Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[Mikeee]

Anyone here play this abomination of a video game?

[Gabranth]

Abomination? Are you looking for a fight or something? Your smack talking possibly one of the BEST Fighting games ever made. I'm a Tornament level Ike Player. I've got about 2 Tornament wins under my belt. So yes i would say that i play Brawl. I will admit though i miss Melee but Brawl is just as well made as it was. I will say if i didn't play Melee First Brawl would be where melee is in my eyes. Nuff said.

[Mikeee]

It's an abomination. I've been playing less and less lately but I also have tournament experience, with my last tournament being E.C.R.C. Game Unicon / S.N.E.S.

it's enough of a force to even call Brawl a good game, but to call it one of the best fighting games ever made is just laughable. Sweet, I love unbalanced game with an abnormally low number of ATs that rewards techniques such as camping and stalling far more than any other fighting game ever, while still managing to lack any serious technical matters! That's AMAZING!

[Rey Magnus]

Meta Knight is where it's at.

[Gabranth]

The point to almost all fighting games is Strategy. Just because you can Camp and Stall just means that your playing the game to it's fullest. Don't think just because you find it cheap acctually makes it that way.

[Rey Magnus]

The point to almost all fighting games is Strategy. Just because you can Camp and Stall just means that your playing the game to it's fullest. Don't think just because you find it cheap acctually makes it that way.

From what I've seen from actual tournament matches, you can't counter a camping Meta Knight. Which is the character I usually see played. I mean you gotta be HORRIBLE if you suck with Meta Knight.

[Mikeee]

I was searching for the video of Plank where he stalled out his entire match, but I'll just have to settle for showing the video that demonstrates how Metaknight can stall:

Link

[NeroMD]

Snake is like the closest who can counter MK right?

[Mikeee]

Snake goes around 45-55 against Metaknight. Other characters that do decent are Ice Climbers and if the match is being played on Final Destination, Diddy Kong. Falco would be decent against him, but as Dojo proved in one of the late matches of Genesis, Metaknight can air stall so well that it's near impossible for the Falco to win. Metaknight has no real "Counterpicks", or characters that have a significant advantage over him.

[Maester]

Peach > All

[Gabranth]

Unless you wait them out...Marth Counter or Ike Counter. I've seen it done...though i've also seen a match like that go on for hours because neither would let up.

[Mikeee]

Peach is my main lol.

And that's why there's timers in matches... and the counters aren't that good because they're easy to predict and punish lol.

[Rey Magnus]

Unless you wait them out...Marth Counter or Ike Counter. I've seen it done...though i've also seen a match like that go on for hours because neither would let up.

Depends on who was playing these Marths and Meta Knights. :/

[Gabranth]

And Kirby's Inhale takes Priority over all of Metaknights Attacks...I've tested it just no one ever uses Kirby...no Idea why. I'm fairly good with him and once you catch and Absorb a Metaknight you just deal back a little Whirlwind pain.

[Kite]

Yoshi is one of thee best Metaknight counters, and Iwon a few local tournaments with Game and Watch, cuz hes awesome, and Kirby, but I stopped playing since I started Dissidia, I only play once in a while now

[Gabranth]

dissidia is a far better game than Smash Bros that is a fact.

[Mikeee]

Yoshi doesn't actually counter MK. He has 1 grab release that makes the matchup bearable. That's about it. And Egg SPAM.

[icyie04]

^ You know quite a lot about this "abomination". >_>

As for me, since I only play with my friends, I play Pikachu and Ike quite often :P

[Gabranth]

Games a lot better when your just playing with friends. No worries about stats and stuffs

[Mikeee]

^ You know quite a lot about this "abomination". >_>

As for me, since I only play with my friends, I play Pikachu and Ike quite often :P

I spent like 6 months playing no game but this one, I'd like to think I know a thing or two about this horrible game, yes.

[Rey Magnus]

Mike is only into Brawl fo' da MONEH!

Just because someone enjoys a community and likes to talk about a game, doesn't mean they like it, you know? I enjoyed CvS2's community and played the game for a long time, until I released it really is a bullshit game. Still like the community, but all of them moved to SFIV, so I don't need to play it ever again.

Mike feels the same about Brawl.

