Golbez Matchup Thread

[RoboDestroyer]

Discuss matchup's for Golbez here.

No particular order is preferred. Just post anything you can about matchups.

[supermence]

wow i just made my Zidane one a while ago and now everybody iis making one well lets start with Squall and how to button lock all the time

[UltimaFox]

Your thread doesn't even make sense. You're not a trendsetter either, matchup threads pop up from time to time.

[supermence]

oh ok i get it but my sexy pic thread was really famous.

[Slayer0]

Please stay on topic you guys.

Yeah I know I don't have anything to contribute (lol hypocrite) because I haven't played Golbez in a while but these first couple posts aren't doing anything at all.

[ShineThatLight]

Well, I guess we can start withe FFI and work our way up?
I planned on making one of these anyways.. Also Robo if i can help in any way getting that FAQ finished or anything, id love to help.

WoL

The Warrior of Light fight can either be very difficult or very easy, depending on how skilled your opponent is (there is generally no in between). WoL has a strong ground game but your distance and spacing as Golbez give you quite a sharp edge on the ground. In the air however is a different story, as with any fight when a Golbez is involved, he will try and stay out of the air as much as possible. WoL has a much stronger air game than you (which is quite sad considering how poor his air game is). Proper spacing is important in this match, if WoL is mid to close range in the air, expect a shield attack. If WoL is far away from you, or very high in the air above you, expect a Radiant Sword. Now, when the WoL is very far above you there is not a whole lot you can do to punish, but if he is further from you horizontally than he is vertically, feel free to run right up to him and smack him with a Glare Hand or Rise Wave to knock him out of RS.
This tactic is all fine and dandy til WoL gets to EX mode, be very wary of his ability to block magic while he is attacking rendering many of your attacks without use. As WoL enters EX, go on the defensive and throw out a Rise Wave when you can (Rise Wave will actually not be blocked by WoL's EX). The key to fighting a WoL in EX mode (as sad as i am to say it) is playing a very strong defensive game, if you get hit prepare for a good 1.5 - 2k damage (that is of course, if he doesn't break you). Overall use your range and spacing techniques to your advantage as WoL has a hard time approaching you, when he is in EX stick to Rise Wave and a more defensive play style. Another thing to mention, get use to punishing dodges with a Rise Wave instead of a Glare Hand, Glare hand can be guarded by Shield of Light (you may be able to Rise Wave or Glare Hand during the ending lag, but im pretty sure WoL can dodge out, needs more testing).
I am pretty safe giving this a 6-4 in Golbez's favor, just be smart how you play it and try not to whiff attacks.

Garland
Garland is the embodiment of all that is knocking-you-down, his strong brave game shouldn't phase you too much if you stick to a link filled play style. Just like WoL, his ground game sets him up for many combos (some of which can lead to HP damage). Once again, just like WoL, if you know how to space yourself properly, it is easy to punish Garland if he whiffs an attack due to his monstrous lag times and mid to short range. Remember, it is not a hard feat to go around a guarding player by using Round Edge, don't be afraid to jump in the air for a short time if you see this attack coming, and punish during end lag. A common tact is to use Cyclone and Blaze one after another to protect Garland as he casts his magic HP attacks. This can be remedied with a simple Rise Wave (or if you can time it properly, a Glare Hand) but as with WoL (wow these two have a similar style) if Garland uses Blaze from above you, all you can do is evade if there is a Cyclone preventing you from jumping up. Once again, be wary of EX mode, this will prevent Garland from being stunned while he attacks, and if he is attacking not even a Rise Wave can knock him out of it (or at least i dont think it can, needs more testing) many Garlands take this opportunity to spam HP attacks, as there is generally not a whole lot to do about it. In general, play cautiously but not too defensively. The longer Garland spends in battle, the better chance he has to win (amassing brave and striking the killing blow). Overall id say this is a 65-35 match up (once again in Gobez's favor), depending on a few variables. Also, deserving Honorable mention, Genesis Rock can deflect Blaze (this is not the best tactic, but it needs to be said). Also, remember to punish those dodges, Garland has the largest hitbox in the game, it shouldn't be a hard feat to hit him on his cooldown times.

I will throw my opinion in on the FF2 characters next if this thread gets any attention.

Edit: NightGlow also serves a valuable purpose in both these matches, dont spam it, but use it wisely and it could change the tide of battle.

[supermence]

Nice story man i wish i knew how to write that much...

[ShineThatLight]

Just start typing, dont stop til you have said what you set out to say.

[RoboDestroyer]

Meh, I'd rather not type a wall of text (at least not until tomorrow) so I'll just comment on Shine's analysis.


