The Cloud of Darkness Discussion Thread

[Kraid]

So I decided it might be a good idea to finally put a discussion thread for Cloud of Darkness up.

This is not a guide: I just really want peoples inputs. A description of every attack and how it's useful could help people out also.

The reason: I want people to get better using the Cloud of Darkness.
The Real Reason: I want to get better using the Cloud of Darkness

But realising this, I realised I need to brainstorm, and soon realised that CoD might need to be treated like Kuja: You need different moves againest different characters.


Tentacles of Pain

CoD's Ground Tentacle attacks. Even though she only has the one: They count as three seperate attacks. Hereby also known as Ground 1, Ground 2 and Ground 3.

Ground 1: The quickest of the attacks, comes out quite fast. Hits them three times and can lead to chase. Low attack power.

Ground 2: Can also come out quite quickly. Probably the longest ranged BRV attack CoD has. Very quick, also causes Wall Rush.

Ground 3: Comes out quite slowly. Makes lightning bolts spawn where the oppoenet is. Very good for Counter Attack and comboing into [Anti-Air] Particle Beam.

No Attack: While no additional damage is done, it DOES cause Landing Lag (Meaning it can link into [Anti-Air]...)

Tentacles of Suffering

CoD's aerial tentacle attacks. Even though she only has the one BRV attack, it counts as three seperate attacks, Hereby known as Air 1, Air 2 and Air 3.

Air 1: Comes out ridiciously quickly. Can lead to chase. Can also combo into Air 2 if you space and time right. In unequips, this can lead to a quick break with criticals.

Air 2: The attack most CoD users spam. While it is her most damaging Brave Attack, and can shield againest projectiles (and can even combo with it self if done right), it also makes CoD a bigger hit box for Melee characters. (For example, Cloud only has to smack a tentacle to go into OV5.) Best used to reflect Projectiles and after a Riposte or Air 1.

Air 3: Seems like a bad attack in theory: CoD shoots out two small orbs for little damage. However very useful in counter attack situations: Plus the balls can cause landing lag allowing for combos.

HP Attacks

[Anti-Air]

This is perhaps her best attack. It comes out quickly, can abuse landing lag..

In Ex-Mode you can:

Combo into Tentacles of Pain (No Attack) and Ground 3
Combo into any Wall Rush move. (Including Ground 2, [0-Form] and [Feint])
Set up. For example if people think you're defenceless, they're very mistaken. You can use [Wrath] to cancel out of this attack and attack someone who tries to Brave attack you. You can also use [Feint] to escape.

Despite the name, it's just as useful on the ground than againest Aerials.

Would anyone dare disagree if I said that this attack is a Staple?

[Wide-Angle]

While these is no combo right now that uses [Wide Angle] (Unless it can Wall Rush, which point it can combo into [Anti-Air])

This move is attractive because it seems massive and seems if you can entrap an oppoenet. Unfortunality this isn't the case: An oppoenet can simply dodge forward out of the [Wide Angle].

However dodging forward may land them into an [Anti-Air]. so you may like to use this attack as a Set-Up rather than [Feint].

[Long Range]

Personally, I don't like this one. What can be covered by [Long Range] can be covered by [Fusiliade].

Many people tell me they use this to cover their long range options. Depending on where the oppoenet is: The tracking can either be mediocre or very good.

This can be comboed from Ground Three while in Ex-Mode. But you lose the surprise and basic shield you would gain from [Anti-Air] Also sometimes it'll simply miss. Chances are though: If they're far away, they'll also be to high to hit with [Long Range]

[Feint]

Although not a staple compared to [Anti-Air], [Feint] does live up to it's name. You can use it to dodge an attack and counter, you can use it to Wall Rush and you can use it to set yourself up.

Note that like most of Tiduses Dodge & ____ Moves, this doesn't have the Dodge frames, despite what the description puts. However it can move you out of harm's way and get a counter attack in.

Essentially use it to dodge while in Ex-Mode and you're in the middle of trying to do attacks.

[Wrath]

[Wrath] is essentially a High Guard in the form of Jecht Block/Bombard. It also has higher priorty than Firion's Shield Bash.

Just rememebr that after a dodge, you can't guard straight away. With [Wrath] however, you can.

[Wrath]'s greatest surprise however is that you can use it to cover your defences in Ex-Mode. The best example is in this video

YouTube- Dissidia Ad-Hoc Party: Cloud of Darkness Versus Jecht (Wedge) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxoAJbiTmVM)

However do note: Just because you HAVE [Wrath] doesn't mean you should ALWAYS use it. It is most of the time better to Block and let a Riposte Air 2 break your oppoenet.

The other problem with [Wrath] is that it IS avoidable. Try and avoid using it againest close projectiles, otherwise you'll end up getting horridenously punished.

It IS a good move. Just use it right. Otherwise you're dead.

[0-Form]

I like to call this the 'Braver' for Cloud of Darkness. It has almost the same range aswell. However it has a good amount of tracking aswell.

This move shouldn't be spammed. The lag time before and after the [0-Form] is enough for anyone to punish you. It's also a beast in Pandaemonium, as it can make you next to unapproachable.

People call [0-Form] a staple. I don't think it's as much as a staple as [Anti-Air]. It will most of the time cause Wall Rush damage. There's really not alot to say about this attack.

Oh: It can also reflect attacks such as the Emperor's Flare. =P

Fusillade

A VERY overestimated and also underestimated attack. In the JPN version, it was extremely powerful, but it was still an attack that left you extremely open. The Tracking and Range became extremely nerffed in the US version.

To be honest: I don't like it much. I use it when fighting againest Gabranth and perhaps one or two other mages. I prefer it over [Long Range], as this can actually be used in the air.

The good thing is if it hits, you can combo damn well. It leaves them completely open.

