away and activate Grand Cross just as Golbez says "time to part," you'll get him guaranteed. The window is pretty small, though, so don't waste any time.

Bartz
Wind Shear - Same as Onion Knight.

Reel Impulse - Same as Firion's Reel Axe.

Yourself
Grand Cross - If the faker screws up and Grand Crosses, pay him back in kind. Once it's not tracking you, you should be good to unleash your payback.

High Block (prolonged) - If he's had High Block out for long enough, the lag will be enough that he can't do anything but take the Grand Cross.

Terra
Meltdown - If she fully charges it, you'll hit before she unleashes it. You're better off Omni-Blocking it. At that distance, it's easy to see coming, and thus time Omni Block, so don't bother. But, if you want to, the option's there.

Tornado - Same principle as Wind Shear. Dash away, Grand Cross. You've got a nice big window, so have no fear. Not as easy as Wind Shear, but definately Green territory.

Kefka
Forsaken Null - Kefka has a minimal amount of time where he HAS to be in Forsaken Null before he can deactivate it. This window consists of his startup phrase ("whaddya think of this"), the "disk" slowly rising out of him, and having time to drop at least one shot before Kefka can turn it off. This window is nice and big, as long as you get it early. If you're in range, or can get there quickly when he starts it, you will land Grand Cross on him.

Ultima - Needs further testing. May be a window.

Cloud
Meteorain - Tricky to do it early enough, within the window, and not in the meteors' reach, but if you activate it early enough, you'll get him.

Sephiroth
No known windows as of yet.

Squall
No known windows as of yet.

Ultimecia
Apocalypse - If you activate Grand Cross just as she starts up the attack, she can't get out of it fast enough to escape Grand Cross. If you're quick, and ready for it, you've got her guaranteed.

Zidane
No known windows as of yet.

Kuja
Seraphic Star - Horribly easy. Dodge the initial shot, then Grand Cross. The window is huge, like Wind Shear. No good Kuja is going to use this on you, but if he has a brain fart, make him pay for it.

Flare Star - Trickier than Seraphic Star, but the majority of the time you're going to hit with it, so we'll leave it Green. It helps to have Midair Evasion Boost equipped to get Kuja in the Donut with a single dodge. When he starts it up, immediately dodge directly away from him and use Grand Cross as soon as you can. Chances are, he'll be just within the Donut.

Tidus
No known windows as of yet.

Jecht
Ultimate Jecht Shot - Pretty easy, because of how long the attack lasts. The entire startup should give you ample time to get in position and use Grand Cross. As long as you don't waste too much time, this should be cake.

Shantotto
HP Attacks - It's better that you High Block, but if she misses, or if she's got 6000+ BP and you don't want to Omni Block, use this. She's wiiiiide open during those HP attacks. May be Orange after further testing, but for now it's Green. Use it early, though.

Gabranth
Innocence (midair) - You have two options the moment Gabranth tells you that your life ends here: dash under him, get level, and Delta Attack, or dash away, and use Grand Cross. Use it before or during the first slash he shoots, though, or the attack will end, and he'll be able to dodge, before the Catch Point gets him. This one is actually quite easy--almost Green territory. However, due to the strict timing required, I'm marking it Orange. Practice enough, and you'll get him every time, though.

Innocence (ground) - Same principle, but trickier. This version has much better horizontal range, so you'll need to dash past him, not directly away, then use Grand Cross. He can't track you fast enough that way, but now your window is smaller and more strict. Use with caution.

Hatred - If he's not fast enough at ending the attack, and you start Grand Cross early, he'll get caught. Situational, but a good way to punish a mistake and work in some mindgames.

Falling EX Charge - Similar to Hatred: if he's slow to end it, he's going to get caught.

rshadowkirby
11-01-2009, 01:25 AM
thats nice now be real pro and show us a list of how to counter grand cross

Knocking_you_all_down
11-01-2009, 01:33 AM
Genesis Rock may be Crand Crossable. He moves pretty slowly and I don't think he could escape. Someone needs to test that. I'm glad you're informing all the Exdeath mains about the gratuitous amount of uses that Grand Cross can have, though. Good job, Shmeckie.