WoL: I agree with what you said Shine but to be honest the Golbez player will struggle quite a bit if the WoL stays close the entire time. Its pretty hard to get an attack off when they can all be easily counter by his sheild attack. Radiant Sword is easily dodged by dashing towards them. Overall though not THAT bad and I agree with the 6-4 in Golbez's Favour.

Garland: Should Blaze spam be considered? Garland can easily spam that the entire time and completely own Golbez. The vertical tracking of Bardiche can easily counter Golbez's attempts to set up Attack System OR punish a whiffed attack. The good thing about this matchup is the only thing Garland has going for him with HP's is Blaze since the rest of his HP's will not hit (Cyclone will not protect him either).

Meh might as well move onto FF2.

Firion: Sheild Bash. This move can hurt Golbez quite a bit and eliminates his best move (Glare Hand). A strategy I usually go for is Attack System -> Rise Wave since they'll be more then likely to Shield Bash the Attack System and then get hit by the Rise Wave. This also works if Firion is trying to bait you into blocking a fire, simply block it and Rise Wave right before they Sheild Bash and slowly chip them down (or break). I say this is a 7-3 in Golbez's favour.

Emperor: I find this pretty easy actually. Golbez has enough range attacks to easily hit Emperor when he's casting or hiding behind a Flare. A good tip to note when fighting Emperor is DO NOT NIGHTGLOW FLARE UNLESS IT'S 100% SAFE. Usually the Emperor is trying to get you to Nightglow it so they can set a Thunder Crest on you and go in for an easy break. I say this is an 8 - 2 in Golbez's favour. This might be a little high but I'll ask Kraid about it, maybe he has a strategy I didn't think of o_o.

Shine feel free to contribute to the FAQ, it would be a great help if you focused on the Matchups though since that will be the hardest

[ShineThatLight]

I agree that a WoL can present plenty of problems if he sticks close, that is why proper spacing is so important.
As for Garland and his Blaze spam, he will generally be too high to Bardiche you, and if he isn't using Cyclone to protect himself, you can use Jumps and invincibility frames to close the gap and hit with a system attack.
One truth that applies to both Blaze and Radiant Sword, if launched from odd angles or the sides, it can be increasingly difficult to dodge, this is especially true for Radiant Swords.

Now on to your analysis of FF2.
Firion
You are pretty dead on, it is all about Rise Wave baiting. Stay out of range of Rope Knife and not too many huge problems will be presented.

Emperor
Ahh The Emperor, master of Heaven and Hell. This is probably one of my all time favorite Golbez match ups, along with Squall.
Doing combos in close quarters can sometimes present problems with the looming threat of Flare especially if it approaches from behind (from the front i do believe Cosmic Ray reflects it, atleast the final blow of CR does). Stick to the basics here, Rise Wave once again shines as it will hit Emperor up. This is good for numerous reasons. Emperor is less versatile in the air, and you will more than likely be put of of the Flare's trajectory. Thunder Crest is always a danger, but hitting with Glare Hand (or hitting at all) will dissipate the attack. One tactic that i love using vs The Emperor is Glare Hand after he lays the Flare (when he is standing still) then quickly RDC and Night Glow, this should do two things, reflect Flare and deal damage to The Emperor.
In numbers, 7-3 sounds about right, but i feel more comfortable with 65-35 :D

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Don't forget Garland's EX Mode. It can pretty much neutralizes all your combos, as well as turn the tide on your countering ways. I'd give it the 6-4 instead of the 65-35

[ShineThatLight]

Yeah... umm thanks for reading my post and all CG...
I swear i mentioned the Exmode thing, but yeah.
Taking that into account the play style for Garland vs Golbez doesnt make a difference when he is in EX. Either way you punish his HP very rarely and block his brave. It is what you do while fighting Garland, doesn't exactly change for vs ExGarland.

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

NEVER! Reading is for chumps. Especially when reading the responses of people who know their people. But anyways, block what BRV? Highbringer? Too fast to be consistently blocked. His air game? Built for punishment, so he's not meant to make the first move unless it's a trap(Which could be the case with Cyclone and Rise Wave), so he's likely to simply ignore blocking altogether. Lance Bullet?....Well, you got me there. And besides, dodge punishing becomes more of a moot point since he can just use Twist Drill or Blaze or Highbringer and ignore the punishing attack. I still say it's 6-4 instead of 65-35

[ShineThatLight]

You'll have to show me what you mean on that, since i haven't really had to deal with your impervious Garland.. hah
If we are still talking about EX mode, i know i wont be able to hit you in the air, dont really need to, if you come to the ground i can block your brave and punish
but sure 6-4 doesn't sound bad, and i don't really have an issue with it

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

(Truth be told, I only argue thus since that's the rating I gave the matchup in my Garland thread) As for the blocking thing, Highbringer is, essentially, Garland's fast attack. The one characters have, where it's possible to block, but rather hard to do so. See: Ascension, Double Cut, Swordstrike, Beat Fang, etc. I'm not saying you can't block it, just that it may be a bit hard to do so.