The bad news is: It can be blocked normally. It's one of the few HP attacks that CAN be blocked. So beware when using it againest ExDeath: That high guard can kill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcBW_mypBwc

Combine this with [Wrath] while in Ex-Mode, and you'll essentially make it harder for them to hit you. Much harder.

Aura Ball

I'm indifferent to this attack. It's an extremely good defencive attack that stops your oppoenets staying too close to you. It's blast also lasts sometime, so the oppoenet may run into it. Some people may dislike it and may think it's slow, but it can cause combos into Air 1 or Air 2.

[icyie04]

This thread is a little dead, isn't it. Sorry to revive it, but it's still a discussion thread.

So, do you CoD people prefer to fight in the air or on the ground? Anti-air alone is enough to pull me back to the ground and fight there, and Feint is an awesome move as well.

I think CoD can fight both on the air or on the ground whenever she wants to; for example, fight WoL/Garland/Firion in the air or Zidane on the ground (bad examples, I know).

May I just say so though: That first video shows off CoD's ex mode quite nicely. xD

[funkyman02]

I prefer the ground but since many people are aerial whores, I have to stick to the air. I find her Braves and HPs on the ground to be much more versatile than her HP ones.

[icyie04]

I personally prefer her ground tentacle moves over her air ones, but Air 2 after a block is devastating.

[funkyman02]

Well since I enjoy [Long Range] quite a bit, I like using Tentacles of Pain 2 and then following up with a [Long Range]. I just can't help but live the quirkiness of the insane homing capabilities of [Long Range] and I have caught more than one person off guard for using it point blank. She can do a full 360 if the opponent enjoys hovering above you.

[icyie04]

Do YOU control it or does it home automatically?

[tried42long]

Is Aura Ball effective on human players?

[icyie04]

Is Aura Ball effective on human players?

That largely depends on your opponent. If he's stupid enough to dash in, then you'll probably hit with it. Equip it anyway, IMO. xD

[HYNE]

Do YOU control it or does it home automatically?
Long Range's homing depends on the distance between you and your opponent. Long distance makes it go in a straight line, while close distance makes it go homing. Surprisingly good homing, if I may add.

Thing is, you will pewpew it when the opponent is farther away, but if they dash somewhere closer to you, Long Range will change it's type, it will suddenly home in on the opponent.

As for what I prefer, I prefer the air because I can go aggressive with usage of Air 1, Air 2, Wrath and sometimes even 0-Form. But I do like her ground too, she's got more mindgames there.

[Scott]

Long Range's homing depends on the distance between you and your opponent. Long distance makes it go in a straight line, while close distance makes it go homing. Surprisingly good homing, if I may add.

I've actually noticed it to turn around and hit the enemy from a near point blank dodge.

[Kraid]

When i've used Long Range at point blank, my opponent not only doesn't get hit by it, but the homing on the Long Range doesn't ever get to do the full 360 since I get hit. =( Which is why I avoid this attack unless againest a character like Gabranth or Kefka.

I ALWAYS much prefer Anti-Air when it comes to point blank since it comes much several times faster, and has a much quicker cooldown time. (But still it's enough to not WHIFF it as CoD is still fully open unless in Ex-Mode.)

I also prefer her Ground Braves to her Aerials. But her Aerials are STILL VERY GOOD. Air 1 and Air 2 are easy to mind game with (Air 1 can come out fast and can smack the opponent in the back/counter attack. Unequips this usually means a break.)

But Ground 2 and Ground 3 are my favourites. Ground 3 is a BRV to HP in Ex-Mode, and Ground 2 catches EVERYONE by surprise.

Not only that, but combined with OAD and 'ground running', you can mind game your aerial and ground attacks, making people wonder which one you're going to use.

[Scott]

I never seem to remember which BRV attacks are which of hers, which is precisely why I don't like to use her. I'm sure I could learn and she'd be enjoyable (Much more than Jecht).

[HYNE]

Her bravery attacks hurt surprisingly a lot. Her Air1 500ish crit damage makes me giggle every time. :P

[Lelouch()]

Her bravery attacks hurt surprisingly a lot. Her Air1 500ish crit damage makes me giggle every time. :P

not forgetting the added damage of Air2 ( about 1000 with crits if I'm not wrong)

[FFGuy]

My CoD tends to use Feint against melee (particularly characters like Cloud who has lag delay if he misses his attacks) and wide for blocking magic attacks (defensively played, rather than attack. Wrath can't block a volley after all) and as for brave attacks, her air 1 is my melee attacker, air 2 is my defense and air 3 is for mages. I don't often use her on the ground though.

Personally, a brave build is much better (at least for me, your playstyle may differ) than an EX build, simply because with CoD I find power>speed.

For air HP attacks I use 0 form up close and mages get a good taste of fusillade. Wrath is mostly used when in the air tbh, whether that's a good or bad thing is up for debate.

[Lelouch()]

a brave build is much better (at least for me, your playstyle may differ) than an EX build

Brave build? Do you mind explaining? Is it regen or a build which gains brave very fast.
And CoD's Ex mode is decent, most of her combos work only in Ex, other than ground3 -> anti air.


wide for blocking magic attacks (defensively played, rather than attack. Wrath can't block a volley after all) not really safe, the opponent has enough time to exploit's wide angle's lag and punish the CoD, though its a good tatic, it won't work on bartz who have mage and melee abilities =3

[FFGuy]

Brave Build for stuff like blocking, Bravery Regen, Bravery recovery, stage destruction to bravery etc

As for the lag time, that I agree on and I ony use it on the likes of Terra, Bartz (when using Wind Shear), and some Melee types that have lag in their attacks (such as Cloud's Braver)

Her EX is decent, I agree. I simply prefer the punishing damage you can dish out, especially with Fusillade or 0 form

[Rissole25]

Has anyone tried spamming Wrath while in EX?

