Squall vs ______

[Spyder]

Have any problems facing a certain character or player? Well then, address them here. We'll dissect their strategies and make sure you won't fall for the same old tricks. (Or at least we'd hope so. ;P)

I guess I'll start. After months of playing this game..........I STILL can't dodge Terra's Flare. No matter what I do, how I dodge, how I jump and dash away, I will still get hit. :eek:

From what I gather, Terra's flare is chargeable, and so the player controls when to let loose the fury. I've managed to "guess" at some points and get a lucky dodge. Sometimes I rage through it with Rough Divide, reflect back with a Blasting Zone, or simply avert it by interrupting Terra with a beat fang.

I would like to know if there is anyway of knowing when Terra lets the Flare go. And if its possible to tell if it will be a fast or a slow moving Flare.

[Kite]

Squall vs All guard and high guard spamming Exdeath

[icyie04]

^ If he spams it, doesn't he have a delay time between spams? Can't you get him in between?

[Kite]

By spam, I mean he uses it every time he sees me attacking, and Im always being blocked, squall just isnt my Exdeath counter

[NeroMD]

Have any problems facing a certain character or player? Well then, address them here. We'll dissect their strategies and make sure you won't fall for the same old tricks. (Or at least we'd hope so. ;P)

I guess I'll start. After months of playing this game..........I STILL can't dodge Terra's Flare. No matter what I do, how I dodge, how I jump and dash away, I will still get hit. :eek:

From what I gather, Terra's flare is chargeable, and so the player controls when to let loose the fury. I've managed to "guess" at some points and get a lucky dodge. Sometimes I rage through it with Rough Divide, reflect back with a Blasting Zone, or simply avert it by interrupting Terra with a beat fang.

I would like to know if there is anyway of knowing when Terra lets the Flare go. And if its possible to tell if it will be a fast or a slow moving Flare.

You mean meltdown? Just dash towards Terra and dodge behind it. After that you can pop in a beat fang. It's kinda a reflex move. You need to know Terra's meltdown by feeling is what i mean.

[Spyder]

You mean meltdown? Just dash towards Terra and dodge behind it. After that you can pop in a beat fang. It's kinda a reflex move. You need to know Terra's meltdown by feeling is what i mean.

Yeah, the meltdown. The dashing sometimes works, but if the player is expecting you to do just that he can simply charge it longer. And Terra keeps on tracking the target before letting go.

But I guess you're right about the feeling. Also knowing how your opponent plays Terra is helpful too. Guess I'll just have to face more Terra's in order to get the hang of it.


As for Exdeath's spamming all guard, those are one of the easiest Exdeath's to beat. It's the patient Exdeaths who you need to worry about.

Squall has such fast brave attacks that you can slip an attack through before he is able to let go of the button to activate all guard. After getting Exdeath nervous about Squall's quick brave attacks, you can pop in a random aerial/fated circle. From habit, he should activate all guard early, and the HP attack should hit him during recovery.

The best method of beating any exdeath is to fooling them into using the all guard needlessly. It's not an infallible move.

[Kite]

sounds really complicated

[Keiya]

Against Terra, you have to know the timing of Meltdown. In the US version, you see her charging it, I'd say go into long range (enough so that an uncharged Meltdown will not hit you), and then wait a bit. If she tries to unleash a charged Meltdown, just pop up an Aerial Rough Divide. You should go through the fireball, and if you time it correctly, she's still in "firing" animation and she'll eat your RD.

How to guess between charged and uncharged? She'll start speaking right before she releases the charged one. Also, if you're in the range I'm talking about when she's firing Meltdown, she can only hit you with the charged one.

Furthermore, remember that annoying Blizzaga? A well-time Heel Crash in the US version totally stops it cold (pardon the pun).

As for Exdeath, I suggest following Spyder's tips. Furthermore, in the US version, a well-time Heel Crash will stagger both Delta Attack and High Guard, and Rough Divide will crush it, even if the player deactivates it (High Guard takes a loooooooong time to recover). Don't try the same with All Guard though, but Fated/ Aerial Circles are your best friends there.

As a last tip against Exdeath, he's only godly if he blocks something. If you just stand there and bait Exdeath to attack first, then you destroy his game.

One really annoying matchup for Squall (or for anyone else in that matter), is Kuja. I found that the only reliable way to beat him is to always stay above his head, and wait for him to whiff before wailing on him. Any tips?

And finally, NEVER, EVER use Mystic Flurry against a grounded Firion who is not staggered/stunned/paying attention. Two words: Shield Bash.

[Spyder]

How to guess between charged and uncharged? She'll start speaking right before she releases the charged one. Also, if you're in the range I'm talking about when she's firing Meltdown, she can only hit you with the charged one.


This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Keiya! =D Hopefully with the US version, I will have an easier time with Terra. With the aerial rough divide and the fast dashes, I won't be as nervous going into the air as I usually am whenever battling Terra in the JP.


As for Frioniel, I wouldn't suggest using any magic against him. Most of Squall's magic is easily blocked, and Frioniel in particular can let loose a world of hurt after a well-timed Shield Bash. I would suggest having an all-physical move list. It gets many Frioniel players nervous and they end up over abusing the shield bash like many Exdeath's players abusing the all guard. This leaves Frioniel vulnerable and open to a quick punishment.

[Izzah]

Got a couple friends on Xlink that I'm having serious trouble with.

For starters, I have no idea how to approach Bartz' mid-air game. Beatrush is utterly ineffictive due to his Windshear that cancels pretty much all my bp attacks and drags me in. Keeping him grounded is easy, since he rarely strays away from LeadAxe-Souleater, easily countered.

Next is Kuja, who seems to give alot of people trouble as I've read. With him, I have no way of predicting when he's gonna throw in an hp attack while he's ranged and wrecking my brave. My only option to keep him on his guard at mid-range is magic bullet. It's always a chore to get in close, he's always hovering near the ceiling.

On an unrelated note: I still haven't found a way to make Revolver Drive work for me in almost any fights... maybe its my timing.

[Spyder]

Squall has a better air game then he did before, so don't rely on his beat fang if it's not working out. Try relying more on his Heel Drop. You can dodge out of it if you see Bartz using Windshear, and then punish him with a (very well) timed Aerial Circle from above, or an Aerial Rough Divide if you have some distance. Only use Beat Fang if you are very close to him. Beat Fang lands very quickly, so he won't be able to activate his Windshear fast enough. Also try mixing it up with dashes. Dash towards him and out to have him Windshear and then punish him. Then mix it up by dashing towards him and using beat fang or heel drop.

As for Kuja, what comes to mind is to use multi air slide or the multi dash to get behind him. A lot of Kuja's attacks are frontal, so I wouldn't suggest you to charge at him. He is very open when doing any type of HP attack. Some of his HP attacks allow you to dodge out of it and land and Aerial Rough Divide.

[Izzah]

Also try mixing it up with dashes. Dash towards him and out to have him Windshear and then punish him. Then mix it up by dashing towards him and using beat fang or heel drop.

Luring out Windshear works well as I just found out on some max level CPU's. Heeldrop works well with timing, even though I still cant manage to stop his Hp attack before it starts with beatfang.

The whole "lure him into windshear with a backwards dash" thing is pure win though. I'll let you know how it turns out, maybe even post a video or two.

[Keiya]

You need to understand the timing of Windshear. If he throws it far too frequently, it'll expose the big lag it has at the end. Basically, dodge away from it until it's near the end, and then act when Bartz stops spinning. If you can stand far enough from it, you can Aerial Rough Divide him out of it, or, if you have your timing down, actually hit him just as he stops spinning. Aerial Circle's a little more tricky; you have to time it a little bit before he stops spinning, so that he won't dodge, and eat the HP attack. As for Beat Fang, position yourself close to him, and then let him have it once he stops. Or if you're right next to him in the air, Beat Fang outprioritizes Windshear.

You have even more options if he does this close to the ground: Blasting Zone or Revolver Drive when he's close to ending Windshear, or Thunder Barret/Upper Blues/Solid Barrel just as soon as he finishes the attack.

Several hundred sessions with the "Varied" difficulty Bartz in Duel Coliseum has taught me how to get the timing down (the one in Pandaemonium, with 9999 BRV, 1 HP, Zantetsuken's you as soon as the battle starts, and then spams Windshear afterwards).

Kuja's one of Squall's worst matchups, but it's still pretty winnable, thanks to his new abilities. At a range, his HP attack of choice is Ultima. The important thing is to learn Ultima's timing, and then FAD to him with Beat Fang to interrupt or you can dodge the attack, and then use Aerial Rough Divide (if you're fast enough, just use Aerial RD as soon as he initiates it, and you'll sail towards him even before he lands Ultima). Heel Crash is an excellent way to interrupt his BRV attacks if you can get the timing right.