[ShineThatLight]

Replace Ascension with Dayflash and you are correct, except i still find Highbringer easier to block then those, you cannot compare it to stuff like Beat Fang.

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Aaaaaanyways, lets move on to someone else

[RoboDestroyer]

Shine regarding the Blaze spam. I don't think its going to be that easy to simply jump Blaze and counter since the Garland would be at a height where they can't counter. And once they lure you into the air your pretty much screwed because Garland's air game is pretty good.

I agree with Colonel about Highbringer, its VERY hard to block on reaction and it can actually hurt Golbez a bit since its hard to react. 6-4 sounds like a better number.

I'll start on FF3 after class ends

[Demitel]

I'll help Robo get this started by cuing a discussion on the little Zwiebelritter sonuvabitch.

I just went a few rounds against a CPU Onion Knight to get a feel for it, since I honestly don't fight many Onion Knights (and honestly, I'd probably default to Terra if I did). Most of my conjecture is probably applicable to what is lovingly referred to as "theory fighter," but it's not without basis.

Onion Knight has the potential to be a frustratingly hard opponent for Golbez, seeing as he has just the right pressure tools to severely hamper the black-clad Lunarian pimpdaddy.

-Thunder, while a bit predictable, has a faster start-up than Rise Wave if Onion Knight is actually in range to hit with it, and in most cases, it doesn't seem like a Glare Hand would land in a timely manner either. Additionally, doing a forward dodge over the Thunder to try to punish with a Float/Gravity System will most likely lead to the system attack not connecting, Onion Knight dodging, and a wide-open, vulnerable Golbez.

-Blizzard, while probably not as effective as a pressure tool as Thunder, has (as far as I noticed in my two or three matches) a bit of an multiple attack* property to it, leading block/Nightglow-happy Golbez users to take one right to the face if they're not careful with block-timings.

-Both Multi-Hit and Turbo Hit leave the hormone-raging cavalier wide open and punishable, allowing for a good block, Glare Hand, Nightglow, or Rise Wave with which to slap his snobby ass around. However, a good majority of Golbez's attacks (well, all of them except, in most cases, Glare Hand) will leave him wide-open to taking one of these two techniques to the face--especially from a vulturing Onion Knight.

Overall, playing a cautious game will get Golbez over-pressured, while playing too aggressively will result in punishment. Couple that with the fact that Onion Knight has the second-smallest hitbox in the game, making the system attacks even less viable than usual, and you have yourself a potentially difficult opponent.

I would probably put this one at 4-6, at least, in Onion Knight's favor. Of course, this is all a theoretical matchup and needs considerably more quantifiable evidence and testing.


*Edited due to following posts.

[Slayer0]

Blizzard hits twice on the initial attack, so if you move right after the first block you'll get hit. Maybe that's what you were encountering?

[Demitel]

Possibly. To be honest, that sounds about right. I didn't think the move was unblockable.

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Well, Glare Hand's Physical strike can knock away Thunder. Not sure on Bliuzzard though. But it you knock Thunder Away, you'll likely hit Onion mid move. But remember it only works if Onion is firing at you, not from DIRECTLY above you.

[ShineThatLight]

4-6 Does sound a bit right for OK vs Golbez. OK likes to play close range pressure games, or just catching you during ending lag on your attacks, he is a punisher in the truest sense. It does get a little dangerous for Golbez to whiff attacks.

CoD on the other hand i would say is the direct opposite match-up
6-4 Golbez's favor. It is relatively easy to catch a CoD if they overuse their brave attacks. Wrath can present very little problem, if it catches you on a Glare hand, you can dodge the HP hit and punish, it can't block Rise Wave, and it can block Attack System, but you can bait a block and then Rise Wave. All this, combined with the fact she is stationary with many of her attacks makes her a generally easy target, as with anyone that fights CoD watch for her EXmode and in this particular match-up watch for Fullisade particle beam at certain heights it can be difficult to punish.

No WoT on this one, sorry guys. Not a whole lot to say here.

[RoboDestroyer]

4-6 for Onion Knight vs Golbez is good. He can easily run circles around Golbez and easily punish whiffed attacks with his Melee or Thunder. I find it hard to smack Thunder away with Glare Hand and I usually fail and end up getting hit so I'd prefer not to do that >_>. I don't think I saw anyone say anything about Comet or Wind Shear so I'll add a little input on that. Comet can be scary for Golbez if you don't know how to counter it properly. Basically all you do is jump above OK and away from the attack and hit him with a laser. For Wind Shear either hit him with the magic part of Rise Wave or wait for it to end and counter with a Glare hand or Melee Rise Wave.