[Gates]

I play Smash. I main Dedede and secondary MK who I also usually use in doubles. I've tried picking up other characters (including Snake, Wario, Marth, Game & Watch, and Sheik) to cover bad matchups, but none of them have ever really worked out, so I usually just go Dedede all day in tourneys.


Snake is like the closest who can counter MK right?Yes, but it's debatable just how well he does against MK. A lot of people (myself included) think it's 50:50 but a lot more people think it's 55:45 MK's advantage. MK also has other matchups that are sort of even but MK has the tools to beat them. He can air camp Falco, Diddy, and Ice Climbers (he can also plank Falco if it's legal) and he outranges Wario on pretty much all of his attacks so he can win if he has tight spacing. I've heard that Kirby does ok against MK but I always use Dedede against Kirbys so I wouldn't know anything about the matchup. Snake is the closest MK will get to a bad matchup. Even Mew2King (best MK in the world and best player in the world) said that he's tired of using his MK against Ally (best Snake in the world who has beaten M2K on several occasions) and that he was going to go Dedede (a debatable Snake counter) if they met in Grand Finals (of course they both lost to ADHD's Diddy, but still).


Peach > AllPeach was my Melee main. I still love her. Too sexy.:)


dissidia is a far better game than Smash Bros that is a fact.Meh. I treat them both with about equal respect and spend about the same amount of time on both of them (well, with Dissidia I have to level more so obvioulsy I'm spending more time on it right now but you see what I mean).


^ You know quite a lot about this "abomination". >_>He just said he went to SNES, which was this past weekend and also a major tournament (maybe he's butthurt for not placing lol jk jk).


Mike is only into Brawl fo' da MONEH!

Just because someone enjoys a community and likes to talk about a game, doesn't mean they like it, you know? I enjoyed CvS2's community and played the game for a long time, until I released it really is a bullshit game. Still like the community, but all of them moved to SFIV, so I don't need to play it ever again.

Mike feels the same about Brawl.This basically sums it up pretty well. A lot of people in the Smash community (mainly Melee players) complain about how they don't like Brawl for various reasons. It requires no techskill, it's slower, it punishes you for being aggressive, Metaknight is overpowered, too many characters have chaingrabs, etc. They're all certainly true but the Smash community is solid and unless the community in a particular area really collectively hates Brawl to the point of not even wanting to talk about it, let alone host tourneys for it (and believe me that does happen), you'll see a lot of people who play both Melee and Brawl and enter both tourneys just because a lot of other people in the community are doing it.

I agree with the people who say that Melee is a more intense game overall and I'd definitely play Melee if I had anything slightly resembling techskill (seriously, my techskill is so bad that I can't even wavedash :().


I was searching for the video of Plank where he stalled out his entire match, but I'll just have to settle for showing the video that demonstrates how Metaknight can stall:This is an acceptable substitute imo: YouTube - Gmoney (Wario) vs. Redhalberd (MK) 3

[Rey Magnus]

Wow.. that was more boring than Super Turbo...

[Gabranth]

lol this thread is giving me a headache. Smash bros aint that bad. I've beat plenty of good Meta Knight players that do the stalling. It's all a matter of waiting for them to make one mess up.

[Rey Magnus]

I don't play Brawl, but from what I played and from the looks of things, have no idea how you can mess up stalling with Meta Knight in Brawl.. Unless it was a gay stage, I can understand that.

[Izzah]

I've been playing Smash competitively since the old N64 days. The series hit its prime with SSBM, it lost a lot of its competitive community with the introduction of brawl. (And the removal of wave-dashing, L-cancels, etc.). I can safely say that I've had more fun with 20+ hours of Dissidia than I've had with 300+ hours of Brawl.
Nuff said.

[UncleSam]

wall of text

wow, gates comin' in with a wall of text jeez.
Just hack you wii, and play brawl mods.
I still play brawl(and main TL) but some of the mods are pretty good.

I can safely say that I've had more fun with 20+ hours of Dissidia than I've had with 300+ hours of Brawl.
Nuff said.
if you have nobody to play with it gets boring I can understand that.

[Rey Magnus]

He said he played competitively. You can't play competitively by yourself...

Also, if you have to hack a game to actually be satisfying to you, then it just proves it's crap.

I can tell you to hack Shaq Fu for it to be fun, but it won't change the fact that the actual game is shit.

[Masaru]

Trying to work my own way into semi-pro/pro Brawl. Heh.