Finally, Revolver Drive works best against opponents near ground or on the ground after they try to land an attack with a medium to high lag. The best way to land it is to run (not dodge) away from the attack, and then initiate Revolver Drive close the the opponent ending the attack. Take for example, Sephiroth's Octaslash: dodge out of the way until you can run away from the slashes, and then initiate Revolver Drive right just as the final slash misses you. Of course, this tactic requires a lot of flat ground, but fights are almost always carried out in such areas, aren't they (Edge of Madness, Order's Sanctuary, World of Darkness)?

In the end, all I can say is PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and learn the timing of attacks. This is important for all characters, but it's even more important for Squall, since landing his HP attacks depend on your ability to expose openings.

Note: Dang, Spyder beat me to it, haha. And thanks for the tips against Kuja.

By the way, should we make a "Landing HP Attacks" Guide for Squall?

[Izzah]

Revolver drive is, as everyone's told me, an issue of timing. I'm getting alot of success with grounded, patient characters with predictable attacks (Firion is who I started to master the timing with).

Spyder and Keiya's strategies for the kuja fight are a bit counter-intuitive to eachother, but I take it that the best interrupt for ultima, his main source of hp dmg in our fights, is an aerial RD with the timing just before he backward dashes to initiate it. Kuja's brave attacks aren't bothersome as long as I can place myself out of his direct front (easier said than done though, the Kuja I'm fighting is...very...mobile...).

[Spyder]

Just be patient with Kuja. If you are having trouble landing any of Squall's brave, just take stroll and keep away from him. This will usually inspire many Kuja's to try and hit you with Ultima. Dash towards him to get away from Ultima's range and pop in an aerial rough divide. If you want to rack up some brave, that is also a good time to charge him and get away with a beat fang.

If Kuja's brave attacks are not bothering, than you are pretty much all set. All of Kuja's HP attack can punished with a rough divide. Dodge/Dash out of range, and punish with an Aerial Rough Divide. Don't forget that with the Aerial Rough Divide, you can pass through Kuja's HP attack completely and hit him during the execution. Try it on his Flare Star.


By the way, should we make a "Landing HP Attacks" Guide for Squall?

I was thinking about dividing his Move List analysis into two parts. One for his Brave and the other for his HP attacks. That way we can have a much more extensive guide on Squall's HP attacks. But maybe an actual separate guide might be better, so that we can solely discuss the strategies rather than the basic properties. Good thinking.

[Izzah]

An in-depth analysis on the timing and placement of Squall's hp moves would greatly help a ton of Squall players who are still rough around the edges. I'm probobly not alone in saying that I'd really like to see a guide like that. I could even contribute to that if necessary, but it's best left to the experienced.

When you have some time, get to it. :)

[Keiya]

I'll work on it if you want, Spyder. But of course, everyone will pitch in once I put the beta down.

[Advent-EVA]

Have some fun grinding your stuff in the Colosseum ^^ That's what I did. Some friend card codes can really help you out as well when you hit level 100, such as the Fusoya one; you can easily get the Adamant chains set, which has been somewhat buffed in my opinion, boosting your BRV by 30% of its base value everytime you execute a successful dodge.

[Keiya]

Thanks for the heads-up on the Adaman Gear. I didn't see that the Fusoya card was already released. This should make everything easier...

I want to make sure we're all in the same page here, though:

- Squall's HP Attacks shine when use defensively, not offensively.
- By defensively, I mean they all have highly protective capabilities, as well as high priorities over most HP Attacks in the game (especially the Divides and the Circles), which makes them win over other HP attacks most of the time.
- The key to landing his HP attacks without the help of EX Block is to learn the priorities and the openings of the opponent's attacks, and then expose them with his HP Attack's abilities. While it's true for everyone, it's more important for Squall since his ability to hit with an HP Attack depends on your ability to read your opponent's attacks.

[icyie04]

I'm having a hard time fighting Garland, to be honest.

His EX mode is beast, and even when he attacks normally it's hard. You can't interrupt with beat fang in the air, his attacks are hard to block, and his Lance Charge is absolutely painful if I DO try to block. And then there's Blaze and Cyclone, though that's easily countered.

He's the only character that I'm actually scared of since he can actually break a squall easily, with the proper crits.

[K´Genesis]

I'm having a hard time fighting Garland, to be honest.

His EX mode is beast, and even when he attacks normally it's hard. You can't interrupt with beat fang in the air, his attacks are hard to block, and his Lance Charge is absolutely painful if I DO try to block. And then there's Blaze and Cyclone, though that's easily countered.

He's the only character that I'm actually scared of since he can actually break a squall easily, with the proper crits.

In the NA version, his ground game has been considerately buffed. But his air game is still the same, slow and readable.

Take the battle to the air. This way, you can outclass him in every aspect:

- Squall is faster
- Has more priority
- Attacks faster
- Garland´s pattern is readable
- "Fishing" does not work, since Rough Divide breaks through Tornado
- Garland can´t infinite you in the air

If he stays on the ground, bait him with Heel Crush. If he charges at you, just keep sharp, although a good Garland will never go offensive. Eventually, he´ll have to go to the air, because his ground
HP game sucks.

[icyie04]

But his air brave game is hard to block unless you go closer, which will lead to you getting hit. ANd if you wait for his attacks to finish, he can dodge away.

[K´Genesis]

To avoid Lance Bullet, just keep yourself at the same level of Garland´s. Never stay on top.
Bardiche is fast, but Beat Fang is faster.
Chain Bump is laughable as a stand-alone, there are visual and audio cues. And since he can´t fish Squall, it shouldn´t be a problem. You can easily block on reaction.

And you don´t need to dodge him too much, go for the blocks.

[icyie04]

I suck at air blocking, I guess now's the time to practice o.o

[Statistic]

I have problems versing Kuja and Golbez. About all honestly. Golbez is my main problem. >.<;

[Spyder]

I have problems versing Kuja and Golbez. About all honestly. Golbez is my main problem. >.<;

What exactly is giving you the trouble? Be a little more specific.

For now, I can only offer general advice.

For Kuja, try getting behind him. Most of Kuja's attack's are frontal, so if you are able to dash past and behind him, you might have an opportunity for a counterattack. Despite Kuja being a magic user, do keep in mind that he staggers on some of his brave attacks, so don't be afraid to block. All of his HP attacks can be punished by a well timed aerial Rough Divide, so make sure you use it to punish.

For Golbez, one rule I learned the very first time I fought a Golbez is: never ever let him get above you. Make sure you always have him in you're sights. His Genesis Rock will hit you if you are right below him. Golbez has quick-short ranged attacks--similar to Squall--all which throw you into some contraption behind you. With this said, do not dodge backwards. I would recommend to stay at mid-distance and try to bait a move out of him and then go in with a beat fang. Don't linger to close to him; his attacks come out quick and Genesis Rock hits almost instantly if you are in close proximity. Also remember, that Squall's aerial Rough Divide goes through his Genesis Rock.


This is as general as I can get. Hope this helps.

[K´Genesis]

I think I can also help with that.


Kuja:

Some of his aerial BRV can guard-crush. Most likely, a good Kuja player will ALWAYS harass you with those. So, be prepared to dodge a lot.
But, like Spyder said, Kuja weak spot is his back. Even if you can get below him, you´re in a good position to strike, though. Dash a lot, but be careful about those guard-crushing magics. And try to remain in mid-range, Kuja also has a good close-range game, although you can block it. If you can get him in a Beat Fang, try pressuring him, so you can control the BRV pool.
Ultima is now nearly unpunishable, since Kuja can move while casting it and he moves fast enough to avoid Rough Divide, so use it carefully and only to approach him, but do not take too long to do it or he´ll punish you after Ultima.
His other weak spot is Flare Star. If you can avoid it, free HP attack for you. Right after it explodes, Kuja freezes. That´s when you Rough Divide him. The timing is not that strict, so take the opportunity.


Golbez:

Each Genesis Rock equals free Rough Divide, remember that.
A good Golbez knows this and won´t use it at all(his HP Links are plenty), but if you happen to get lucky, go for it. His aerial game is very close-ranged, take advantage of that. Yours is faster and has more range. Again, a good Golbez won´t rely that much on aerial game, but it´s much more common than relying on Genesis Rock. He´ll eventually have to hop a little on the air.
For his ground game, since Squall can´t go long-range, you should go dead close-range, to the point of being able to hit with Solid Barrel. Golbez can´t do much either. Whatever you do, DON´T FIGHT HIM AT MID-RANGE. Back away from him if you see yourself in this situation, if only to rush back at close-range. His attacks are slow, you can dash all of them on reaction and Beat Fang him.
In my POV, Squall is one of Golbez´s worst match-ups. Just practice pressure and you´ll be fine.