CoD: Uh I say this is a 5-5 IMO. Fullisade can pressure Golbez to stay into the air and can be used high enough for her to be safe from jump + attack. Once Golbez is in the air he is pretty much screwed. I also haven't found a consistant way to counter 0-Form (Not alot of experience fighting CoD). I've tried jumping into it and dodging behind her but it usually ends up hitting me. Maybe a timed Gravity Force? but that would be hard to pull off consistantly.

[ShineThatLight]

Actually Robo, a timed Gravity force works pretty damn well aslong as they aren't in EX (cancel out of 0-Form with a Wrath). If they use it while you are on the ground Rise Wave and Glare hand both land pretty easily (Rise Wave being easier) in the air, Gravity Force is your safest bet.

Also Robo, I stand firmly by the 6-4 Golby's favor. One attack that is relatively easy to dodge and that she has to be close to you to use in the first place wont swing the match-up IMO.

Edit: How i usually deal with it is to Jump as much as i can while she is starting the attack, dodge towards her, then use the tracking from my systems to hit her usually works every time.

[Demitel]

At the same time, it's hard to run away from Fusillade, if necessary. Also, Nightglow and 0-Form cancel each other out. Sure, it's not as much of an effective counter, but it's definitely a good canceler.

[ShineThatLight]

NightGlow will actually clash with many other things as well (Braver and Rough Divide)
The shield portion of the attack is quite high priority-wise, to bad it doesn't last very long :[
Keeping with the pattern we have going so far, shall we do FF4 next? Golbez mirrors and Cecil (lol)
I can type up a little something in a while, but i can't find the motivation right now ( FFT:WotL has drained me D: )

[Slayer0]

Cecil's Dark Cannon can block the magic portion of Glare Hand. In most cases Golbez will be out of range of Dark Cannon, and can usually dodge before DC can even hit.

[Demitel]

For Golbez versus Golbez, I'd say the matchup is probably about 5-5.

[ShineThatLight]

For Golbez versus Golbez, I'd say the matchup is probably about 5-5.

I lol'd
I'll put up a WoT a little later today.
In the mean time, if anyone has anything to say regarding Golbez's match-ups, feel free.

[Frethal]

The only thing I have to say in this is that Paladin Cecil's most moves are pretty predictable and if you don't get caught in either form's magic attacks, Cecil's going to have huge problems landing HP attacks.

[ShineThatLight]

Okay, guess i should get around to this finally!

Final Fantasy IV

Cecil
Cecil isn't too much of a problem from all I have fought. The most he can do is mindgame you into blocking a Paladin Force or spamming Searchlight from above your head, both of these tactics can be dealt with in the same ways. If you jump you can actually phase through the Paladin Force and smack Cecil in the face, this is useful because if you dodge, you probably won't hit Cecil. The same property applies to Searchlight (he will actually have to be within jumping range to effectively hit you with Searchlight usually so this isn't too bad). While fighting a Dark Knight Cecil, just stay out of Valiant Blow range (which isn't too hard) Dark Flame can be countered with a Rise Wave or Glare Hand if they are unwise enough to use it when you are landed on the ground. Dark Cannon blocks Glare Hand when it is first starting, but you usually have time to dodge again and punish. Strictly numbers, 7-3 Golbez's favor, maybe worse.

Golbez
Ah, I honestly hate this match. It comes all down to watching landing lag and seeing who can hit with Rise Wave (and sometimes Glare Hand) more. Play aggressively, but above all, play smart.
I'd say this is about 5-5 Golbez's favor, depending if Golbez is good enough to out-Golbez the other Golbez... GOLBEZ!?!

Final Fantasy 5 coming soon.

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

I ASK THAT ALL WHO ACTUALLY WANT TO TEST THESE MATCHUPS AND NOT JUST THEORY FIGHT PLEASE COME HERE

http://dissidiaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3881

[ShineThatLight]

Stop bitching like theory fighting doesn't help, we are sharing our experiences in these fights so that people can look and gauge how they may choose to fight. Don't like it, get out. Also, not to pull the 'Hey! that's against the rules!' card but, this is thread-hijacking, gee tee eff ohh

[Demitel]

EDIT: We all saw the thread, Gilgamesh, and Shine stated it rather summarily. These statements are founded in past experiences, whether or not it seems like we're just postulating one move against another. Tournament results are great and all, but in a game with a community this small, you can't expect them to be any more accurate than our speculation and comparisons at present (at least until there's considerably more data, which I don't think will come for a long time, if ever).


I'll throw out some observations and speculations on Exdeath. Feel free to corroborate or discount if you'd like.

Exdeath
Golbez's Offensive Game:

Golbez has a favorable matchup against Exdeath... at least in comparison to most of the cast. The problem with playing "theory fighter" with Exdeath is that Exdeath usually comes out on top. Of course, we know that through human error and mindgames, no Exdeath is going to be as perfect as so many have always presented him to be.