[Lelouch()]

Has anyone tried spamming Wrath while in EX?

yes, after fusillade, I will spam warth to remove the long cooldaown whith chances of counterattacking any stray bravery attack, however, this has led to some unwanted Ex burts which was due to bad timing on my part =P

[Kraid]

Brave build? Do you mind explaining? Is it regen or a build which gains brave very fast.
And CoD's Ex mode is decent, most of her combos work only in Ex, other than ground3 -> anti air.

No.... Some combos that work outside of Ex are:

Tentacles of Suffering 1 -> Tentacles of Suffering X
Wrath -> Tentacles of Suffering 1 -> Tentacles of Suffering X

Ground 3 -> Anti-Air doesn't work except in Ex-Mode.

FFGuy: I love using Wrath spam in Ex-Mode. However I never use Fusillade except againest Gabranth and perhaps two other characters. (Fusiliade is asking for a HIT ME when used. Even in Ex-Mode + Wrath.)

[FFGuy]

Ya, you are a target after Fusillade, I almost never use it on Mages simply because their spells are normally faster (Kuja's Ultima springs to mind) unless of course they have poor long range (Forsaken Null?)

It's best used when very far away in open arenas, otherwise it's a death sentence really

[Kraid]

Ya, you are a target after Fusillade, I almost never use it on Mages simply because their spells are normally faster (Kuja's Ultima springs to mind) unless of course they have poor long range (Forsaken Null?)

It's best used when very far away in open arenas, otherwise it's a death sentence really

But CoD is better in enclosed spaces with her other attacks. Plus most people have enough time with Fusilliade to see it, FAD towards it then smash you in the face for using that attack. Fusilliade is usually ALWAYS a death sentence, even on open arenas.

Aura Ball isn't much better, but it doesn't get you punished like Fusillade and can be used as a better defence.

[FFGuy]

True enough, suppose it plays well for different arena types, 0 form and Feint being better for closed space arenas while Aura ball and Fusillade can (debatebly) be more effective in large arenas. If anything, in EX mode you could use Fusillade as a way to draw opponents in, similarly to Garland's blaze attack where you can counter cyclone from there.

[Christen]

What are the valid BRV->HP combos when CoD is in EX mode? Been trying to look for that.

[tried42long]

Ground 3 -> Anti Air.

[Hella-Bright]

Ground 3->Anti Air

Air 2-> O-From(works but not always)

those are all I know


True enough, suppose it plays well for different arena types, 0 form and Feint being better for closed space arenas while Aura ball and Fusillade can (debatebly) be more effective in large arenas. If anything, in EX mode you could use Fusillade as a way to draw opponents in, similarly to Garland's blaze attack where you can counter cyclone from there.
Aura ball is way better in close spaces, what are you talking about?

[Kraid]

Air 2-> O-From(works but not always)


Never. It may work in corners, but that's about it.

Ex-Mode combos:

Ground 1 -> Anti-Air (Need Wall)
Ground 2 -> Wall Crash -> Anti-Air
Ground 3 -> Anti-Air
Ground 0 -> Anti-Air (This is where you do nothing at all. This IS useful as sometimes online delay won't let you do Ground 3. Which has happened before.)
Ground 2 -> Wall Crash -> Feint
Anti-Air -> Anti-Air (Requires low ceiling. A higher ceiling can be used againest the 'Armoured' characters.)
Anti-Air -> Feint (Requires low ceiling.)
Ground 3 -> Long Range? (This sometimes work and sometimes doesn't.)

Aura Ball -> 0-Form
Fusiliade -> 0-Form
0-Form -> 0-Form (Is infinite if you do it at point blank. Other times you can get a 3-4 hit combo. Is not infinite againest Jecht or ExDeath.)

[Hella-Bright]

Never. It may work in corners, but that's about it.

Ex-Mode combos:

Ground 1 -> Anti-Air (Need Wall)
Ground 2 -> Wall Crash -> Anti-Air
Ground 3 -> Anti-Air
Ground 0 -> Anti-Air (This is where you do nothing at all. This IS useful as sometimes online delay won't let you do Ground 3. Which has happened before.)
Ground 2 -> Wall Crash -> Feint
Anti-Air -> Anti-Air (Requires low ceiling. A higher ceiling can be used againest the 'Armoured' characters.)
Anti-Air -> Feint (Requires low ceiling.)
Ground 3 -> Long Range? (This sometimes work and sometimes doesn't.)

Aura Ball -> 0-Form
Fusiliade -> 0-Form
0-Form -> 0-Form (Is infinite if you do it at point blank. Other times you can get a 3-4 hit combo. Is not infinite againest Jecht or ExDeath.)
Well arn't WE versed in CoD EX combos
and I have done it before without a corner so put that in your pipe and smoke it!

[funkyman02]

Well arn't WE versed in CoD EX combos
and I have done it before without a corner so put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Except that if anyone has controlled recovery, like they should, then it will almost never hit.

[Christen]

Haven't got to hit it on my plays because they always recover backwards.

[Hella-Bright]

Hey it HAS worked for me. I'm not saying that it does all the time.

[HYNE]

I'm finding Kuja to be an extremely hard matchup for CoD. Anyone else thinking the same?

It's like, he will draw the battle into midair, obviously; where the only thing I can basically do is Air1 and Wrath/Block, with Wrath/Block being not too reliable. Air2 is usable but quite situational. 0-Form will connect very rarely, you need to pressure Kuja so much until he makes a mistake. Also, if Kuja resorts to using pretty much just Remote Flare, Ultima and Seraphic Star, it's a huge pain.

I found myself in a better situation on some stages though, in Edge of Madness Kuja lost almost all of the advantages. On other stages, like Pandemonium and Kefka's Tower, it was still a bit hard, but it didn't take as much effort into pressuring. However, those stages can still be dangerous if Kuja is left unpressured, gracefully gliding over the area freely doing his acts of chaos.

I've had a couple of these matches and they were long, each like 4 minutes minimum. I will still have to do more research on this. I don't even know why I started with this particular matchup. It's not even a frequent matchup in the battles I usually do.