Lord Shmeckie
11-01-2009, 01:35 AM
I was thinking Genesis Rock may be possible, but I don't think it leaves him open long enough. If I'm not mistaken, if you start both moves at the same time, Genesis Rock ends just before the Catch Point.

Knocking_you_all_down
11-01-2009, 01:42 AM
I was thinking Genesis Rock may be possible, but I don't think it leaves him open long enough. If I'm not mistaken, if you start both moves at the same time, Genesis Rock ends just before the Catch Point.
But I don't think Golbez would be able to dodge out of the way if you consider the endlag. Like I said, it still needs testing. I don't have a way to fight online, so unfortunately I can't test it. If it is a window, it'll almost definitely be listed in red.

Suppi
11-01-2009, 01:44 AM
underline bold is getting really tiresome to read :3 But I never liked Grand Cross *Crand Cross for Knock* :3

Knocking_you_all_down
11-01-2009, 01:48 AM
underline bold is getting really tiresome to read :3 But I never liked Grand Cross *Crand Cross for Knock* :3
This font is just my thing. It also has italics if you didn't notice. Besides, What's not to like about Grand Cross? (Grand Cross, not Crand Cross.)

Suppi
11-01-2009, 01:51 AM
This font is just my thing. It also has italics if you didn't notice. Besides, What's not to like about Grand Cross? (Grand Cross, not Crand Cross.)

well the stand alone skill is to hard to hit with and I only use the counter form of it :3

rshadowkirby
11-01-2009, 01:52 AM
the counter version can be dodged rite? (whats what i meant when i asked someone to post a counter for grand cross)

Suppi
11-01-2009, 01:54 AM
the counter version can be dodged rite? (whats what i meant when i asked someone to post a counter for grand cross)

yeah it can... easily too depending what you countered.

Knocking_you_all_down
11-01-2009, 01:58 AM
the counter version can be dodged rite? (whats what i meant when i asked someone to post a counter for grand cross)
It's highly unlikely that you'll escape.

Lord Shmeckie
11-01-2009, 02:03 AM
If Exdeath uses it at the right time, there's nothing you can do.

rshadowkirby
11-01-2009, 02:05 AM
It's highly unlikely that you'll escape.

ive escaped a few times actually, i THINK thres a frame or two where you can get out

Knocking_you_all_down
11-01-2009, 02:15 AM
ive escaped a few times actually, i THINK thres a frame or two where you can get out
Like I said, possible, but VERY unlikely.

rshadowkirby
11-01-2009, 02:17 AM
ive also dodged out of meo twister, i did it 3 times in one match (reb and i were like wtf)

Knocking_you_all_down
11-01-2009, 02:19 AM
ive also dodged out of meo twister, i did it 3 times in one match (reb and i were like wtf)
Well good for you, but that isn't the matter at hand here.

Lord Shmeckie
11-01-2009, 03:22 AM
This topic is about command Grand Cross, and how to use it.

rshadowkirby
11-01-2009, 03:23 AM
This topic is about command Grand Cross, and how to use it.

i wouldnt know that because the topics name is "grand cross and you"

that doesnt mean its about command grand cross per say >_>

Lord Shmeckie
11-01-2009, 03:25 AM
Well that's fantastic for you, now keep it on topic or stay out.
=== Double post was automatically merged. ===
After further testing, Forsaken Null gets bumped up to Green status. Go nuts with the Cross, Exdeathers!

Xirmant
11-05-2009, 09:00 AM
I think WoL's Radiant Sword might be GC'able they start off moving slowly then speed up so I think if you use just as he starts it you'll get him before the swords can reach you.

Or you can just Hi Blk then C-GC him. Your choice

Lord Shmeckie
11-05-2009, 09:15 AM
Updated the list. Turns out Jecht has a Green window.

Enuo
11-05-2009, 10:57 AM
Wow! I didn't know how useful grand cross can be! Thanks for the guide!

PS: Crand cross isn't easily avoided seeing on how you can choose when to execute it, dodging sometimes doesn't work and for some moves it's impossible.

Xirmant
11-10-2009, 01:13 PM
Going a little bit off topic do you think you could test out openings for command Almagest. I just don't have as much time as I would like to test, that and the fact your godly with Exdeath.