[NeroMD]

Got a couple friends on Xlink that I'm having serious trouble with.

For starters, I have no idea how to approach Bartz' mid-air game. Beatrush is utterly ineffictive due to his Windshear that cancels pretty much all my bp attacks and drags me in. Keeping him grounded is easy, since he rarely strays away from LeadAxe-Souleater, easily countered.

Next is Kuja, who seems to give alot of people trouble as I've read. With him, I have no way of predicting when he's gonna throw in an hp attack while he's ranged and wrecking my brave. My only option to keep him on his guard at mid-range is magic bullet. It's always a chore to get in close, he's always hovering near the ceiling.

On an unrelated note: I still haven't found a way to make Revolver Drive work for me in almost any fights... maybe its my timing.


You can safely say i'm a Heel crush spammer. I use Heel crush to have reasonable distance with the enemy. If he uses that crappy windmill of his you can cancel it out right away and punish him with Rough Divide.

As for Kuja, Use heel crush to gain in on your opponent, all of his range attacks is dashable and his energy burst is aswell dashable too.He may use ultima but you can go trough Ultima with Rough Divide even though you may miss but you won't get hit by his ultima.


REvolver Drive has a fast start up and has high priority which can go trough some HP attacks such as Cecil's Dark Flame.

[Spyder]

Whatever you do, DON´T FIGHT HIM AT MID-RANGE. Back away from him if you see yourself in this situation, if only to rush back at close-range. His attacks are slow, you can dash all of them on reaction and Beat Fang him.
In my POV, Squall is one of Golbez´s worst match-ups. Just practice pressure and you´ll be fine.

Seems we are at a disagreement. xD

One problem I noticed I have with Golbez is that I can't block his short-ranged brave attacks on reaction. So I try to stay a little away from his range. Guess, it's a bad idea.

And I went up against a lot of floaty Golbezes. They don't like staying on the ground. :/ And those type of Golbezes give me the worst trouble for some reason. Am I forgetting something simple here? If so, Genesis, do tell. I'd like to be able to say that Squall is the worst matchup for Golbez, as well. :D

[Ckarasu]

I've said this before, but the easiest way to beat a Kuja is to choose a place with ceilings and walls. He isn't so mobile in places like Kefka's Tower, as there are obstacles and walls preventing him from escaping all the time. Not a foolproof idea, but it can make it easier to pin him down.

[K´Genesis]

Ok, I see what you´re saying.
I also think I know what the problem seems to be, because that´s a situation we Squall players get into a lot. But I might be wrong, though.


Seems we are at a disagreement. xD

One problem I noticed I have with Golbez is that I can't block his short-ranged brave attacks on reaction. So I try to stay a little away from his range. Guess, it's a bad idea.

Here you mean his aerial short-range, right?
Indeed, it´s very fast because of that uppercut he does before summoning the orb. You can´t be too close to him, or he´ll punish you. In the air, you can afford(and it´s best) to remain at mid-range.



And I went up against a lot of floaty Golbezes. They don't like staying on the ground. :/ And those type of Golbezes give me the worst trouble for some reason. Am I forgetting something simple here? If so, Genesis, do tell. I'd like to be able to say that Squall is the worst matchup for Golbez, as well. :D

Actually, it will look very silly. But whenever they get floaty, make sure you stay on the ground and try to pull them to the ground too. Blasting Zone may do you wonders here. Or you can Beatrush him, if you see an opening, but you gotta be careful. Remember that, when they are on the air, they lose that field control Golbez is famous for.
If he tries Genesis Rock, dodge backwards as soon as the screen goes dark, hop and Rough Divide his ass. The rock casting is not immediate, you can dodge it on time. Just keep sharp.

Golbez is one of those rare cases where I don´t care about 9999. I´ll just take my time and snipe him to the death. It´s easier that way.

Since there´s a heated discussion about the matter(protagonized by me, of all people), I´ve decided to try and bring the discussion to the sacred ground of Squall players:

Squall vs. Holy spam
What to do?

I fought it and did well, in my opinion, sniping and breaking the opponent sometimes. But I was no match for it twice.
Suggestions?

[Spyder]

Since there´s a heated discussion about the matter(protagonized by me, of all people), I´ve decided to try and bring the discussion to the sacred ground of Squall players:

Squall vs. Holy spam
What to do?

I fought it and did well, in my opinion, sniping and breaking the opponent sometimes. But I was no match for it twice.
Suggestions?

I assume you are referring to the topic in the Bartz section? :D

I, myself, had a lot of trouble against holy spam. Holy spam is still bearable if you have your opponent in your field of view. That way you can see when to dodge/block/dash. Though, I wouldn't suggest dodging the Holy unless Squall is close enough to counter.

The problem occurs when the spammer is somewhere prancing around in the air near the invisible ceiling, spamming to his heart's content. It's even more dangerous if he happens to be right above you, because Holy cannot be dashed through if you go up vertically.

The best solution I had so far was to dash far away, by using a multi air slide + and then use a free dash/jump to gain height. The more horizontal distance there is between you and your opponent, the more likely you'll be able to see spammer even if he is high up.

If the opponent decides to get a little closer, dash away again and use the free dash/jump again to continue gaining height. Once you are about the same level as the caster, that's when you can finally fight on equal grounds. As you can probably tell, some stages will not allow you this type of luxury to maneuver. :/

Holy isn't as dangerous when the caster is at the same level as you and if you are up close and personal. Squall's Heel Crush can reflect it back. His beat fang is fast enough to interrupt. However, I don't think the opponent will be holy spamming once you get close enough to counter.

[SquallLeonhart]

Against Holy spammers I found it effective to omni dash out of range, then either jump to the top of the map and omni dash to their face, or use Aerial RD or Heel Crush to get close.

[K´Genesis]

Yes, in fact, I used more Heel Crush/DC than dashes to approach him. But even then, I had Free Air Dash equipped.
With Omni, I´m not too sure. But the secret is to not ever let him go to the top of the map while you´re down and always keep it at the shortest distance possible. Your only problem here becomes Slide Hazzard.

[Spyder]

The problem I see using a Heel Crush/DC is that the next incoming wave has a chance of hitting Squall during his recovery. Also, aerial Rough Divide is best used if it can connect with the caster. Otherwise, the next incoming wave will hit Squall during his cool down. In any case, I wouldn't recommend using the aerial Rough Divide while closing distance because even if the Rough Divide does close the gap, there is enough time for Bartz to dodge and counter with a slide hazard. And you're back to square one. =/

[SquallLeonhart]

I use Aerial RD more for when I'm close enough so that if it misses it flies past Bartz and makes him hard to counter with Slide Hazard

[ssjkiego]

golbez and kuja are both broken anyway...Just to what i do and run >.>

[Suppi]

Squall Vs Chicken fights are the worse match up really... worse part is Squall isn't suited for long range combat to begin with so it's all just skill when doing this kind of match up.

[icyie04]

I don't have a lot of problems with chicken fights, beat fang is FAST. Combo'd with omni air dash, you're all set.

[XxGrezxX]

If he unleashed ultima and float away from the range of your BF, you're in for a HP attack...though I don't think Kuja can even escape from BF while unleashing Ultima...

[Spyder]

If he unleashed ultima and float away from the range of your BF, you're in for a HP attack...though I don't think Kuja can even escape from BF while unleashing Ultima...

There is a possibility that Kuja can move out of beat fang when casting Ultima. He's quite mobile. However, I don't think Squall can get punished for a whiffed beat fang. He has a good recovery; Squall should be able to dodge out just in time for Ultima to miss.

[Loire]

How do you defeat this monstrosity as Squall? I mean I'm not even facing a real human being.

Level 51 Golbez in story mode against my level 60 Squall. I've never had trouble with an NPC before, not even Kuja but this beast just rocks me.

Obviously this thread is more for those imagining a Squall>Golbez PvP match up but god help me.

[Spyder]

How do you defeat this monstrosity as Squall? I mean I'm not even facing a real human being.

Level 51 Golbez in story mode against my level 60 Squall. I've never had trouble with an NPC before, not even Kuja but this beast just rocks me.

Obviously this thread is more for those imagining a Squall>Golbez PvP match up but god help me.

We already have a thread dedicated to this.
---------------

We've covered Golbez in the last two pages. So take a look and maybe you'll find something that will help you. However, keep in mind that the strategies that are discussed are against human opponents.

Other than that, there really is nothing that I can help with specifically unless you state the details and what is it exactly you are having trouble against (ie. his brave attacks, an hp attack, etc.)

[Scott]

Not Squall specific, but I always get hit by it:

Warrior of Lights Radiant Sword always gets me. Always. 100%. How do you dodge it? I've tried forwards, side, back, and running and then dodging, and yet it still hits.