[Hella-Bright]

I acctually find fighting a Kuja kinda hard and kinda easy at the same time. If your talking about a CPU I usually keep my finger over square so I can be prepared to Wrath when needed. But when we get to talking about like Human Kuja's its more of a different story.

Though I havenever fought a Human Kuja so....yeah.

[Rissole25]

My advice is to stay above him. I don't think any of his attacks can hit you while your above him. I guess you could use Air1 mostly and Air2 sometimes. You could even use Air3 to stop him casting spells if your not close to him, but they probably wouldn't hit him anyway.

[HYNE]

I'm talking about human opponent, Hella-Bright. :p Though just now, you did remind me of Inward Chaos Kuja, who is sick, like totally.

Rissole25, staying above him won't do much, I think, as he can still punish you with Ultima, so 0-Form and Air3 are still out. I will try it out though, and see whether it will yield something. I wanted to mention that it was the best for me when we were on the same altitude, where I could see what he's doing (in hopes of him doing a blockable attack) and pressure him constantly.

I mean, CoD in this battle needs to be aggressive to the point of driving the Kuja opponent crazy, which is risky because you up the chance for your own mistake. This is not always the case, mind you, it's just the impression I got after a series of 10-20 matches of CoD vs. Kuja.

[HYNE]

I finally got used to having []: Wrath, []<-: Anti-Air and []->: Feint. I used to have AA on neutral but now that I switched it, it's easier to Wrath dodge punishing. I still need more practice with this setup, but I finally got the hang of it, had hell of a time adjusting to it.

On another note, I have a set for her in which I have Feint on both []<- and []->, it gives me a lot of movement freedom and an option for some sweet mindgames. Any thoughts on this?

[533787655464]

But then you can only have Wrath or Anti-air on the ground, and she really really needs both of them, If you need, just put it on [] and quickly press the movement button to where you want to go, taking up 2 spaces is pretty bad except for power-ap leveling

[Spike]

Having Feint on 2 moves is bad since even if you midngame that, You'll have lesser options in the end because you don't have that much attacks in your arsenal. You won't have enough room for Anti-air and Wrath if you place 2 feints. those 2 moves are very important for CoD IMO...

[HYNE]

Well, I have it for fun mostly, and while I do lose one attack, it's not such a huge loss since some of her attacks individually make a strong ground game, and a number of other characters take the fight into the air anyway. Guess it's just me then. :P

[Spike]

But it can help having different types of attacks against ground characters like Firion, Garland, Golbez (this fight is hard IMO).

[Hollowed]

I just had a thought. Fusillade would be great to pressure characters into the air, which would be useful against those with a strong ground but weak air game (Firion, Golbez, etc).

[Anonymous Brawler]

Sorry to ask such a noobish question, but are the tentacles attacks cancelables in Hp attacks WITHOUT the Ex-mode? The AI CoD did a ground1(first hit) to anti air

I have a replay if it cares

[UltimaFox]

The AI does it religiously, whereas humans can replicate it not very often.

[ArgyleNinja]

I use Aura Ball over Fusillade, partly because it's one of the few HP aerial attacks she has, partly because if I do it close enough to my opponent, I have them tripping over themselves trying to escape and/or counter it. I use Tentacles of Suffering 2, which I christened Thrash About, almost immediately after EX Countering(When you enter EX Mode to block an HP/Brave attack, one of my fave strategies, 'specially if I have a full EX gauge), so I can get some critical hits in, and if my opponent's brave is low enough, INSTA-BREAK!!!

Also, I use Wide-Angle Particle Beam simply because it's the coolest move in her arsenal for now. At least until I get 0-Form.

Her EX Burst command took me the longest to get familiar with. I have to let go JUST as it hits 119% to get it right for me. I don't trust the automatic command abilities. I save my PP for the speed and jump boosters, and the attacks. MAYBE Concentration for the characters who really need Brave to work right.

[Neo Bahamut]

Fussilade will get your opponents in the air, but they'll likely attack you. I only use it in positions where it's way too far for 0-Form which is, in my opinion, its best move. I have Wrath, but I usually don't use it, because I find it hard to pull off.

I guess I typically stick to the air, because its ground options aren't really that great. Long Range is decent, but I find it easy to side-step. Wide-Angle is...yeah. Anti-Air is good, but I wouldn't call it a "staple." I kinda find the revelation that it can be blocked to be a moot point, though, because I don't use Feint unless the opponent is already attacking.

The video spurred a question in me: Can you use CoD's EX effect to negate its attack at any old time, or just at the end of the attack?

[Spike]

IMO Anti-air is a staple because it has a very fast start-up and it rarely do I get opponents anticipating it (especially if you're not using it often). Fusillade only as harassment tools and not that good against those Air characters (they are more of a nuissance if they have FAD with them...)

[Kraid]

CoD has good options both on Ground and In Air.

On Ground: Anti-Air IS staple. CoD's ground game is quite easy to block, but mindgaming between the two will allow easy hits with Anti-Air. In Ex-Mode, this will be your main form of doing HP damage as it allows CoD with a ridiciously easy BRV -> HP combo.

The other options are then really your personal preference of choice. Wide Angle just plain sucks, Long Range if you feel it's good (Which I don't), Wrath for counter attacks + Ex-Mode allows you to continually attack and put you into the air without interupting your attacks and Feint for dealing with anticipitating attacks.

In the Air CoD's HP game goes down, but her Brave game goes up. Manipulating the brave attack between Air 1 and Air 2 is crucial to being able to use her. Plus her Air 1 allows her to combo to another Air 1 (Which usually puts them just out of reach a second time) OR Air 2. Chase is an amazing option for CoD users since you can infinitely chase aswell.

HP attack wise 0-Form is her best (Non-Wrath) attack. But it's pretty easily intercepted. Aura Ball gives her some defence and Fusillade gives pressure. But Fusillade is ALMOST ALWAYS LESS USEFUL.