Back on topic... yeah good job I'm getting a little bit better everyday now :)

Enuo
11-10-2009, 07:18 PM
^^^^

Flood is one.

Lord Shmeckie
11-11-2009, 08:59 PM
I plan on testing Almagest more after I work on Grand Cross. I can say, though, that it can make for a pretty good mindgame now and then. Also, like Enuo said, it can be used against Flood.
=== Double post was automatically merged. ===
Updated the guide. WoL has a window.

RDFMASTER
11-16-2009, 04:11 AM
I plan on testing Almagest more after I work on Grand Cross. I can say, though, that it can make for a pretty good mindgame now and then. Also, like Enuo said, it can be used against Flood.
=== Double post was automatically merged. ===
Updated the guide. WoL has a window.

Don't try to use this attack unless i am so far from you cuz when i use shining wave, it's recovery time is fast :p

Lord Shmeckie
11-24-2009, 01:43 AM
Updated the guide. Found a window against Ultimecia.

Lord Shmeckie
12-31-2009, 08:32 PM
Updated the guide: Turns out Genesis Rock IS viable.

Xirmant
01-01-2010, 06:31 PM
I think you can also use it when Sephiroth uses Octoslash as well but I'll need to try it more

EDIT: Tried it out some more its a no-go unless you RP'd a fair distance from him even then it's a very tight window. Omni Dashing away then using it would probrably yield ths same results.

VOID
01-01-2010, 09:40 PM
I have caught Squall many times during Mystic Flurry very situational but window is as soon as he releases the second shot

rshadowkirby
01-01-2010, 10:10 PM
ive never used exdeath but im thinking maybe kefkas WWF has a potential to be grand crossed

Xirmant
01-01-2010, 10:18 PM
probrably but it would be like what he said for emporers Flare

rshadowkirby
01-01-2010, 10:23 PM
yes but its not very hard to figure out when kefka is going to use wwf
i mean IT IS his bread and butter attack

it would be easier to do than ultima
ultima may be slow but i dont think its that slow

Lord Shmeckie
01-05-2010, 02:49 AM
Updated. Cecil's Dark Flame is viable for Grand Cross.

Colonel-Gilgamesh
01-05-2010, 02:57 AM
Hey, Hyperdrive can be added to the list provided you have a wall separating you. The second Kefka sees Grand Cross, he'll let go, so if you get him while he's charging from Stage 1 to Stage 2, he'll likely try to just keep the charging it. I mention the wall because it's important that you aren't in it's range in case he DOES go trigger happy, as it's speed will most likely trounce your attempt. It's a small window and situational, but since it can't really be blocked otherwise....You might want to put it in both Red and Underlined

Lord Shmeckie
01-05-2010, 03:25 AM
That's so situational it's hardly worth it...

Colonel-Gilgamesh
01-05-2010, 04:05 AM
Upon reviewing some of my old vids, it seems like a situation with Flare, where if you time it very well to the point it comes out only a little bit after Hyperdrive, Kefka won't be able dodge in time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwcyxdD_-sI

There are clearly a few moments where I could have been Crossed while Charging

Neo Bahamut
05-17-2010, 03:47 AM
I'm having a unique problem. This seems as good a place as any to put it. You see, I just plain can't do Grand Cross. I'm not sure why. I've tried <+[], >+[], & []. All of them just seem to do Almagest.

Shuruka
05-17-2010, 04:11 AM
I'm having a unique problem. This seems as good a place as any to put it. You see, I just plain can't do Grand Cross. I'm not sure why. I've tried <+[], >+[], & []. All of them just seem to do Almagest.
are you taking about blocking?

if so, i find sometimes Exdeaths air block is strange, try pointing the stick towards opponant instead of up.

if not is it equiped, and so

Neo Bahamut
05-17-2010, 04:46 AM
I am talking about blocked. The problem with that suggestion is that my analogue stick is broken. It can move in any direction OTHER than up, but on the other hand, I'd been using the arrow keys, for obvious reasons.

We can't find the receipt & so I need to get a new PSP. Which is just as well, I think the battery is all screwed up.

It's really quite a mess.

Exdeath
08-07-2010, 09:32 AM
thx i always used grand cross for counters