[icyie04]

Dodge it like you dodge blaze.

Dodge TOWARDS the swords right before they hit you.

[K´Genesis]

Or Rough Divide it.
But dodging forward is safe too, if you´re far away from WoL.

[Loire]

Other than that, there really is nothing that I can help with specifically unless you state the details and what is it exactly you are having trouble against (ie. his brave attacks, an hp attack, etc.)

Biggest problem I would have to say is getting close to him for any sort of attack. No matter what I do he will route my attacks. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComputerIsACheatingBastard)
If I wait for him to commit to an attack he will float away from me nonchalantly.

If I draw him in and block his attack his stagger will end and he will intiate his attack long before I complete RevD, Blasting Zone, Fated Circle, rough divide, heel crush beat fang you name it.

I finally defeated him simply by collecting ex cores and then hoping for the best when I attack but that Golbez battle was a joke. I'v never found any battle in Dissidia difficult before now.

Not to mention his critical rate was through the roof and consistently broke me from quadruple digit brave in a single attack but I suppose thats par for the course with NPC's.

[K´Genesis]

Biggest problem I would have to say is getting close to him for any sort of attack. No matter what I do he will route my attacks. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComputerIsACheatingBastard)
If I wait for him to commit to an attack he will float away from me nonchalantly.

That´s the beauty of it. You can afford to wait.
And you can surround him and try a sneak attack every now and then. Squall has absolute priority for this waiting game, against Golbez.
The only move that not totally counterable by Beatrush is Glare Hand. So, learn that move´s range and you´ll be fine.


If I draw him in and block his attack his stagger will end and he will intiate his attack long before I complete RevD, Blasting Zone, Fated Circle, rough divide, heel crush beat fang you name it.

You´re obviously doing something wrong here. Maybe blocking twice, I dunno.
But there´s no such thing as a character getting away without damage after being blocked, unless you decide not to hit him.


I finally defeated him simply by collecting ex cores and then hoping for the best when I attack but that Golbez battle was a joke. I'v never found any battle in Dissidia difficult before now.

Well, even you admits that winning this way is a joke. But a win is a win...


Not to mention his critical rate was through the roof and consistently broke me from quadruple digit brave in a single attack but I suppose thats par for the course with NPC's.

One word: equipment



From today to tomorrow, the video of my fight against a Golbez mainer for the last tourney should be on. I suggest you take a peek at it. Maybe that can help you understand a bit better this match-up.

[Marcus]

The freakin gay clown Kefka =_=

Options are limited with the fire and augh.

approaching is a bit annoying.

Human kefka players just seem, out of reach.

[RoboDestroyer]

Heel crush & Rough Divide

[Marcus]

Even with heel crush, I always seem to take the last hit of one of those.

I try to use rough divide but they hit me , maybe my timing is just bad.

[Spyder]

Before opening a new thread, see the Directory (http://dissidiaforums.com/showthread.php?t=383). It's there for a reason. And also utilize the search function; we already have a discussion opened on how to defeat characters, we don't need anymore.

As on how to defeat Kefka, I would say that Squall can fair quite well against him. Squall's moves like Heel Crush, Aerial Circle and well timed aerial Rough Divides can punish and evade Kefka's attack.

The only problem with this matchup is like with all the mage's matchups. You'll need to follow Kefka like a magnet. You must utilize omni air dash and jumps to your best ability to follow him where ever he goes.

One of the biggest problems you'll face is probably the WW Firaga, which at times becomes unblockable. However, the WW Firaga starts off blockable, so the best way to deal with this move is if you are sticking close to Kefka. There is a long delay time before Kefka summons the attack, so you should have enough time to close the distance and punish with a heel crush or an aerial circle.

Also, don't be afraid to use the heel crush to direct yourself through countless number of Kefka's magic. It will go through any attack other than the unblockable WW Firaga.

The only other problem you'll face is probably Kefka going into Ex Mode. Suddenly the heel crush doesn't seem to be so effective against two (or sometimes four!) WW Firagas. And the brave damage he does in Ex Mode is enough to rival that of Squall's.

[Marcus]

I see, thanks.

My apologies for starting that thread, I'll be sure to check the directory in the future.

[Title]

What's a good method of combos/style of play to use against Zidane? I'm not huge on turtling and waiting for them to come to me all the time but I also understand the air is Zidane's domain. But for some reason I STILL cannot play well against Zidane at all! I also understand that Zidane is a very tough match up for Squall mainers when the Zidane player uses him correctly, as in always staying in the air. Any help with this problem, please?
-
Also sorry if this isn't the place to ask this, but it seemed the most suitable.

[icyie04]

Stay on the ground and be offensive, I guess. Try to keep him broken.

[Title]

Stay on the ground and be offensive, I guess. Try to keep him broken.I'm always on the ground and never in the air vs. Zidane. Every once in awhile I'll go in for a Heel Crush or Beat Fang but not often honestly.

[Nemo]

Yesterday I faced off against this guy who had a crazy EX build Cloud. And it took forever for him to get out of it. And Cloud's attacks can't be blocked in EX so I had a really hard time against him. Any tips?

[ZeRo_oVerLoaD]

Yesterday I faced off against this guy who had a crazy EX build Cloud. And it took forever for him to get out of it. And Cloud's attacks can't be blocked in EX so I had a really hard time against him. Any tips?

Use your MFs or BBs, or any projectile that you have. This will make him distracted.
Cloud in ExMode can be very aggresive which I think your friends is, so if you want, you can step off and make your distance for a couple of minutes and wait for the ExMode to expire.

But, Cloud can be easily punished if you know when to attack for a counter.
His attacks don't have much tracking compared to Squall's BeatFang, utilize that. Stay in air and stay close within BF's range. Dodge your ass out in his every attack then counter. His attacks also considered as ones which were easily blocked, that is because you can see it coming. Use that advantage but don't block he's in ExMode, so dodge and punish.
As for Braver, (man... you can dodge this w/o any problem) dodge when it's near you. Don't do early dodges because Braver can track you. Also when you dodge, try using Return dodges, so you will still be close after your dodge, and your attacks will have a shorter travel time.:)

Pretty much that's what I do when i'm fighting ExMode Clouds but I prefer to fight in the ground. It's just i'm making a quick hop then do BeatFang or MF or HeelCrush.

[Spyder]

A good Cloud player with an excellent EX build is something truly to fear for Squall.

ZO mostly covered everything needed, but I would suggest you use a good EX build yourself. Look at his multipliers and either match his build or make a better one. This should at least rival his EX intake which should prevent him from staying in EX unless he uses the Hourglasses accessories.

As for strategy, it's best to go defensive. When in EX, Cloud can crush all of Squall's attacks and punish them. Worse yet, Cloud does alot of damage if he's HP=100%. Stay defensive. Make every attack counts. The more you miss, the more you are likely to fall for his BP/Braver mindgame.

[Lichtgestalt]

Tips for squall vs...squall???

[Spyder]

Whatever the Squall player does to annoy you, do the same thing back to him! =D

If you want anything more specific, you'll need to specify your situation.

[Nemo]

Use your MFs or BBs, or any projectile that you have. This will make him distracted.
Cloud in ExMode can be very aggresive which I think your friends is, so if you want, you can step off and make your distance for a couple of minutes and wait for the ExMode to expire.

But, Cloud can be easily punished if you know when to attack for a counter.
His attacks don't have much tracking compared to Squall's BeatFang, utilize that. Stay in air and stay close within BF's range. Dodge your ass out in his every attack then counter. His attacks also considered as ones which were easily blocked, that is because you can see it coming. Use that advantage but don't block he's in ExMode, so dodge and punish.
As for Braver, (man... you can dodge this w/o any problem) dodge when it's near you. Don't do early dodges because Braver can track you. Also when you dodge, try using Return dodges, so you will still be close after your dodge, and your attacks will have a shorter travel time.:)

Pretty much that's what I do when i'm fighting ExMode Clouds but I prefer to fight in the ground. It's just i'm making a quick hop then do BeatFang or MF or HeelCrush.


Awesome! Thank you for this, Zero.

[RDFMASTER]

WHAT ABOUT eXDEATH PLAYERS?

[icyie04]

As for exdeath, stay under him and Mystic Flurry his arse out. I say under, because he can't high guard you if you shoot it from under you. Unless he's good and omni guards your arse.

Is it just me or is Zidane squall's toughest matchup?

[K´Genesis]

Kuja. By far.

[Keiya]

Kuja. By far.

Sorry for reviving a dead thread.

Squall is Kuja's worst matchup... in Japanese Dissidia. In the US version, Heel Crash and ARD can make the match a joke sometimes. All of Kuja's BRV's get knocked cold by Heel Crash's invincibility, and Aerial Rough Divide will go through all his HP attacks (be careful of Ultima through a wall, though). Stay above Kuja for additional measures.