The major component, I believe, is Rise Wave. This move is basically the gravy that drowns out Exdeath's mashed potatoes. As long as you're attacking with the magic portion, Exdeath can't block and counter. It's pretty standard that most Exdeath players will have High Guard, Omni Guard, Reverse Polarity, and Black Hole equipped, so Exdeath's punishment options are severely slim. The major downsides of the move are that it has incredibly limited vertical range and it becomes less viable against an offensive, in-your-face, Reverse-polarity-spamming Exdeath. So if you have a sky-camp happy Exdeath, frustration might lead one to jump into the sky to seek vengeance or throw out an Attack System, which brings us to the next point...

...Attack System. Unfortunately, this is the move that Exdeath renders virtually obsolete. The chances of not landing a frontal attack and therefore being countered with a High Guard are disparagingly slim. It's best to either use it incredibly sparingly in a situation where you're sure you won't be punished or just forgo the attack entirely.

Glare Hand, however, while blockable, is still not invalidated entirely. Granted, throwing it around carelessly will just get you High Guarded or Omni Guarded. However, it works as a wonderful punishing move for when Exdeath is lowering a guard or initiating a Black Hole or a Reverse Polarity from a distance. It's still as great as ever, but use it cautiously.

Gravity System and Float System are, for once, slightly more safe than usual. Being a generally defensive character, a rough majority of the time, Exdeath won't be able to punish a whiffed Aerial System before the Golbez player will be able to dodge out of the way. They are, however, still heavily inaccurate as ever, and the attacks are still blockable by Exdeath's guards (although in most cases, the initial portion of the attack will leave you staggered after a block, while the second will tear through Exdeath's guard, leaving neither player in a particularly advantageous situation).

Gravity Force? Yeah, probably not. Sure, I decry it more than most Golbez users, and it does have its uses, but I really can't think of how it would help in this battle at all.

Things to Watch for:

Reverse Polarity, possibly coupled with Snooze and Lose is Exdeath's biggest asset against Golbez, I would say. If the Exdeath player gets aggressive with Reverse Polarity, and Golbez initiates a dodge-fest, then the BRV game could be rebalanced slightly to Exdeath's favor. Effective counters, as far as I know, would be trying to either look for an opening before Exdeath's dodge-cancels and try to land a melee Rise Wave or Glare Hand or utilize Golbez's jumps, then a Multi-Air Slide or see if you can Omni Air Dash out of the trap and resume a distance game.

Golbez's initial melee attacks really work more against him than in his favor in this matchup, so a little bit of mid-range distance is the best game I can imagine playing. Cosmic Rays are important, as the counter/block effect of Nightglow won't serve much purpose in this battle, and Genesis Rock, if you don't catch Exdeath in the start-up, will leave you begging for a Grand Cross (or even an Omni Guard > Grand Cross Counter).

While playing it safe, I think this match-up is actually in Golbez's favor, with either a rough 60-40 or 65-35 at most.

Bartz

I hate to pull a Kumo, but... "Holy Spam. GG."
Honestly, every single one of Bartz's moves that isn't Holy will either leave him right in Golbez's court to watch the very open calls to block and counter or to punish. Each one of Bartz's attacks will leave him completely at Golbez's mercy except, as I stated, Holy. Holy is the calling card in this match and Holy is what leaves Golbez bent over like fresh meat in a prison cell. For an effective win, simply hide in the air directly above Golbez and initiate the spam. Even with Free Air Dash or Air Dash and some method of chasing Bartz, Golbez has no real way to punish a magical attack like that in the air. This is easily 70-30, Bartz or worse.

[ShineThatLight]

Thank you so much Demi! that was beautifully said. I agree on nearly every point, and as sad as it makes it, it is pretty much GG holy spam.
All you can really do is punish mistakes made by Bartz. Exdeath it is easy to just stick to Rise Wave and bait out counters, I don't mind this fight at all.

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Yeah, but recruitment is low and it's not like I don't already contribute to this thread and am just here to spam. So, to FURTHER validate my being here, I'd like to point out that Golbez can counter RP with a nice Nightglow. Not all the time, but enough that pressuring can't be done as well as it could be. Not to mention that Nightglow can be hard to bock if used point blank: I' pretty sure that if Exdeath had the time to Omni block the physical, he could just as easily dodge and counter the HP part. Plus, lets not forget Genesis Rock's ignoring of guards....sort of. You get Exdeath caught near the swirling, he'll get hit if he tries a counter. Getting hit by rocks on the way up can be tricky to counter as well. While it's not foolproof like, say Shift Break or Rise wave, it does a good job of getting around said guards

[ShineThatLight]

Yeah, but recruitment is low and it's not like I don't already contribute to this thread.