Fusillade will only be useful againest characters that need to run away AND only useful in wide open arenas. It can also be decent againest Ground Control characters also. So effectively, Firion (Though it can be shield bashed iirc), Emperor, Golbez and Gabranth BUT only on open arenas. But even then they can intercept Fusillade, just not as easily.

CoD's Ex-Mode changes the cooldown time of her attacks. It can't INTERUPT her attacks, but it CAN make them so that as soon as CoD has finished casting it she can go back to attacking.

For Fusillade for example, it's as soon as she lets those Orbs go, for example.

[Neo Bahamut]

It's just kind of a thing with me that if I'm playing a character who uses entirely Kamehameha ripoffs, I try not to let them get right next to me before attacking. But I apparently find it useful, because I have it equipped. Not Wrath, though. I actually assumed Wrath was only an aerial ability because I don't have it on & double-checking is for the weak. Just like pants.

In my opinion, there's no major difference between ground CoD & air CoD besides 0-Form. I may exchange Fussilade for Aura Ball, though, since a compelling case has been made for it & Fussilade isn't nearly as difficult to evade as I remember.

[Proximately]

No major difference? I beg to differ. CoD has an amazing airgame, with fussilade you can trick your opponent into attacking you if you're able to judge that he won't have the time to attack you before the attacklag wears out and intercept him in order to combo with a bravery attack (which should break the opponent).
Not to mention that she then also covers a midrange braverygame in all directions.

I'd say that she's at her weakest while on the ground (except for some awesome HP attacks) and at her strongest in the air. She also has the ability to create a complete defence with her tentacles against attacks like Ultimecia's while in the air.

[Kraid]

No major difference? I beg to differ. CoD has an amazing airgame, with fussilade you can trick your opponent into attacking you if you're able to judge that he won't have the time to attack you before the attacklag wears out and intercept him in order to combo with a bravery attack (which should break the opponent).
Not to mention that she then also covers a midrange braverygame in all directions.

I'd say that she's at her weakest while on the ground (except for some awesome HP attacks) and at her strongest in the air. She also has the ability to create a complete defence with her tentacles against attacks like Ultimecia's while in the air.

... Where do I begin to ruin this whole entire argument?



with fussilade you can trick your opponent into attacking you if you're able to judge that he won't have the time to attack you before the attacklag

I forgot to mention that if people know they're not in range (and most the time they're not), they'll run away. Fusillade can also be blocked. Don't use Fusillade as an argument for how good CoD can be in the air because IT'S ONLY SLIGHTLY BETTER THAN WIDE ANGLE IN TERMS OF USABILITY.


attacklag wears out and intercept him in order to combo with a bravery attack (which should break the opponent).

The attack lag of Fusillade is what makes it so bad. It has a huge lag time even in EX. I've had ONE experience where I managed to use Fusillade to trick my opponent out of the many times I've actually had to use it. (And that was only because my friend insisted on going on Order of Santuary with Gabranth.)

Infact when I usually play CoD, I found I'm better ON THE GROUND. You need to mix up her attacks in order to do anything with her. Omni Air Dash gives her the ability to 'Ground Run' which allows her to still be at ground level at all time but use both Ground and Aerial attacks while on the ground.

[Proximately]

<.<
Right... Well, I can't argue with the fussilade point. I guess I was just trying to back it up, I accidentally managed to trick my opponent to attack while I was using it when he was out of range so... I guess I can't back up my arguement. xD

However, I still stand by that she's better in the air. Agreed that she's good on the ground but I guess we may just like it better on our separate areas (ground/air).

[Hella-Bright]

I personally use what attack seems to be right at the moment, depending on the opponent. More often then not I'll use the defalt attacks Anti-Air, Feint, O-Form, and Aura ball, which these work on most opponents. But I just like to swich up attacks for different opponents, dependng on how they play, or which attack I think will be best at the time. Just relying on those 4 attacks and not utalizeing say Long Range and Fusillade (Never wide angle...never ever wide angle...) is just not effective IMO.

[Neo Bahamut]

Couldn't whether it's better in ground or air simply be a matter of preference? If you have an easier time with the ground attacks, it wouldn't be hard to argue that it's better on the ground.

[533787655464]

It all really comes down to combos, damage, and if it is easy to hit with or not

[Anonymous Brawler]

The CPU is a cheating bastard! i was using Exdeath, the A.I. uses air 2 when I was over it, so I used High guard, but it instantly cancel it to fussilade and hits me!

[zeekybookydoog]

double-checking is for the weak. Just like pants.

Why hello there, Chris.

On topic, regarding [Fusillade], I've had the most success with it when I'm far away from AND directly above the opponent. It's difficult for them to run away from it or block it from that angle. Plus if it connects, I can easily combo into Air 1 or Air 2, or hell, even [0-Form]. I use a Sustained EX/BRV Recovery build on my CoD, so I find that I don't really need Aura Ball that much, since [Wrath] serves some of the same purposes.

[Spike]

Why hello there, Chris.

On topic, regarding [Fusillade], I've had the most success with it when I'm far away from AND directly above the opponent. It's difficult for them to run away from it or block it from that angle. Plus if it connects, I can easily combo into Air 1 or Air 2, or hell, even [0-Form]. I use a Sustained EX/BRV Recovery build on my CoD, so I find that I don't really need Aura Ball that much, since [Wrath] serves some of the same purposes.

directly above? I think people like zidane can vortex you comboing it to swift and tempest for HP damage. CoD itself can punish you even if she is below with Air2 while you are waiting for fusillade. WoL can hit you fair enough with rising buckler and combo it.... I think its best to use fusillade form afar. whats better is mindgaming aur ball than making yourself pretty open with fusillade....

[Kraid]

Way to much can punish, even far above. Infact Fusillade has enough Lag Time, even in Ex-Mode, for anyone to be able to move and STILL punish. If a character doesn't have a move that hits straight up, they have enough chance to move and use another move that can punish (I'm looking at you Rough Divide.)