And Zidane? His combos are easily telegraphed by audio cues; try not to be too aggressive, and find an opening by blocking his BRV's. Now that his only HP-BRV's launch off his slower combos, it's much easier to handle him now. On the other hand, if he catches you in a corner, especially in a narrow stage such as Pandemonium, Kefka's Tower, and worst, Edge of Madness, prepare for a Storm Impulse spam...

[Spyder]

On the contrary, Zidane has become extremely powerful in the US version of Dissidia. His fastest brave attack, swift attack, launches into an HP attack. And even though he is blockable, Zidane has the option to mix up his brave game with the Free Energy attack now. I find this matchup to be extremely difficult for Squall.

Also, it's good to have you back, Keiya. It has been awhile.

[icyie04]

Also, it's good to have you back, Keiya. It has been awhile.

Yeah, I was about to say that too.

And Zidane's swift attack has almost no cues before it starts, that's what makes it hard.

[Keiya]

On the contrary, Zidane has become extremely powerful in the US version of Dissidia. His fastest brave attack, swift attack, launches into an HP attack. And even though he is blockable, Zidane has the option to mix up his brave game with the Free Energy attack now. I find this matchup to be extremely difficult for Squall.

Also, it's good to have you back, Keiya. It has been awhile.

It's nice to be back. I need to get a new Ethernet cable for AdHoc Party matches though. I've been playing too much Uncharted 2 and MW2 lately plus college work so Dissidia's been pretty much delegated to something I do between classes.

And yeah, good point on the Zidane matchup. Swift Attack is pretty quick, so I'd say go for the pre-emptive and land Upper Blues or Solid Barrel when you're in range. If the opponent relies on it a lot, you can actually anticipate it, do backward dodge, Zidane will end up in front of you, and punish with Solid Barrel.

Free Energy doesn't give me too much trouble as I thought it would, though. It's probably because if you stay at a close enough range, he'll miss Free Energy. However, I can't deny that Free Energy + great air game = Squall's in for some major hurt.

So, while it's really suicidal at times, I'd say Squall's best bet against Zidane is up in the air, where you can take advantage of startup of his attacks, and then anticipate a counterattack.

[painofxero]

when i fight jecht he spams jecht block with perfect timing. getting BRV is no problem, but land HP is hell. can someone help?

[Spyder]

Jecht is pretty much impervious to any sort of dodge punishment. He can even successfully guard in between your mystic flurries. In order to land HP attacks on him, you'll need to block him, get him during his own combo, or land a rare mystic flurry combo.

Wedge and I have performed a matchup test and concluded that it's a 4-6 matchup. The most difficult part IS landing HP attacks. Here take a look at the report I wrote: http://dissidiaforums.com/showpost.php?p=98244&postcount=35

Hope it helps.

[painofxero]

thanks but most of the time he ends up charging his attacks which if i don't dodge end up crushing my guard and ending in a brutal combo (usually a finisher)

[Spyder]

When Jecht charges his attacks, that's the perfect opportunity to land an HP attack.

[painofxero]

thanks loads Spyder.

[Spyder]

Allow to elaborate further, just in case.

When Jecht charges his attacks, he has two options. Continue charging or attack. Both cases put him in a vulnerable position if you do not act. Whenever you see Jecht charging, you have so many options and they all start with you getting distance.

When Jecht charges near the ground, make sure to distance yourself properly. You'll need to be at a distance where his initial attack will miss. At this distance you can unleash an HP attack. When this happens, Jecht really can't do anything but take the damage. That's why he shouldn't be charging when in danger.

If he is in the air, remember that Jecht has poor horizontal tracking. You can try getting him with unlocked Aerial Circle (which is difficult but you can distance yourself right) or you can unleash Mystic Flurry. When Jecht attacks in the air, he tracks first before attacking. Because he needs to track first, he'll get himself straight into a Mystic Flurry. This is even more so when he charges. He can either continue to charge and eat Mystic Flurry, or he can try attacking and still get hit by it. That's when a follow up HP attack can connect.

Jecht should be careful when charging attacks. It should be rare, and it should only be used for mind games, because he actually provides YOU many opportunities to land those very difficult to land HP attacks.

Hope that clears things up. If you need any further help regarding this matchup, you can always post a video in the Replay section and ask people for advice so they can tell you what you could improve on. Without much video, I can only give you the strategy that works for me.

[icyie04]

^I never even thought of that -.-

[squallcloudph]

Hi Spyder!! Actually im having a hard time fighting a HP chipper specially Zidane...:( can you give me some advise how to fight him better because his attacks is almost no lag time and the Free energy is very fast to react.

Thanks again in advance :)

[Dread]

Hi Spyder!! Actually im having a hard time fighting a HP chipper specially Zidane...:( can you give me some advise how to fight him better because his attacks is almost no lag time and the Free energy is very fast to react.

Thanks again in advance :)

^
^
This is also one of my problems when fighting Zidane with Squall. We badly need your advice Spyder. :(

[Spike]

Hi Spyder!! Actually im having a hard time fighting a HP chipper specially Zidane...:( can you give me some advise how to fight him better because his attacks is almost no lag time and the Free energy is very fast to react.

Thanks again in advance :)

Yeah me too Spyder! I have trouble against Zidane. But I have tremendous trouble against Tidus. his Stick and Move destroys my MF, AC, RD, BB->Blasting Zone... But Somehow I can amanage but I still have trouble against both of them :D

[Spyder]

Err......guys..do you mind if I jump on the bandwagon and ask this Spyder on how to beat Zidane? Cause I honestly have no idea, myself. =B

In all seriousness, Zidane is trouble for Squall. And I'd appreciate the input of our Squall players--not just me. Zidane's ability to turn any hit into HP damage is what makes him a force to be reckoned with, and it doesn't help that his swift attack has almost no cool down. If the battle takes to the air, Squall will have very little options. Beat fang and heel crush both lose out to swift attack, but it's his best options and only options.

If Squall wants to win, he'll need to not beat the character--Zidane--but the player, because it'll be mostly a mindgame. The only options you'll have is punish Zidane during his dodges. I'll try looking into this match-up, but for now that's all I have.

I hope someone can cover for me here and provide better information.

---------------------

As for Tidus, he could definitely be trouble if the battle becomes aerial. However, he only has one move going for him--hop step. It is superior to beat fang in almost every way except for vertical tracking. It has low cool down and because it has little tracking, it'll interrupt almost any attack Squall has. However, thankfully, hop step can't do HP damage, and it only becomes a threat in exmode because Tidus deals alot more damage when his HP is high.

Therefore, it's best to chip Tidus' HP in the beginning of battle and then conserve BRV when his HP is halved. Dodge and Throw, easily punishes dodges so don't dodge around Tidus. Instead concentrate on blocking and punishing. Tidus is also impervious to Rough Divide dodge punishment because of Dodge and Throw, so getting good at blocking is even more important.

The best thing to do is to watch out for all his other attacks that lead to HP damage. Squall can compete with Tidus with BRV management so hop step outside of Ex shouldn't pose too much of a threat.

Quick note about MF: Do NOT use this attack when Tidus is in the air. He has all the tools to punish MF easily. Use it only when he's on the ground.

[squallcloudph]

Err......guys..do you mind if I jump on the bandwagon and ask this Spyder on how to beat Zidane? Cause I honestly have no idea, myself. =B

If Squall wants to win, he'll need to not beat the character--Zidane--but the player, because it'll be mostly a mindgame. The only options you'll have is punish Zidane during his dodges.

Hehe even Spyder have a hard time dealing with Zidane, but I will agree to that statement that we have to learn how the PLAYER plays Zidane so we can counter his playstyle.... Thx a bunch Spyder :)

[K´Genesis]

I´ll throw my two cents on this one:

Zidane: Spyder defined it perfectly. No use trying to defeat the character. Defeat the player instead. Zidane leaves some gaps, but an experienced player will hide those gaps with spacing and mind tricks. One thing you have to be certain about is that this battle will be 99,9% aerial. So, forget your ground game. If you want to keep Blasting Zone, just in case, it´s fine. But save yourself the CP for other stuff. Your best assets here are Beat Fang and Heel Crush. One for damage and the other to brush S&L off.
Speaking of S&L, that´s imperative for this battle. You just need it, no questions asked. If you do not equip it, Zidane will be free to wait for you to screw up and punish you for that as much as he wants to.
Another thing: if you have to choose between Counterattack and Sneak Attack for this one, go for Sneak Attack. Since Beat Fang is your primary source of damage, Sneak Attack will always be there to help you.

