FFT tournament dicusion

[supermence]

Well i know this is a old game but i just thought about it and soon when i get my Xlinkai i could make a tournament so talk about things that should be banned or limited. First of all should Onion knight and Dark knight be allowed? (alowed to vote for both) Counter ability allowed?

[kiaxiou]

well i am up for that but face to face match i am also from puerto rico so we can meet and do a war through the lions xD i would ban dark knight since onion knight is worthless without the onion items gained through out the online game

[Wedge]

Normally in FFT multiplayer play, I believe only generics (No Ramza, Agrias ect) are allowed and the Calculator class/subskill is banned. Oh and Bladegrasp. That crap is out. I'm not sure if I'm missing anything. I think there is sometimes a level cap as well.

OK is garbage even with full Onion Gear. Its just a fast tank that can only attack and is immune to status with no subskills/reactions ect... :/

As for DK, I haven't experimented with it in multiplayer play. So I can't give input.

[K´Genesis]

Entice and Move+3/Teleport are also usually banned.
But I´ve yet to see tournaments with DKs and OKs in it.

[Wedge]

Entice and Move+3/Teleport are also usually banned.
But I´ve yet to see tournaments with DKs and OKs in it.

Ah K'Gen you're experienced in FFT multiplayer? And where have you seen FFT tournaments?

[K´Genesis]

Here in Brazil, there´s a dedicated group that promotes and organizes tournaments of FFT. So, I had the opportunity of playing a few of them(actually placing 3rd in last year´s nationals, out of +/- 60 people).
To tell you guys the truth, the list of banned stuff is quite long, in order to balance the game itself.
Things like Holy, Zodiark, Chaos Blade, Javelin/Escutcheon II and the likes have barely seen action around here.

[Wedge]

Here in Brazil, there´s a dedicated group that promotes and organizes tournaments of FFT. So, I had the opportunity of playing a few of them.
To tell you guys the truth, the list of banned stuff is quite long, in order to balance the game itself.
Things like Holy, Zodiark, Chaos Blade, Javelin/Escutcheon II and the likes have barely seen action around here.

Well thats a given. Hey at least they're passionate about balance. :)
Do they have a website with their list?

I've recently picked up 1.3 so I haven't played vanilla FFT in a while.

[K´Genesis]

Well...they have.
But it´s in Portuguese.
I can translate it to you guys and post it here tomorrow so you can have an idea and discuss. Kewl?

[Wedge]

Well there is babel fish and google translate but be my guest. :)
I'd like to see what they've done.

[kiaxiou]

well also special players like ramza, mustadio, tg cid, etc etc should be banned not to be on tournaments like we do here at puerto rico

[K´Genesis]

Ok, guys...this is the list from the ´09 Brazilian Nationals of FFT(still the PSX version, because of technical issues):

Lista de Itens Banidos(List of banned items):

Armas(Weapons)

Excalibur
Chaos Blade
Faith Rod
Dragon Whisker
Javelin II

Elmos(Helms)

Thief Hat
Ribbon

Armaduras(Armors)

Maximilian
Rubber Costume
Secret Clothes
Robe of Lords

Acessórios(Accessories)

Feather Mantle
Santiemson
Chantage

Lista de Habilidades Banidas(List of banned abilities):

Ação(Actions/i.e.: Job Skills)

Math Skill(full command set)
Elixir
Holy
Quick
Invite
Zodiac
Muramasa
Kikuichimoji
Masamune
Chirijiraden
Throw: Ragnarok
Throw: Chirijiraden
Throw: Scorpion Tail

Reação(Reaction)

Auto Potion
Blade Grasp

Suporte(Support)

<nenhuma>(none)

Movimento(Movement)

Teleport
Move+3



Any questions?

[Wedge]

So wait they use the PSX version instead? Do they use 2 CPU teams instead of actually fighting or 2 players live via world debug mode?

Oh and I like the list. A lot. They put a lot of thought into it.
Does it allow only generics?

[supermence]

Hey what do you guys think about rent and steal abilities?

[K´Genesis]

@Wedge: Yeah, only generics, 4-man team, forgot about that. And the matches are done via world debug mode, stage selection is random.
That list was thought of for months, after a lot of testing. Basically inhibits everything that can make any character a "one-man army".
EDIT: I forgot Entice/Invite and Zodiac/Zodiark. Fixed.

@supermence: What do I think? Let´s just say I got my 3rd place at the nationals using an entire team of Gunner-Thiefs with Arts Of War(if you can´t steal it, break it...xD). After that, everybody started loving Maintenance/Safeguard.

[supermence]

So im probably test that with my friend so cya for now im gonna practice.

[Wedge]

Oh and K'Gen, why ban Auto Potion? Reason I ask is if everyone plays at lv99 the HP limit kinda makes Auto Potion a bit null IMO not to mention most characters (Two Swords/Two hands/Magic comes to mind) can one-shot people anyway. I mean if the level cap is at like 35-40ish I can understand the reasoning.

[K´Genesis]

For a long time, that was highly debated. I mean, even a stock of X-Potions wouldn´t be enough in the face of a OHKO, right?
Until someone came up with the brilliant idea of putting three Knights with guns and Auto-Potion as Reaction, sided with a Wizardiator.
Long story short, unless you have a team of four Two Swords-Monks rushing down at once, the three Knights form a sturdy barrier to let the Wizardiator do his thing, while crippling your Speed and MP. Even then, you could give up one gun to give a Knight a good Shield and Defender for parry-madness, with Throw/Jump to replace the need for a gun.
If you have mages try to summon stuff, the guns and Thrower/Jumper will take care of them in one round. If you have Ninjas/One handed Monks, the Wizardiator can put them to sleep or surround himself in Knights to Flare his ass.