Hell I think the only two moves that can't punish Fusillade are Starfall and Great Attractor.

[Hella-Bright]

Why would you ever use Fusillade against a Squall, you can't even use Aura ball against him.

I just think there are times for Fusillade and there are times for Aura ball. I don't like just sticking with Aura ball since it isn't very effective in some situations. It all depends on the situation.

[Kraid]

Why would you ever use Fusillade against a Squall, you can't even use Aura ball against him.

I just think there are times for Fusillade and there are times for Aura ball. I don't like just sticking with Aura ball since it isn't very effective in some situations. It all depends on the situation.

I stick with Aura Ball unless I'm going against Gabranth. Simple.

[rshadowkirby]

my opinion on fullsade particle beam

lol free hit

[Neo Bahamut]

Who's Chris?

It seems to me like the main problem with Fussilade is that all of the orbs come from behind the Cloud, for some odd reason.

[Spike]

NO. I think the problem is both start up and delay. Since in start up, CoD is very vulnerable and open to most attacks. Even not very fast ones since she finishes talking and thats when she just starts releasing her orbs. After that, she still has some bit of lag after. thats the main problem IMO. Don't get me wrong but its my opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong since I'm not a CoD mainer.

[Neo Bahamut]

Well, that too, but it would be a dickload more useful if the orbs came from around it. That way, they could hit characters that dashed towards it & they wouldn't all be absorbed in stages like Pandaemonium.

[Spike]

Wouldn't that make that attack unbalanced? She couldn't be punished if the orbs circled around her now would it? and besides I think fusillade still has its uses even though you're left open. If enough distance is given then it could be used. It can also be comboed in ex mode (correct me if I'm wrong on this one but the CPU does it to me back then...) into 0-form or air2.

[Neo Bahamut]

Not really. It would be the same number of orbs, with the same lag time, attack speed, & other parameters, just better spaced out.

Sure it has uses, especially at a distant, but it's risky & pretty much useless on certain stages.

I tend to do the thing that you describe, but it's REALLY risky, whether in EX Mode or not. Many times I have been saved simply by the grace of a retarded AI.

[Kraid]

Fusillade can be comboed into in Ex-Mode, but for that to happen the opponent has to run into Fusillade.

Like Innocence, if I see Fusillade while CoD is in Ex-Mode, I'm going to simply run away. Outside of Ex-Mode, I will attack her.

YouTube- Innocence and Fusillade (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcBW_mypBwc)

One of my favourite videos and shows why you should NEVER be in the position to use Fusillade. It only fools players who don't know the properties of Fusillade (Like my friend up there) or perhaps dumb AI.

There should NEVER be a reason to be hit by Fusillade. It's main tool is pressuring... but it's terrible at that aswell.

It IS useful however for making a Ex-Charging Gabranth run away. It's the closest thing you have with CoD to making Gabranth run apart from Long Range. This is why I change my moveset slightly.

In the Japanese Version, Fusillade was much better. However it was still TERRIBLE. Everyone complained because of the massive amount of Range it had in the Japanese version, but still it was a god awful attack. But it was harder to punish aswell.

But STILL I would NOT use it over Aura Ball these days.

[zeekybookydoog]

Who's Chris?

It seems to me like the main problem with Fussilade is that all of the orbs come from behind the Cloud, for some odd reason.

Nevermind. Someone I know says that a lot, but I see now you're in a different state.

One more situation just crossed my mind where Fusillade would be useful. CoD with a Full Ex gauge changes everything, barring when the opponent has a Full Ex as well.

And there are always ways to make yourself harder to punish like landing lag and SnL.

Barring anything else, it could be used for scouting to gauge the opponent's playing style.

[Kraid]

Nevermind. Someone I know says that a lot, but I see now you're in a different state.

One more situation just crossed my mind where Fusillade would be useful. CoD with a Full Ex gauge changes everything, barring when the opponent has a Full Ex as well.

And there are always ways to make yourself harder to punish like landing lag and SnL.

Barring anything else, it could be used for scouting to gauge the opponent's playing style.

Do you not even read my post?

[zeekybookydoog]

You speak of Aura Ball as if it's something godly. It's not. Anyone who sees Aura Ball coming is just going to run away from CoD. This is a BAD thing, because CoD's ranged game is rather lacking. The only times you're ever going to hit with it are in cramped stages or if the opponent dashes up to attack you. [0-Form] and [Wrath] already handle both of these situations, respectively. THIS is why I don't use Aura Ball, NOT because I think [Fusillade] is better.

[Kraid]

You speak of Aura Ball as if it's something godly. It's not. Anyone who sees Aura Ball coming is just going to run away from CoD. This is a BAD thing, because CoD's ranged game is rather lacking. The only times you're ever going to hit with it are in cramped stages or if the opponent dashes up to attack you. [0-Form] and [Wrath] already handle both of these situations, respectively. THIS is why I don't use Aura Ball, NOT because I think [Fusillade] is better.

Aura Ball is a better defensive move than Fusillade. If the opponent runs away from CoD that's fine. If the opponent hits you while doing Fusillade, that's BAD.

And I've been able to use Aura Ball in a much more effective way than Fusillade aswell. Sure the opponent runs away, but that's good in a sense that allows you some breathing room and space. An up close Aura Ball also REALLY hurts opponents who don't expect it and instead expect a 0-Form or Tentacles.

Aura Ball > Fusillade. Aura Ball still isn't amazing but it's better than Fusillade by a long shot. Especially since you'll NEVER hit Fusillade against a good player UNLESS they don't know the properties of it.

[zeekybookydoog]

Aura Ball is a better defensive move than Fusillade. If the opponent runs away from CoD that's fine. If the opponent hits you while doing Fusillade, that's BAD.