Okay, I'll point this out because I feel the need to.
You are planning on doing every character, and at least 10 matches per character. If my math is right, this is 4840 matches, and this is purely for data collection it isn't even under the guise of a tournament. You are effectively eliminating the only fun part about data collection. No matter how empirical this is suppose to be, I doubt it will be any more accurate, it will just be more impersonal.

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

No one said it was going to be fun, but I feel we need to do this at some point. These matchup threads are helpful, but are often incomplete. Yes, a lot of people have done these matchups before, but a lot of people have different experiences with the individuals behind the player, which can lead to different results. All I want to do is get a bunch of people together(helping to account for styles, which influence decisions quite a bit) and get some concrete evidence.

[Demitel]

Yeah, I'd be happy to contribute where I can when I can, but as Shine and I have both said, it's a truly daunting task to compile that much data. I'll do what I can, though.

Back on topic, I'd thought about the Nightglow vs. Reverse Polarity bit, but I don't think it's reliable enough to be as effective of a counter. I don't imagine the block-stagger from RP is enough to override Nightglow, I would think either the start-up or cooldown would be too long, leaving too much of a vulnerability. However, the start-up on Reverse Polarity is also a little long and leaves Exdeath static for a while, leaving him open as well. I dunno. I'd like to do some testing on it to see how it works out.

[RoboDestroyer]

Hm Exdeath. What I usually do is use Attack System to bait a High Guard then Rise Wave... it usually works too.

RP vs Nightglow is a tough one, its mostly mindgames on Exdeath's part since he can choose to either hit you and hope you don't Nightglow or simply go right past you and punish a whiffed Nightglow. To be honest I say this is a 5-5 matchup. Both sides will have to depend on mindgames to win, map also plays a huge factor here

[ShineThatLight]

ATTN: Everyone!

I had a epiphany on how to fight Terra, it won't swing the matchup drastically in our favor, but it is a step!
I'll type something up/vids later

[Demitel]

Yeah, it's still not favorable, but at least he has something to work with.

Here's a video. I dunno how much it'll help, but there are a few instances of what I think you're talking about. I'll leave it to you to point them out, though, lest I confuse myself and others. The only catch is that my Terra playing style is slightly different than the norm. Rather than run away and camp, I'm incredibly aggressive a lot of the times (of course, it also depends on who I'm fighting)--something I've only ever seen replicated by Kraid. Anyway, here goes:

YouTube- Dissidia Final Fantasy: ShineThatLight (Golbez) vs. Demitel (Terra) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaZ72U3A5EU)

[RoboDestroyer]

I see nothing really special there. Sure Glare Hand can smack Blizzara and hit them at the same time but like Demi said his Terra playstyle is different. I would personally camp up top and snipe the Golbez where he simply can't do anything. If people play like Demi there then of course Golbez has a chance, he was within Golbez's range almost the entire fight

[ShineThatLight]

Well of course the Terra vs Golbez match up will NEVER be in our favor, but little things like that, that can help even a little are good.

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

I already knew about this. Made a mention once or twice, but it's mostly only viable against ground magics and OK's Thunder

[Hollowed]

Glare Hand is best against Blizzara because it has fast startup. I think Rise Wave is a more reliable counter against Holy, although it's safer to block it. Depending on distance a quickly chained Cosmic Ray will avoid the other Holies.

It's probably not allowed in tournaments but if Terra charges Meltdown, Gravity Force teleports you to her where you can EX guard Meltdown back in her face. Otherwise, Nightglow is a risky counter to Meltdown.

[RoboDestroyer]

It's probably not allowed in tournaments but if Terra charges Meltdown, Gravity Force teleports you to her where you can EX guard Meltdown back in her face. Otherwise, Nightglow is a risky counter to Meltdown.That would be considered an EX Link I believe so it's legit.

[ShineThatLight]

That would be considered an EX Link I believe so it's legit.

No one seems to get what an Ex Link is :[ this saddens me
Anyways, that is not an Ex Link, it is a defensive ex counter, I believe it was back in dissidence that said if you exguard someone and they indirectly take damage (such as exguarding someone, and they stagger backwards into an already placed Flare it will be fine)
So far i don't think anyone has problems with it?

[RoboDestroyer]

Meh is gets confusing with all these stupid terms people come up with for these things. I mean come on, EX Link? wtf

[Katsu]

So what's the matchup between Kefka and Golbez?!?

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

So what's the matchup between Kefka and Golbez?!?

This is a rare moment where one word sums up everything: PAIN!

[Katsu]

This is a rare moment where one word sums up everything: PAIN!

For who?

/10chars

[ShineThatLight]

This is a rare moment where one word sums up everything: PAIN!

This is a rare moment where i agree with CG

Seriously, any Kefka worth his salt will absolutely dominate a Golbez player. Same could be said for Terra, but i prefer fighting Terra over Kefka.