It really isn't a bad game. When you find the right people to play with, that is.

Only hacks I have on mine are unrestricted camera and unrestricted replay time. And I changed the default settings to stock and such. That's it.

[UncleSam]

I mostly just use custom textures.

[Rey Magnus]

It really isn't a bad game. When you find the right people to play with, that is.

It's not bad as a casual game, but competitively, not nearly as fun.

[JedinStarke]

Man i love the game. I play online regularly and with Pit of all characters. I love arrow toggling people :P.

[Flan]

personally, its not that great as a competitive game. I stick to Halo and Melee if I'm looking for that (and maybe even Dissidia soon).

[eclipse]

This game is fun for anything I think, but the people who complain about it are always the people who aren't that good at it no offense (don't shoot me 0.0)

[Gianni]

yea e maybe we can be the number one tag team on brawl on this site

[Rey Magnus]

This game is fun for anything I think, but the people who complain about it are always the people who aren't that good at it no offense (don't shoot me 0.0)

No, I complain about it cause it's a gay game to go competitive. Mike is good at it, but he also hates it.

Hell, M2K hates it and he rarely loses.

[Kite]

I loved melee, Brawl isnt even close to melees awesomeness

[Gianni]

thats like beefin with dissiida saying its not competitive cause they arent many moves really you can do.

[eclipse]

Hell, M2K hates it and he rarely loses.[/QUOTE]

He hasn't played me :cool:

[Rey Magnus]

thats like beefin with dissiida saying its not competitive cause they arent many moves really you can do.

..What are you saying? It's gay to go competitive because A) It's not smart. B) Meta Knight. C) Gay random tripping is gay and there is no combos or complex stuff to do. D) Meta Knight. E) Meta Knight breaks the thing SSB is known to be good for, which is counterpicking.

Dissidia is atleast a smart game. I agree that Brawl can be fun, just not in a competitive level.

EDIT: Wow.. you really don't know who M2K is, do you? Do you even know anything about Brawl's scene?

[MoD]

wait.... so i'm not the only one here how hate this game ?? O.o
i enjoyed the computer games then this >_> but it was not that bad

[Mikeee]

Hell, M2K hates it and he rarely loses.

He hasn't played me :cool:

I really hate playing on wifi, but after you say that I almost feel like it's my civic obligation.

[eclipse]

Im the best at what i do:cool:

[Mikeee]

who do you play eclipse?

[eclipse]

I have lost all my old freinds, my wii got damaged and I had to replace it I just got my new one its been like four months so i kinda forgot, and im rusty

[Mikeee]

No Johns.

You don't even know who you main?

[eclipse]

oh I guess you can say, Falco, Wolf and Toon Link but i kind of main everybody.

[Gianni]

most ppl complain against metaknight...he can be beaten yo, yes his down smash is one of the fastest down smash if not the fastest in the game, both games are fun competitively.

if you want combos play virtua fighter or tekken, 15 hit combos are nothing to play with lol.

brawl and dissidia are smart games, both games you play mindgame with your opponents.

[Mikeee]

I'll play you sometime if you want.

EDIT: Metaknight is broken for his ability to stall. Not his downsmash. And Brawl doesn't have combos.

Mind games are more of a melee thing.

[Rey Magnus]

oh I guess you can say, Falco, Wolf and Toon Link but i kind of main everybody.

It's official. You're not as nearly as good as you think you are, sir. Not knowing Who M2K is and claiming to be good just proves it on it's own.

EDIT: @Gianni: He's beatable if you're 10 times more skilled than the Meta Knight. And that's what I do, I play actually good challenging games that are fun casually and competitively.

[Kite]

most ppl complain against metaknight...he can be beaten yo, yes his down smash is one of the fastest down smash if not the fastest in the game, both games are fun competitively.

if you want combos play virtua fighter or tekken, 15 hit combos are nothing to play with lol.

brawl and dissidia are smart games, both games you play mindgame with your opponents.

Dissidia is alot closer to melee than brawl. You actually can do combos, and Im pretty sure mindgames were even more important in melee, you need it to actually do the combos

[eclipse]

I do combos in brawl, not really that hard unless your somebody like Ike or Bowser

does dissidia have combos or is it that one button equals combos 0.0

[Rey Magnus]

I do combos in brawl

There are no combos in Brawl...