Since there was potential for immortality(on the Knights´ part), the community opted for the ban-hammer. Depending on the team, there was 0 possibility of victory against this team, unless we banned very specific stuff that wouldn´t be relevant, outside of this particular setup.

[Wedge]

Wow. Well put Mr. K'Gen. Good reasoning. If anyone wanted to start an AHP tournament for FFTWotL this ruleset would be an excellent template.

The discussion on all of this makes me want to play competitive FFT more and more :)

[K´Genesis]

I wouldn´t mind organizing one. But I´d have to see the potential in Dark Knights and Onion Knights on tournament environment to have a solid opinion on them.
And about reset issues(a.k.a. the Mindblast trick), to not have powerhouses stronger than unique characters.

[Wedge]

I wouldn´t mind organizing one. But I´d have to see the potential in Dark Knights and Onion Knights on tournament environment to have a solid opinion on them.
And about reset issues(a.k.a. the Mindblast trick), to not have powerhouses stronger than unique characters.

Yeah the Level down trick is gonna be hard to police. However an edited save could be provided to entrants from the TO so stat manipulation isn't an issue.

I think Onion Knights are fine because of their lack of... well everything. All they have is Status Immunity and beefy stats. They don't even have access to subskills, reactions, movement or support abilities. But I could be proven wrong in terms of their usefulness.

DK though is iffy. Can't say much on it though as well.

[rshadowkirby]

i have a general question if you dont mind
why are some summons (like zodiark) banned while the others are not
is it because the summon itself has too high base power?

[Rei-N]

Wait wait, did I hear my IVALICE calling to me?! >D

Okay, so I've played a few ADHP tournies with FFTWotL and some along what K'Gen has so handily typed out for us all. One of the deadliest things around of course is a no/lil' Faith team with Vehemence or Darkness abilities. While finicky, the Vehemence ability doubles your attack power with the side-effect of your defense being chopped in half as well. People like to throw in kamikaze warriors who will one-shot a team very easily with speed and silliness like that. Not to mention the Darkness ability set can recover lost HP or MP.

Think a potent Gafgarion in almost everybody. Combined with Vehemence, Dark Knights can be glass cannons or freakin' walls (when subbed.) WotL so helpfully has a rule that automatically bans Arithmeticks (Calculation,) so that's easy to defend.

Generics only sounds real good, especially with Meliadoul's huge buff. Her own skillset now does damage without the appropriate equipment on the foe, killing quite easily. The new perfumes and items probably need to be banned or checked up on as well, but that's up to the community to decide.

I shall face you all with my uber Priestess! >.< b

@Kirbs: You can easily one-shot a person with Zodiark at 15-20 m.atk. Provided how easy it is to raise stats to 99 in this game, Zodiark can easily OHKO or 2HKO a 1 faith person. Or at least, that's what I've seen thus far.

[Wedge]

True True. Characters like Agrias, Mustadio, Orlandeau, Balthier, well.... pretty much ALL non-generics out class the generics. So they are out.

Great points on Dark Knight Rei. So should Vehemence and DK job/subskill be banned then?

Oh shit. Eatos is back :P

[K´Genesis]

God, everytime I see a new post, I feel sillier.
There´s one extra rule I forgot, that doesn´t involve skills per se.
Every character starts with 70 BRV/70 FTH, no exceptions. This gives great relevance to Oracles and Mediators(outside of Invite/Entice, of course) on the battlefield, also stopping BRV/FTH-dependant combos from the get-go. That´s also why Faith Rod is banned, in case anyone wondered about it.

If uniques were allowed, we would only be seeing Orlandeau, Mel, Balthier and Beowulf in every battle probably. Not cool.
I´m not rock-solid on Vehemence. Like Rei said, characters do become glass cannons. It´s a double-edged sword. But I don´t know how harmful can the defense reduction be, if at all. Monks and Ninjas with it might be OHKOing much easily, I guess, so it´s something to look at.
Although, if it´s possible to have a 2-Oracle/2-Lancer team(my WotL generic team...xD) terrorizing the battlefield, I can imagine one or two Oracles supporting DKs for major havoc.
But we could try to analyze the DK´s skills one by one to see their potential in Multiplayer battles. I see OKs being used as tanks, but they do have the major drawback of not having skills, thus giving me no reason to see them banned.

New perfumes and items probably will join the ban-list, the way I see it, expect for very few(Ras Algheti, for example).

[Rei-N]

As a good tournament base, though will be difficult to acquire for some people; we should play FFT: WotL 1.3. So far, I'm loving the rebalances and as I thought, Vehemence is OUT. >.>

[Wedge]

As a good tournament base, though will be difficult to acquire for some people; we should play FFT: WotL 1.3. So far, I'm loving the rebalances and as I thought, Vehemence is OUT. >.>

2nded on the 1.3 ^^^^ :)

[Wiegraf]

Wow this is the first FF game I ever played. I have one insane file. Worked on it for years, have like 40 Chaos Blades and so much awesome equipment and major stat grinds its not even funny.

[ShineThatLight]

2nded on the 1.3 ^^^^ :)

3rd'd on the 1.3 tourny :D

[Bedabest]

I know this is a dying post so i will make this quick. I would ban first strike it's broken. Punishs them for do physical attacks plus they do not get a chance to hit with thier attack. Also i would ban all stealing and breaking equipment skills (thats just unfair)

[supermence]

I know this is a dying post so i will make this quick. I would ban first strike it's broken. Punishs them for do physical attacks plus they do not get a chance to hit with thier attack. Also i would ban all stealing and breaking equipment skills (thats just unfair)

This tournament is canceled obviously, I think we should keep this thread avalable for discussions though.