Now, for the battle per se.
Always throw out a random Heel Crush, cancelling it before you even start to move. This prevents S&L from kicking in. At the same time, don´t be predictable about when you´ll do it and be careful as to where you´ll dodge. Dodging will play an important part here. That´s the fertile ground for punishment, from both sides. Keep your distance, but just about enough to be able to dash and punish happy dodges from Zidane.
Zidane´s job is to chip you before you reach 9999 BRV. Your job here is to get to 9999 BRV, no questions asked. Do whatever it takes to get there. By this time, Zidane should be focused on dodging right after Swift Attack to avoid punishment. That´s where ARD kicks in.
Other than that, Shift Break and Free Energy are the two other possibilities for hitting with an HP Attack, outside of a block. But, again, a careful player will avoid such risky situations.

Make no mistake, this is a hard battle. It´s doable, but will demand your very limits.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Tidus: An interesting match-up. Tidus can only score an HP Attack against you if you´re careless with your dodges. Squall can only score an HP Attack Tidus if he gets careless with his attacks. It all comes down to Tidus´ decision to go offensive and how well are you prepared for that. Hop Step is just as annoying as Beat Fang, so you´re tied there. You just have to outlast your enemy´s resistance(mostly mental). Don´t rush this one, it´s a patience battle. But alternate between aerial and ground moments. Blizzard Bullet might surprise here.

[Dread]

Err......guys..do you mind if I jump on the bandwagon and ask this Spyder on how to beat Zidane? Cause I honestly have no idea, myself. =B

In all seriousness, Zidane is trouble for Squall. And I'd appreciate the input of our Squall players--not just me. Zidane's ability to turn any hit into HP damage is what makes him a force to be reckoned with, and it doesn't help that his swift attack has almost no cool down. If the battle takes to the air, Squall will have very little options. Beat fang and heel crush both lose out to swift attack, but it's his best options and only options.

If Squall wants to win, he'll need to not beat the character--Zidane--but the player, because it'll be mostly a mindgame. The only options you'll have is punish Zidane during his dodges. I'll try looking into this match-up, but for now that's all I have.


I guess that leaves that our only option is analyzing how your opponent does this and that. There are even times that right after Zidane dodges, I use Beat Fang, it misses. He falls in the air quickly. It's kinda hard to hit him. Zidane is really a pain for Squall. >.>




I´ll throw my two cents on this one:

Zidane: Spyder defined it perfectly. No use trying to defeat the character. Defeat the player instead. Zidane leaves some gaps, but an experienced player will hide those gaps with spacing and mind tricks. One thing you have to be certain about is that this battle will be 99,9% aerial. So, forget your ground game. If you want to keep Blasting Zone, just in case, it´s fine. But save yourself the CP for other stuff. Your best assets here are Beat Fang and Heel Crush. One for damage and the other to brush S&L off.
Speaking of S&L, that´s imperative for this battle. You just need it, no questions asked. If you do not equip it, Zidane will be free to wait for you to screw up and punish you for that as much as he wants to.
Another thing: if you have to choose between Counterattack and Sneak Attack for this one, go for Sneak Attack. Since Beat Fang is your primary source of damage, Sneak Attack will always be there to help you.

Now, for the battle per se.
Always throw out a random Heel Crush, cancelling it before you even start to move. This prevents S&L from kicking in. At the same time, don´t be predictable about when you´ll do it and be careful as to where you´ll dodge. Dodging will play an important part here. That´s the fertile ground for punishment, from both sides. Keep your distance, but just about enough to be able to dash and punish happy dodges from Zidane.
Zidane´s job is to chip you before you reach 9999 BRV. Your job here is to get to 9999 BRV, no questions asked. Do whatever it takes to get there. By this time, Zidane should be focused on dodging right after Swift Attack to avoid punishment. That´s where ARD kicks in.
Other than that, Shift Break and Free Energy are the two other possibilities for hitting with an HP Attack, outside of a block. But, again, a careful player will avoid such risky situations.

Make no mistake, this is a hard battle. It´s doable, but will demand your very limits.


I never thought of not equipping Squall's ground moves. This'll save me CP for equipping Snooze and Lose!

I have a follow-up question, which dash is better to use here? Omni or Free-Air?

By the way, thanks a lot for the infos Spyder and K´Genesis!! :)

[Spike]

Yeah Zidane is really a pain for squall. Even if I'm a Zidane mainer, I always have trouble against Zidane. I am Always happy to use Swift attack against every character, but if it is used against me, I usually get pissed off.:). But I think I can manage by your responses Spyder and k genesis. But if Zidane uses Vortex instead of SI (well in my experience), I usually have more trouble since he have better options in the air now... They can usually (which I also do against squall:D) is OAD underneath Squall when he suddenly uses AC and vortex him (it combos). This is one DC combos that tears me up when I'm the squall that's being destroyed by this combo.

[Slinky_Slink]

Yeah Zidane is really a pain for squall. Even if I'm a Zidane mainer, I always have trouble against Zidane. I am Always happy to use Swift attack against every character, but if it is used against me, I usually get pissed off.:). But I think I can manage by your responses Spyder and k genesis. But if Zidane uses Vortex instead of SI (well in my experience), I usually have more trouble since he have better options in the air now... They can usually (which I also do against squall:D) is OAD underneath Squall when he suddenly uses AC and vortex him (it combos). This is one DC combos that tears me up when I'm the squall that's being destroyed by this combo.

smart squalls will never throw out aerial circle against zidane.

EVER.

[Spike]

smart squalls will never throw out aerial circle against zidane.

EVER.

Is that so? Well maybe the squalls I've fought are not smart enough. they throw in AC after MF or unexpectedly. :D

[Slinky_Slink]

Is that so? Well maybe the squalls I've fought are not smart enough. they throw in AC after MF or unexpectedly. :D

probably.

you needs to fight a good squall.

not that it matters, zidane will still be > squall.

[Nemo]

smart squalls will never throw out aerial circle against zidane.

EVER.


Unless that smart Squally is cancelling their Free Energy and sending em flying :D.

[Slinky_Slink]

Unless that smart Squally is cancelling their Free Energy and sending em flying :D.

the chances of predicting that are so slim, and plus a zidane that's fighting a squall with OHKO brave probably wouldn't go for a free energy, knowing that it could be potentially punished by said aerial circle. ESPECIALLY since he has so many other options that are way better than free energy, if he's been keeping squall in check by chipping away with swift attack > meo twister, why would he change it up now?

[kacarrot]

the chances of predicting that are so slim, and plus a zidane that's fighting a squall with OHKO brave probably wouldn't go for a free energy, knowing that it could be potentially punished by said aerial circle. ESPECIALLY since he has so many other options that are way better than free energy, if he's been keeping squall in check by chipping away with swift attack > meo twister, why would he change it up now?

Probably on the chance that the zidane player could be blocked, since i dont know how to time ariel circle to counter free energy, a zidane who doesnt want to be blocked could use free energy on me with almost know draw backs except the occassional beat fang.
so it pretty much comes down to the player. imo

squalls who are good at blocking= free energy
A squall who is good at countering free energy= Swift attack
A squall who is good at both= mostly swift attack with the occassional free energy

[Slinky_Slink]

Probably on the chance that the zidane player could be blocked


haha, that's a funny joke you made there.

[Hollowed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MijzDzhwetg

Starts at 0:47. I was fighting a Squall CPU as Bartz and it used Aerial Circle to reflect the second Holy, canceling the combo. I don't know if it works against humans, but I think it's something worth testing. Maybe it applies to other characters.

[ZeRo_oVerLoaD]

a reflected holy hits you, that's why your combo was cancelled...

*btw, Squall almost got you there... almost. At the end, both of you were spamming HP attacks... :D

[Hollowed]

Yes, but Aerial Circle has a low magic block. It may not need to reflect a Holy back at Bartz because Squall is already protected from magic out of his dodge.

[ZeRo_oVerLoaD]

Yes, but Aerial Circle has a low magic block. It may not need to reflect a Holy back at Bartz because Squall is already protected from magic out of his dodge.

Squall didn't use any dodge... After your first Holy hits him, Recovery attack kicks in, which was ACircle. ACircle can reflect\deflect Holy. And one "holy ball" (from your second holy) was reflected back at you while you're doing the Flare combo.
Flare's brv damage stopped ACircle

EDIT: I think the issue here is that, Flare still continued to activate even if Squall was already recovered (using recovery attack; Aerial Circle)

*The exchange of moves were so fast, even the game found it hard to control :D

[squallcloudph]

Mmmmm..... bcause of our Group meeting last Saturday, can I ask you guys how you deal on WOL??? really I dont have any Idea because Squall dont have something to pull WOL to the air or you can beat him even on ground....
Sory Spyder I still cant handle people on the ground specially ground type char. T_T

[Spike]

Well when WoL is on the ground and he leaves himself there, then Squall has a harder time dealing him with. Squall has a higher chance of winning when dealing with WoL in midair but I don't know much strategies on how to make him to midair.