Which is EXACTLY why I only use it with a Full EX Gauge or in EX mode as a follow up attack. One time a CPU CoD hit me with [Wrath] and then followed up with [Fusillade]. There was no way I could punish from my position, and I'm not sure I would have escaped had I not been playing as Onion Knight at the time.

[Kraid]

Which is EXACTLY why I only use it with a Full EX Gauge or in EX mode as a follow up attack. One time a CPU CoD hit me with [Wrath] and then followed up with [Fusillade]. There was no way I could punish from my position, and I'm not sure I would have escaped had I not been playing as Onion Knight at the time.

Do you not even READ my posts FULLY? CPU does not matter. No SMART PERSON will EVER stay near a CoD while she is in Ex-Mode, let alone... ESPECIALLY if she has Fusillade.

[Neo Bahamut]

Do you not even READ my posts FULLY? CPU does not matter. No SMART PERSON will EVER stay near a CoD while she is in Ex-Mode, let alone... ESPECIALLY if she has Fusillade.

You know, for someone who likes to complain about people not reading your posts, you missed a fairly critical (& obvious) detail:

He wasn't saying he used it on the CPU, he was saying that the CPU did an impressive combo on him using it.

All other aspects of the argument aside, if "no smart person" would do that, then you essentially just said "the only reason that worked on you is because you're stupid."

So...yeah.

[Kraid]

You know, for someone who likes to complain about people not reading your posts, you missed a fairly critical (& obvious) detail:

He wasn't saying he used it on the CPU, he was saying that the CPU did an impressive combo on him using it.

All other aspects of the argument aside, if "no smart person" would do that, then you essentially just said "the only reason that worked on you is because you're stupid."

So...yeah.

But Wrath-> Fusillade is too slow and is NOT even a combo. If you're falling for that while CoD has full Ex-Mode and you're up againest CPU you KNOW it's going to be using Fusillade so you DON'T do that.

I wasn't missing any detail at all. I chose to ignore something that won't ever be done against humans because it will never HAPPEN against anyone unless they don't know the properties of Fusillade. I never said the guy was stupid.

I can give you several reasons why Aura Ball is better than Fusillade.

1. Explodes anytime
2. Better in Enclosed Arenas which is where the Cloud of Darkness shines anyways.
3. Ex-Cancellable (This is AMAZING for Mind Games and is even better than Ex-Mode Fusillade.)
4. Can be used for a surprise attack outside of Ex-Mode.

Fusillade doesn't have any of these going for it. Aura Ball is STILL a horrible move, but it's no where NEAR as bad as Fusillade and has MANY more uses. Aura Ball can also do the same comboes Fusillade can so aswell in Ex-Mode like Aura Ball -> 0-Form.

[TKG09]

what about ditching both for some extra CP? 20 CP could easily mean another critical

/being a n00b

[Spike]

what about ditching both for some extra CP? 20 CP could easily mean another critical

/being a n00b

Well Its better IMO to have Aura Ball for more mindgames given to you opponent. Also, IMO CoD's only needs Sneak and Riposte (correct me on this Kraid) for Crits. She could well give more challeneg having more HP attacks since it is her game.

[Kraid]

Well Its better IMO to have Aura Ball for more mindgames given to you opponent. Also, IMO CoD's only needs Sneak and Riposte (correct me on this Kraid) for Crits. She could well give more challeneg having more HP attacks since it is her game.

Riposte is always good for CoD due to the fact that it makes a difference from just counter HP damage or a break and counter HP damage.

Sneak OR Counter attack is useful for her. Sneak because Air 1, Air 2 and Ground 3 can activate it quite easily. Counter because Air 1, Air 2, Ground 1, Ground 2 or Ground 3 can also activate them easily.

But remember that Counter Attack is like an 85% chance of activating or something while Sneak is 100%... I think. At the end of the day for the Counter V Sneak attack argument, use what you feel would be the best option for her.


what about ditching both for some extra CP? 20 CP could easily mean another critical

/being a n00b

I did originally think about this... but in the end the more options CoD has the better. This however leads up to the question of Aura Ball V Fusillade in my opinion. I STILL feel as if I'm the only one who feels Aura Ball is the correct answer 99% of the time. But don't get me wrong: Aura Ball is at least a semi-decent move compared to Fusillade which either will get you hit or will never hit.

Finally what convinced me off keeping Aura Ball/Fusillade instead of nothing over say another critical is because she already CAN get as much out of criticals + Snooze and Lose really easily.

[533787655464]

Aura ball is sexy when it sets up advancing perimeters and they all explode in the opponents face.

[Cookies]

I like her aura sphere move. That' pretty much all the input I have for this because I've played as her twice to get her to level 100 and that was pretty much it. Although she wins points for being the closest character to having visible boobs.

[Spike]

But remember that Counter Attack is like an 85% chance of activating or something while Sneak is 100%... I think. At the end of the day for the Counter V Sneak attack argument, use what you feel would be the best option for her.



I did originally think about this... but in the end the more options CoD has the better. This however leads up to the question of Aura Ball V Fusillade in my opinion. I STILL feel as if I'm the only one who feels Aura Ball is the correct answer 99% of the time. But don't get me wrong: Aura Ball is at least a semi-decent move compared to Fusillade which either will get you hit or will never hit.

Finally what convinced me off keeping Aura Ball/Fusillade instead of nothing over say another critical is because she already CAN get as much out of criticals + Snooze and Lose really easily.

Don't feel that way Kraid. hehe I also feeel Aura Ball is the more correct answer about 90% of the time though :D. Yeah aura ball gives more options than having non for crits since Hp is her main game and makes her more of a threat to life (i.e. bane of life)

For CA v SA. Is it really 85% for CA? I think CA and SA both have 50%? or is this more to that Kraid?

[Cookies]

Kraid is scary when he's arguing about his favourite characters O.O But I have to agree, aura ball is much better than fusillade really, I think.

[ShineThatLight]

For CA v SA. Is it really 85% for CA? I think CA and SA both have 50%? or is this more to that Kraid?