I'm sure someone will write the FFVI match ups (I'll do it eventually, just don't feel like WoT'ing right now.)

[Spike]

I agree with the above posters. :D Since any good kefka will constantly be in the air (though not all times) and releasing WWFs, then it will certainly dominate Golbez since he is a ground type character. Also, his air BRV attacks are not that good since it doesn't have much vertical tracking and as such, kefka can easily punish those since those attacks have cooldowns greater than his ground attacks. Also, I don't think golbez can punish the laggy start of kefka's attacks since he will mostly be laggy also since it is in the air. Correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

[Demitel]

I see nothing really special there. Sure Glare Hand can smack Blizzara and hit them at the same time but like Demi said his Terra playstyle is different. I would personally camp up top and snipe the Golbez where he simply can't do anything. If people play like Demi there then of course Golbez has a chance, he was within Golbez's range almost the entire fight

Yeah, I know it's a bit off-topic and irrelevant at this point, but I generally don't play like a dick. Yes, I could have just sat up top, spamming Holy, Meltdown, and Blizzara, but I don't get on AHP/Kai to boost my ego about how easily I can win bad matchups. I do it to have fun while playing a video game.


Back on topic, I think you pretty much called it, Spike. Both of the FFVI characters can simply hang out above Golbez and whittle away at his BRV or use their respective BRV attacks to chain into successfull HP attacks. Should he attempt to pursue either character into the air, each of his laggy attacks have horrible tracking and will leave him open for punishment. Meanwhile, Genesis Rock is easily punished by Trine from Kefka and while Terra's isn't as safe, she can either opt to dodge above if she's in close range and follow with Meltdown or punish with a Blizzara or Holy if she's at a distance (while factoring in his cooldown, that is, as the projectiles will be blocked if casted turning the initial parts of the attack). I think that's really all there is to say on the subject. Shall we pin a number on this and move on to Cloud/Sephiroth?

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Hmmm...I'm encouraged to give Kefka and Terra 8-2. Thoughts?

[RoboDestroyer]

Yeah, I know it's a bit off-topic and irrelevant at this point, but I generally don't play like a dick. Yes, I could have just sat up top, spamming Holy, Meltdown, and Blizzara, but I don't get on AHP/Kai to boost my ego about how easily I can win bad matchups. I do it to have fun while playing a video game.


I agree with you Demi but I'm pretty sure when discussing matchups BOTH players would be trying their best to win, no matter how cheap it has to be. Going easy on your opponent isn't helping the matchup info much.

Anyways back on topic.

Golbez vs Cloud- Cloud doesn't have much going for him with this matchup, it's completely mindgames on his part. All of his attacks are easily block, dodged or countered. I find a good strategy when fighting Cloud is to walk away from him, this gives you distance from him and makes it easier to block/dodge his attacks. I really don't see what Cloud can do to a good Golbez player, even EVA couldn't do much other then fire pressure (which doesn't work so well)

[Demitel]

Yeah, but the "discussing matchups" part didn't come until after we had finished fighting. Before that, it was just friendly casuals.

Also, to add to the Cloud thing: provided you're on land, a Braver usually means a free Rise Wave. :P

[ShineThatLight]

I would actually love to fight EVA's Cloud again, since i'm not as new to AHP now..
Anyways, Cloud really (from my experience) has a harsh time versus Golbez, the lack of speed and distance greatly impacts Cloud's game, while it is unsafe to play versus Golbez on the ground, Cloud will more than likely be forced into the air where he is much easier to deal with. Much like Squall, this character will suffer when he is limited strictly to the air.

My thoughts on Sephy... well he does a lot better at fighting Golbez than Cloud, he has some distance on his brave game, and does pretty damn well in the air (especially hovering above a planted Golbez's head). Stick to your links in the truest sense here, focus on whittling away his HP before he can successfully dismember you. The longer this match drags on (once again, much like Squall) the more chance Sephy has to completely dominate you. Shadow Flare spam can DEFINITELY get annoying, space yourself properly and try to take the high ground if there is any. All in all watch your blocks and don't get nervous, keep your cool and space yourself properly is (once again) key. This isn't one of the hardest fights for Golbez, but it is harder than some. Overall a very general 6-4 swinging in EITHER way depending on stage choice a good stage with higher platforms/low ceiling will give that six to Golbez, stages like Planet's Core or Order's Sanctuary with their lack of well placed footholds will stack the odds against you.

[RoboDestroyer]

I'm going to start working on my FAQ again. Let's get this matchup topic revived.