[ZeRo_oVerLoaD]

Damn WoL.. His attack's animation is too long... and if ever you were hit even with a single touch, BOOM! sure HP damage.
I think, we should predict his attacks and block our way to victory... or lets get at BF's range and wait for his attack animation to finish and attack at the moment WoL stops moving...

Personally, I found WoL harder to fight in air. He has great air combos.

[Spyder]

An aerial WoL is a lot easier to face than one that chooses a strong ground game with close-to-ground/mid-air punishment.

The main problem with this matchup is that Squall really doesn't have any tools to bring WoL into the air. All of Squall's aerial attacks can be promptly countered. Mystic Flurry can be countered with White Fang. Beat Fang with Heel Crush cancels falls to Ascension. The Squall player will need to be extremely vigilant because Ascension is hardly punishable by Beat Fang and WoL can cover his dodges with SoL, which of course can be mindgamed with Heel Crush, which once again is countered promptly by Ascension.

I would recommend you watching the Squall vs. WoL matchups that occured in KAoS. There were a few actually. I'll just point them to you here:

K'Genesis seems to like fighting WoL in the air:
K'Genesis versus RDF - KAoS Match 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OTlhx2kmsE)

I prefer fighting WoL on his home turf--the ground:
My fight against Tsuken in KAoS Match 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1n-AokoLO4)

There are other videos on the dissidiaforums channel and also on my channel against WoL if you think you need more examples.

I would say that this matchup is 3-7 against Squall, and it will take a lot of effort on your part to win this one against a grounded WoL.

[squallcloudph]

Ok based on those videos, Squall won because of High Brv + Ex... So I think the best strategy fighting WoL is play safe to gain killing brave and if have a chance to link it to ExBurst. Kinda like fighting Zidane on air.

Thanks Spyder for the videos ^_^

[Spike]

I think fighting Zidane is much harder than fighting WoL because Zidane has a much better aerial game. But I know who you're referrng to squallcloudph. Its Dee right? basing on my fight against his WoL using my Zidane (sorry he obliterated my squall but I noticed his game when I fought him using Zidane), he and I are alot alike since we tend to anticipate much of our opponents and we mindgame alot. The thing with him is that when he is against Zidane, he tends to go into air while aginst Squall, he is almost always on the ground. first of all, try to beat Dee himself and not WoL since Dee is great in anticipation (If spyder has anythign to say, I think it will help greatly) and I think anticipating his casts of Blue Fang and White fang (though I think you might have better chance countering white fang but timing is very strict since cool down is low). That's what I did when I almost killed him usign Shift break, but the uncool thing in our fight was that the last hit of SHift beak didn't crit and he was left with 30 Hp and I lost after that. :(

[squallcloudph]

@Spike
Ofcourse I think Zidane would be much more difficult against Squall.

Against WoL is I can hit him with BF after he release WF (strict tming & OAD must be equip), The problem w/ WoL is his slow animation, even you dodge his attack the shield still can touch you and can connect to HP damage..

But based on the Videos posted by Spyder I think maybe I can do it....(hopefully ~_~).

[Spike]

You mean his Shield attacks and Crossover? Yeah they have lasting animation that can still hit you for HP damage. Oh yeah, did you try using Air dash? I often hit him with BRv attacks (yes even Vortex) when I use it. But don't spam it.

[Corde]

WoL totally destroys Squall mind game based on heel crush, both on the ground and the air, so better forget it.
MF also is highly punishable by his melee attacks, even from the ground.
Just stay on the ground, turn into a turtle Squall (that's an awful pity for a Squaller), and you can face off WoL quite even with TB and UB, dashing away and spamming BB to take your breath.
Keep in mind that by firing a blizzard bullet, than dashing forward, you can take the chance, if it hits, to link into beat fang.

[K´Genesis]

The key in this fight is that WoL cannot be unpredictable.
He has a set pattern of behaviors and positioning, which(from my experience) vary from player to player but not by much.

The Squall player must be competent enough to read his opponent´s actions, learn his modus operandi and capitalize on those little flaws. Take your time, observe how the player recovers from each Ascension, each Dayflash, etc.... WoL has to dodge immediately after any move because his recovery lag is not generous with him.
WoL knows he can´t play a ranged game, because ARD will tear him in two if he tries. At best, he´ll try one or two White Fangs occasionally. Keep sharp, dash and punish.
HC cancel will only be useful to avoid S&L and hovering above him. But cancel HC as soon as you start it and, most of the time, backwards. It will only serve as mobility, so you can watch the prey.
And finally, if you decide to go ground, Upper Blues is your best friend here. It punishes Ascension when needed.

[Spyder]

So I was able to get in some matches with Hallabaloo the other day, and he picked up Kuja recently. I was thinking that it was a perfect opportunity to see how Squall does against him, because...well because I haven't faced many Kujas and arguably he is Squall's worst (?) matchup.

I don't know if I did that great against him, but I certainly tried my best with all the knowledge I had about this matchup. I was only able to squeeze out two victories against Halla's newly trained Kuja.

My impressions so far is this: if Squall manages to get the first break, he will likely be at a far better advantage against Kuja. The problem with this is that Kuja can answer to all of Squall's brave attacks. In other words, Kuja will be the one controlling the brave most of the time.

Squall's advantage (?) is that he can land far more HP attacks than Kuja. But the opportunity to land them occurs only when Kuja whiffs his HP attacks, but most Kuja players will wait to have a killing brave before attempting any HP attacks, which makes these opportunities extremely risky for Squall.

Also, Kuja's exmode aides him in landing his HP attacks, which can end the match with one HP attack if the Kuja player is going for a OHKO and has a good ex build. I personally don't know how to handle Kuja's exmode. It seems that distancing yourself seem like the best idea, but it seems that no matter where you dash off to, Kuja can easily glide and reposition himself.

Well anyway, to give you guys a little taste of our battles, here's one of the matches I had with him:

YouTube- Kuja (Hallabaloo) vs. Squall (Spyder) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OzsTQf2NIg)

[Corde]

Playing with my super turtle friend, i realized that Zidane is virtually unbeatable by Squall.

Supposing you build up 9999 bps, you just can't relay on a defensive play to block successfully and end the game: Zidane can actually use Free Energy alone and you're unable to counter it with any HP attack, having no HP links, only other useless brave. Zidane doesn't really need to block anything of yours.
Surely you can't spam Hp attacks, which Zidane can easily oversee and punish.
The only safe occasion to cast Mystic Flurry is after UB from above, but there's no chance to hit a careful player like that.

Of course there is the chance that you start Aerial Circle at the same time of Zidane's Free Energy, overpassing its hit box at close range, but it's all luck, and if you fail your forecast you'll remain widely open.

The fact is that, for surpass your defensive game, every other character has to expose itself to the counter of one of your HP attacks. All except Zidane.

As i said before thought, this is only a virtual statement, the game is also luck and mistakes, but the state of things makes this match up all against Squall.

[Spike]

How would squall fair against Jecht? Can you guys have some strategies? I know I can abuse squall's magics since jecht doesn't have long range pressure and squall can take advantage of that. But Jecht can break or eat many of squall's BRV as much as squall can do to him and on top of that jecht can have an HP link from jecht stream and jecht rush and he has ex cancel combos. I just want to have opinions but I can manage somehow (I literally get owned by jecht by I win in like 2/7 battles). Any tips or opinions?

[squallcloudph]

@Spike
Based on my exp fighting a Jecht character: You really have to learn how he attacks for you to easily block him, I know he can break your guard when charge but if you see him charging like that then counter it with Beat Fang... well hope that works for you cause it really works on me ^_^

One more thing if he is on Exmode and doing his combo continuously for me its the best chance for a block or HP attack! (just make sure your on the right position)

[533787655464]

@Spike
Based on my exp fighting a Jecht character: You really have to learn how he attacks for you to easily block him, I know he can break your guard when charge but if you see him charging like that then counter it with Beat Fang... well hope that works for you cause it really works on me ^_^

One more thing if he is on Exmode and doing his combo continuously for me its the best chance for a block or HP attack! (just make sure your on the right position)

I wish Beat Fang was the answer to all problems

[ZeRo_oVerLoaD]

@Spike:
MysticFurry works well against Jecht. Most of my opponent using Jecht are somewhat turtles. They keep on Blocking and Jecht blocking.
Well, this is the time where MF works best, to punish blocks. :)
Try working out your MFs. and you'll see the difference.
And, also as you know, HeelCrush is effective for normal blocks. Just cancel it immediately when you see JechtBlock coming, to avoid being staggered.