He was talking about the likelihood that they happen in battle, not the amount of crits they proc.

[Neo Bahamut]

Hooray for deleted posts! That's cool, I was done anyway.

Anyway, Aura Ball is clearly the answer close-range, but what if the opponent likes to play keep away? Then wouldn't Fusillade be at least the better of the 2?

[Cookies]

Hooray for deleted posts! That's cool, I was done anyway.

Anyway, Aura Ball is clearly the answer close-range, but what if the opponent likes to play keep away? Then wouldn't Fusillade be at least the better of the 2?

Either that or alot of cheating. Or not playing as CoD.

[Kite]

Why do you need to do anything when the opponent is playing keep away?

[ying_xiong]

Hooray for deleted posts! That's cool, I was done anyway.


lol, what did they delete?


I honestly prefer nothing over Fusillade, b/c the range is horrendous and perfoming it is easily punishable. I do agree Aura Ball is better, but it's one of those conditional HP attacks where you could go plenty of matches without ever having to use it. It all depends on how you play your CoD.

[Neo Bahamut]

Kite: Can't win the battle if you don't actually hit them. I honestly might change Fusillade out for Aura Ball, I'll have to dick around with it some more & see how I feel, but my main point is that Aura Ball is useless at long range & Fusillade is useless at short range.

Ying_Xiong: Me being a dick. Reposting something that was deleted is just asking for trouble, so I'll fill you in via PM.

[Kite]

And they cant win a battle if they dont actually hit you. If all they are doing is dashing around, why do anything?

[Neo Bahamut]

Some characters have long range HP attacks.

[Kite]

And they are going to win by spamming easy to dodge hps?

[Neo Bahamut]

Assuming they're ass enough not to use any additional strategies, probably not.

[Kraid]

If a character has a long range HP attack, it'll probably hit you if you try and counter with either Long Range or Fusillade.

[Neo Bahamut]

True enough. So, what do you do in that situation?

[Kraid]

True enough. So, what do you do in that situation?

Chase and rush them down of course. CoD is amazing when she forces upclose. It's hard to explain but she can handle most long range characters nicely.

[Neo Bahamut]

Don't you stand at risk of getting an HP attack to the face if you do that?

[Kraid]

Don't you stand at risk of getting an HP attack to the face if you do that?

You can pretty much react to all HP attacks with CoD's Tentacles.

[Neo Bahamut]

React to an HP attack...with a Brave attack.

[Kraid]

React to an HP attack...with a Brave attack.

Most if not all HP attacks take slightly longer to activate than most brave attacks. It's common knowledge and I don't know why you would basically repeat what I said in a way that implies sarcasm.

[Hella-Bright]

I think he's just confused to why anyone would react to an HP attack with a BRV attack. While her first tentacle attacks are her fastest so its easy to just attack them before they attack you, or you can dodge and then try to attack again. I mean thats pretty simple as well Opponent HP Attack > Dodge >Tentacle to the face.

OOOR Neo doesn't really get the lag time between CoD's attacks, or the ammout of lag it takes to activate one, expacially in the air, though I could just be throwing random things out there...

[Kraid]

HP Attack > Dodge > Attack doesn't work on some HP attacks like Heaven's Light due to the ridiculously low cool down time it has. But almost all HP attacks have a high start up that can be intercepted with Tentacles (Even like Free Energy.)

[Hella-Bright]

Verrry true, but I always get hit by free energy anywayyy~ so I just run from it :3, BUT STILL TRUE.

[Neo Bahamut]

Most if not all HP attacks take slightly longer to activate than most brave attacks. It's common knowledge and I don't know why you would basically repeat what I said in a way that implies sarcasm.

'Cause I've used that strategy before. With Oblivion. And it doesn't have the highest success rate in the world.

[Kraid]

'Cause I've used that strategy before. With Oblivion. And it doesn't have the highest success rate in the world.

Because the rules for CoD will apply with the same rules of Sephiroth.

But the fact you said it works just proves it WORKS. Just work on your timing.

[Neo Bahamut]

Oh, I know it works. I just have a tendency to go, "That was stupid, why the Hell did I do that?" after ambitious moves like that.

It just doesn't seem to me as though chasing someone across a stage while they're charging an HP attack, loosing a Brave attack, & hoping against hope that you don't get nailed is a very safe strategy.

[Kraid]

Oh, I know it works. I just have a tendency to go, "That was stupid, why the Hell did I do that?" after ambitious moves like that.

It just doesn't seem to me as though chasing someone across a stage while they're charging an HP attack, loosing a Brave attack, & hoping against hope that you don't get nailed is a very safe strategy.

It's not the safest strategy: It's the best strategy.

The safest would be Omni Air Dashing away from the opponent forever because then they will never hit you.

[Hella-Bright]

It's not the safest strategy: It's the best strategy.

The safest would be Omni Air Dashing away from the opponent forever because then they will never hit you.
And that strategie just pisses EVERYONE off...

Run run run. D:<

[Spike]

'Cause I've used that strategy before. With Oblivion. And it doesn't have the highest success rate in the world.

Why don't you use Sephiroth's SC? Its much faster in start up than Oblivion. Sure oblivion has vertical range while SC doesn't much but in a same coordinate plane, SC will help you more.

Same goes for CoD for intercepting HP attacks with fast start up tentacles like Air1 which has fast start up.

[Neo Bahamut]

I don't have SC equipped. And Oblivion is pretty damn fast.

[Spike]

SC has 17F start up and Oblivion has 127F start up so you might want to include that in interrupting Hp attacks. \

For CoD, Tentacles of Suffering has 13F start up and her air1 has +4F so all in all with mid range, she can interrupt Hp attacks with her Air 1 BRV attack with 17F (most Hp attacks are much slower than that. Free energy has 25F while Hatred is 15F. They maybe the fastest and you might want not to interrupt them but it can still be possible. Other Hp attacks can be interrupted since they are much slower than 17F.)