[Mikeee]

I do combos in brawl, not really that hard unless your somebody like Ike or Bowser

I'll play you if you want, really.

[Kite]

There are no combos in Brawl...

This is absolutely true

[Mikeee]

There are a few, very few, combos that usually involve chaingrabbing.

[Rey Magnus]

does dissidia have combos or is it that one button equals combos 0.0

Yes, Dissidia has actual combos that you can do from move to move. What do you think infinites are?

[Gianni]

wow not knowing this M2K guy doesnt mean E isnt good bro...calm down.

E just play the mikee guy in brawll. ill spectate if u want.

brawl has some combos, such as adult links, A,A,Up B

[Rey Magnus]

wow not knowing this M2K guy doesnt mean E isnt good bro...calm down.

I'm not yelling. And it doesn't mean he's not good, but he's obviously not as good as he's claiming to be. Not knowing a game's scene or actual community is an automatic "You're not as good as any of the people in that community" cause you can't get good in a game without being part of the community.

[Gates]

Guys, lay off eclipse. He clearly doesn't know anything about competitive Smash.

[Kite]

Not really a combo, if your going to count those, why not A, A, tap down, grab for most of the character, and many other variations, and a smash player that knows nothing about competitive smash, knows nothing about smash in general

[Rey Magnus]

Guys, lay off eclipse. He clearly doesn't know anything about competitive Smash.

Don't put Brawl in the same category as Melee, what are you thinking?!?! D:

[eclipse]

I guess im just so good they look like combos O.O. lol Ill play you tomorrow go easy on me lol

I hate chaingrabbing its so boring for the victim and the criminal

and I just like to talk trash and get people mad when I talk about this game I mean you can start a war over some mario games.

[Gianni]

to end the convo just play E lol.

give some complex dissidia combos then.

[Rey Magnus]

No, we just like putting people who don't know shit about what they're talking about in their place.

@Gianni: Go look for a good Golbez or search up the infinites.

[Kite]

to end the convo just play E lol.

give some complex dissidia combos then.

Read my freakin guide, along with Nero's and many others

[eclipse]

Guys, lay off eclipse. He clearly doesn't know anything about competitive Smash.

So smash is competitive O.O I KNEW IT

(final fantasy victory theme plays)

[Gianni]

lol just trust me he was joking around lol.

alright ill read it just everyone cool down ya know we supposed to be a friendly site to the public :D

[Rey Magnus]

So smash is competitive O.O I KNEW IT

(final fantasy victory theme plays)

Melee is. Can't count Brawl as one.

@Gianni: I love how you're thinking we're actually upset or some shit.

[Mikeee]

Let's just play or something.

No fucking spectators this is LAG-Fi. I'll just save the replays.

[Gates]

Don't put Brawl in the same category as Melee, what are you thinking?!?! D:No, I meant he doesn't know about ANY competitive Smash, Brawl or Melee. He likely doesn't know who Ken, Isai, Azen, or Mango are either.


I hate chaingrabbing its so boring for the victim and the criminalA Falco who doesn't chaingrab? That's a first.


and I just like to talk trash and get people mad when I talk about this game I mean you can start a war over some mario games.Well, you heard it guys...
http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/133/medium/yall_niggas.jpg



Also, this thread made me lol:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=247837
Obviously it was written for humor purposes.

[eclipse]

[QUOTE=Rey Magnus;9105]No, we just like putting people who don't know shit about what they're talking about in their place.


lol he sure showed me (he shot me, I told them not to shoot. x_x)

[Kite]

No, I meant he doesn't know about ANY competitive Smash, Brawl or Melee. He likely doesn't know who Ken, Isai, Azen, or Mango are either.


And that is why he must die *picks up a pitchfork*

[Rey Magnus]

lol he sure showed me (he shot me, I told them not to shoot. x_x)

You mad ??

[Mikeee]

Trash talking is pro, clearly.

[Gianni]

just because someone chooses someone who chaingrabs doesnt mean they do it.

E just play the people lets get this prob over with

[Mikeee]

just because someone chooses someone who chaingrabs doesnt mean they do it.

E just play the people lets get this prob over with

If he tried to chaingrab 2 of my 3 mains with flaco it wouldnt work lol.