[Spike]

thanks for the tips Zo and squallcloudph. I can see some strategies with MF but I don't its enough. I can land Hp links but I have a hard time killing him since I have more break status than him. I'll try HC cancels and see what I can do.

[ChaosMuramasa]

I know Ex-Death was probably already discussed in this thread but my question is rather specific. It regards Ex-Death in the air.

How exactly do you guys counter Ex-Death in the air and land your HP hits while in the air? Rough Divide is a no-no as he can really see this coming from a mile away if you don't get him off guard, causing him to Omni-Block it 99% of the time. As for Aerial Circle...I'm not really sure.

How do you guys land HP hits against Ex-Death in the air?

[TKG09]

@Spike:
MysticFurry works well against Jecht. Most of my opponent using Jecht are somewhat turtles. They keep on Blocking and Jecht blocking.
Well, this is the time where MF works best, to punish blocks. :)
Try working out your MFs. and you'll see the difference.
And, also as you know, HeelCrush is effective for normal blocks. Just cancel it immediately when you see JechtBlock coming, to avoid being staggered.

Except Jecht Block comes out in 1 frame

[Bloodsword83]

I know Ex-Death was probably already discussed in this thread but my question is rather specific. It regards Ex-Death in the air.

How exactly do you guys counter Ex-Death in the air and land your HP hits while in the air? Rough Divide is a no-no as he can really see this coming from a mile away if you don't get him off guard, causing him to Omni-Block it 99% of the time. As for Aerial Circle...I'm not really sure.

How do you guys land HP hits against Ex-Death in the air?

In the air, Aerial Circle is your best bet. However, if you SPAM Aerial Circle, then the Exdeath will anticipate, Side-Step©, and punish with Delta Attack. Heck, if the Exdeath is really on his/her game, he might even be able to Side-Step© every one of them.

[TyrantWave]

Or just Omni them. Side stepping is safer, sure, but it's not exactly hard to Omni the circle's.

I find MF in the air, if it hits then use Ariel Circle, if he dodges, then go in for another BRV attack (Might as well punish it), and if he blocks it, wait for the counter then use Rough Divide tends to work for me.
It's still a case of luck though =/.

[Veysey]

Except Jecht Block comes out in 1 frame

Dont forget that the Jecht needs to anticipate a finished Heel Crush in order to bring out JB that late unless he has godly reflexes AND is in a mostly lag-free environment. JBing a Heel Crush is a huge risk anyways.

Here's a little insight on (at least my) Jechts mentality when facing Squall.

Jecht, against Heel Crush cancels, is likely to punish the dodge afterwards (which you can try to cover with Beat Fang from what I've seen) or he'll try to counter the startup of Heel Crush before you d/c out. Jecht Block won't come out very much because it won't recover before Squall can d/c + Beat Fang. If Jecht is trying to safely block a lot (as in you have a hard time punishing them), throw in Aerial Circle with Heel Crush d/cs if you need/want the HP damage (it's a good idea to save this one though since Jecht likely has Cat Nip + BttW, he's got the tools he needs to stop/avoid HP attempts, so he might try to bait an HP attack and let it hit to get those extra crits if Squall got the first break)

Mystic Furry, be careful because if you throw it out on neutral stance Jecht, he can JB the bullets (or whatever they are) and get an easy hit in if he's expecting it. Mystic Furry is a hard attack to safely punish but in my opinion, it's one of Jechts best opportunities to get a good hit in on Squall if he's close by.

In the air, Jecht will turtle out Squall because he lacks safe approaches that he can get away with without being punished, so expect him to play very carefully. That's not to say he won't attack, but he's either going to attack from a safe distance and draw you in or when he really feels he can land it/clash with another attack. Stream against Squall usually means getting countered =/

On the ground, Jecht Rush isn't as easy to punish but it's also a little harder for Jecht to approach, so try to hold him off with attacks that you don't commit much to (fast ending/startup frames or easily canceled) and play it safe. Keep him away should be the name of the game on the ground. Be careful, because a well timed rush can go through a lot of magic you can throw out which is why you can't let him get too close - it'll limit your options since he can eat through magic with an actual attack. Of course, Jecht has charge which lets him mix up his choices if he feels a block is coming. He's going to feel a lot more comfortable on the ground since he has more options against Squall here. (In the air, it's basically guess the beat fang, guess the heel crushes, try to get in with Mystic Furry, and play patience otherwise.)

Anyways hope that helps at least a little.

[Bloodsword83]

Or just Omni them. Side stepping is safer, sure, but it's not exactly hard to Omni the circle's.

I find MF in the air, if it hits then use Ariel Circle, if he dodges, then go in for another BRV attack (Might as well punish it), and if he blocks it, wait for the counter then use Rough Divide tends to work for me.
It's still a case of luck though =/.

Your positioning needs to be just right to Omni AC. Otherwise, it'll break through.

Once you begin Rough Divide, though, the Exdeath should have just enough time to activate Counter Grand Cross.

[ZeRo_oVerLoaD]

Dont forget that the Jecht needs to anticipate a finished Heel Crush in order to bring out JB that late unless he has godly reflexes AND is in a mostly lag-free environment. JBing a Heel Crush is a huge risk anyways.

Here's a little insight on (at least my) Jechts mentality when facing Squall.

Jecht, against Heel Crush cancels, is likely to punish the dodge afterwards (which you can try to cover with Beat Fang from what I've seen) or he'll try to counter the startup of Heel Crush before you d/c out. Jecht Block won't come out very much because it won't recover before Squall can d/c + Beat Fang. If Jecht is trying to safely block a lot (as in you have a hard time punishing them), throw in Aerial Circle with Heel Crush d/cs if you need/want the HP damage (it's a good idea to save this one though since Jecht likely has Cat Nip + BttW, he's got the tools he needs to stop/avoid HP attempts, so he might try to bait an HP attack and let it hit to get those extra crits if Squall got the first break)

Mystic Furry, be careful because if you throw it out on neutral stance Jecht, he can JB the bullets (or whatever they are) and get an easy hit in if he's expecting it. Mystic Furry is a hard attack to safely punish but in my opinion, it's one of Jechts best opportunities to get a good hit in on Squall if he's close by.

In the air, Jecht will turtle out Squall because he lacks safe approaches that he can get away with without being punished, so expect him to play very carefully. That's not to say he won't attack, but he's either going to attack from a safe distance and draw you in or when he really feels he can land it/clash with another attack. Stream against Squall usually means getting countered =/

On the ground, Jecht Rush isn't as easy to punish but it's also a little harder for Jecht to approach, so try to hold him off with attacks that you don't commit much to (fast ending/startup frames or easily canceled) and play it safe. Keep him away should be the name of the game on the ground. Be careful, because a well timed rush can go through a lot of magic you can throw out which is why you can't let him get too close - it'll limit your options since he can eat through magic with an actual attack. Of course, Jecht has charge which lets him mix up his choices if he feels a block is coming. He's going to feel a lot more comfortable on the ground since he has more options against Squall here. (In the air, it's basically guess the beat fang, guess the heel crushes, try to get in with Mystic Furry, and play patience otherwise.)

Anyways hope that helps at least a little.

Thanks Veysey!
Spike, are you reading this?

[K´Genesis]

On the Exdeath issue, I´ll throw my two cents in here.

For the BRV strategy:

Heel Crush - Lots and lots of cancels. This is how you(hope to) make him screw up, but don´t expect to complete many, if any at all. It´s also how you´ll maneuver around him.

Beat Fang - Don´t abuse it. Make it as unpredictable as possible, so you can land it occasionally and hope for a clean break. No use going for Counterattack crit condition. Go for Sneak Attack and ensure a steady income of them with Beat Fang.

Mystic Flurry - Avoid it. If you can afford not even equipping it for the extra CP, better. Mystic Flurry only gives Exdeath extra ammunition against you. Doesn´t really pay off for the extremely situational events in which you´ll hit with it.

For the HP strategy:

Aerial Rough Divide - Exdeath can Omni it on reaction, on false dodge and pretty much anytime he´s ready for it. The only chance you have to hit him is if he misses a Grand Cross, but then you´d have to have Mystic Flurry equipped and hope for a delayed one to be blocked, not forgetting you´d have to escape GC first. Pro tip: deequip it.

Aerial Circle - Here´s your finisher in the air. It´s harder for Exdeath to block AC, but not that harder. What you want to do is screw up with his timing. Since High Block won´t allow Exdeath to counter, he has to Omni it. One tip to catch him is to maneuver around with HC cancels until he High/Omni Blocks something, then do a Lock-Off AC during his cooldown animation. Classy shit.

[Spike]

Thanks Veysey!
Spike, are you reading this?

Yeah I;m reading this. Anyway, thanks veysey! It helps a ton man! :D