Golbez vs Sephiroth - This can be a tough battle for Golbez based on how the Sephiroth plays, if he SF spams it'll make the battle alot harder for Golbez. On the other hand if he doesn't use SF it'll make the battle quite easy IMO. When fighting Sephiroth it is EXTREMELY important to keep your distance since his attacks can easily punish your startup time (mostly Attack System). A good point to remember is that Sephiroth will struggle to hit you with HP attacks as long as you dont get hit by SF (SC -> HL should never work as long as Golbez stays grounded). HG can also be a scary move for Golbez but he can do 2 things to counter this: Jump and counter the recovery, or Nightglow it.

Overall this matchup would be 5-5 on a normal player and 7-3 for Sephiroth on a SF heavy player

[ShineThatLight]

Robo, keep in mind whenever Sephy uses a standalone HP attack, Golbez can dash away and Glarehand or Rise Wave punish.
When Sephy gets SF happy, go ahead and try and take whatever high ground you can. If no higher ground is available, then try and time your Attack Systems or Glare Hands properly.
For the most part, SC -> Heaven's Light will rarely land, because if you touch the ground you can Jump til you escape. Don't be afraid to play defensively, try not to dodge unless you hit with an attack. Rise Wave is great in this matchup, as is Attack System. Space yourself properly and watch for the ending animations on Sephiroth's dashes.

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

I don't know about the Sc-HL not landing. Jumping is one of Golbez's options for most dodging out of stuff, specifically SF, and while he can block a SC, he CAN still be hit. after a Jump, he'll likely be in range for a SC+HL combo+landing lag. There's also HGC to consider too. Plus, even though it woul be risky, Octaslash could potentially be used to pressure Golbez with it's powerful tracking against ground characters. He isn't going to be doing it often, but Sephiroth isn't out of options when it comes to landing HP attacks.

[RoboDestroyer]

I still say Octaslash isn't too hard to dodge though Colonel. Your supposed to jump (prefered) it OR if they don't space properly dodge backwards and counter/Nightglow. Colonel we'll need to play sometime so I can try this matchup a bit more.

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

What are we up to, Squall? OK lets see....

Squall is tough to measure. The obvious importance is that Squall's BRV game is huge and will almost certainly guarantee that both He'll be up to 9999 and Golbez will have to do chipping damage. This means that Golbez will have to be super careful, which while not something Golbez can't do, is still annoying. His 9999 BRV total(Or substitute high number) means that if Golbez wants end this quick, he'll need an early break to do so. Otherwise, be prepared for a slugfest.

On to ground game. Squall's ground game is notorious for being safe. Too bad Golbez's powers of ground control out-safe Squall's. The 5 most likely moves to see are Upper Blues, Thunder Barret, Solid Barrel, Blizzard Barret and Blasting Zone. Thunder Barret can be moved around, Solid Barrel's range is so minimal that it's not a threat unless combo'd into and Blizard Barret can be Glare Handed away. That leaves Upper Blues and Blasting Zone. Upper Blues can surprise you if you aren't careful, but you've got Melee Glare Hand to help knock people away, so you're about even in that regard. Blasting Zone clashes with Nightglow, but it's fast enough that he can potentially catch you off guard. I'd rather just dodge it.

Vs. Squall's ground game means you have a very small window to punish him. So your weapon of choice should be Glare Hand. Either move away and Glare hand him out of range, or Melee Glare Hand him and knock him away. Attack System can also do the job, but it's a tad slower and you need that speed.

Squall's air game really, really hurts. Beat Fang is the giant squid in the room, so lets start there. Beat fang will counter everything if you venture into the air. Period. Back to ground game. Beat Fang can counter both Rise Wave and Attack System's lag time, but countering Glare Hand is about 50-50. It again remains your best option. Heel Crush is somewhat of a wild card. The obvious mindgames potential can hurt if Squall is doing it well, particularly if you try to use Nightglow. However, Rise Wave and Attack System Melee attack would be able to hit him mid tumble. Glare hand probably could to, but since he's likely to be coming at you from a higher angle, it's hitbox may miss entirely. Stick with Rise Wave for best results. Mystic Flurry is probably your 2nd biggest threat. While it isn't totally accurate and leaves Squall open, because the shots stay after Squall if hit, it can be hard to punish sometimes. In addition, it's very easy for Squall to HP chain it if you get hit, which is, of course, bad. The upside is that while it does pressure you, I wouldn't say it does a good enough job of getting you into the air. Lastly, there is Rough Divide. This shouldn't be that great of a concern, since a missed RD usually means a free hit for you. You only concern is that it does a decent job of punishing dodges and this can hurt if you aren't careful.

Vs. Squall air game. Be very patient. Let Squall make the first mistake and stick to countering. Glare Hand pressure is OK at long range, but avoid Attack and Rise, as it's not uncommon for a Squall to OAD and Beat Fang you mid move.

I'd like to not post a number, but I'd say 51-49 Golbez simply because this is a matchup that is VERY 'anything can happen'-esc