[eclipse]

[QUOTE=Gates;9115]No, I meant he doesn't know about ANY competitive Smash, Brawl or Melee. He likely doesn't know who Ken, Isai, Azen, or Mango are either.

I never said I was competitive but I ran with a few the so called best and I do pretty good.

A Falco who doesn't chaingrab? That's a first.

I know how to but its not fun. Falco has good air moves and ground moves why limit him to cheap tricks

Well, you heard it guys...

Im still good and I can back up my talk

[Gates]

just because someone chooses someone who chaingrabs doesnt mean they do it.I know, I'm just saying I've never seen a successful Falco who doesn't chaingrab is all.

And for the record, eclipse and Gianni, people say that Brawl has no combos because there almost no attacks that cancel into eachother, hitstun has been severely reduced since Melee, infinite airdodges make it easier to avoid any moves your opponent throws at you, and offstage combos are almost non-existent since you can be a character width away from the stage and facing away from it and still grab the ledge. Because of these various factors, there are no true combos in Brawl aside from chaingrabbing.

[eclipse]

You mad ??


I dont get mad umm unless you mean mad crazy :)

[Mikeee]

Flaco uh... cant caingrab my characters anyways... I play Peach and Puff.

He chains MK but... yeah...

How bout we play?

[Gianni]

Flaco of course he isnt real! jk lol

who do u main mikeeee

[Gates]

I actually did not know that Peach and Jiggs couldn't be cg'd by Falco. Cool.

[eclipse]

If he tried to chaingrab 2 of my 3 mains with flaco it wouldnt work lol.

lol its easy to get out of his CGs, who do you main

[Mikeee]

Toooo floaty lol

I play Peach, Puff, and MK.

[Kite]

[QUOTE=Gates;9115]No, I meant he doesn't know about ANY competitive Smash, Brawl or Melee. He likely doesn't know who Ken, Isai, Azen, or Mango are either.

I never said I was competitive but I ran with a few the so called best and I do pretty good.

A Falco who doesn't chaingrab? That's a first.

I know how to but its not fun. Falco has good air moves and ground moves why limit him to cheap tricks

Well, you heard it guys...

Im still good and I can back up my talk


How did this prove anything

[eclipse]

NOT THEM! lmao like I hate fighting people who main them especially jiggy >_>

[Gianni]

they drug characters,they get highhhhh.

oh and alright gates, but all games competitive in there own way lets just leave it at that

[Mikeee]

Plaaayyy meee? My girl's away tonight, I'm bored.

[eclipse]

[quote=eclipse;9128]


How did this prove anything



what did I have to prove O.O

[Kite]

That your good and can back up your talk

[eclipse]

man im too lazy but alright I need more freinds anyway

[Suppi]

<--- SSBB Casual nub player XD I'm really not that great. I use marth, pikachu, Zelda and Kirby. I mainly use marth now since I haven't played in ages and I really stink at air combos =/ *kirby air juggles etc* All I do know is short hop marth and grab chains... not that great anymore :D

[Mikeee]

What's your FC?

btw where do you live? plleeeaaseee be EC

[eclipse]

That your good and can back up your talk


we about to find out I guess dont see how post can prove that tho

[Gianni]

suupi i didnt know you joined this site. how u been.

e did u unlock all the characters again...or u still missing some?

[eclipse]

im in florida hold up imma get my wii hooked up -_-

[Mikeee]

FC? Come on, I'm tired.

3179-5737-4488

[Gates]

lol its easy to get out of his CGs, who do you mainLMAO.

I'm friends with a decent Falco main who has been playing him for close to 3 months now. He never messes up his CGs anymore. Like, ever. It used to be I could uair him out of it after the first 2 throws with my MK, because he wasn't doing it right but now I can't even do that because he's got that shit down. If opponents are getting out of your CGs it's YOUR fault, not your character.


they drug characters,they get highhhhh.This quote really makes me want to find lain's ICs texture hack with pot leaves on the hammers but it would take too long.


oh and alright gates, but all games competitive in there own way lets just leave it at thatI agree and, unlike everyone else here, I'm not arguing that Brawl shouldn't be treated as a competitive game.

@ Suupi - Marth doesn't really have CGs, it's just Dthrow -> Fsmash at 0 and grab release stuff on Ness, Lucas, and Wario. On some characters he can get in a second dthrow, but that's about it.

[eclipse]

suupi i didnt know you joined this site. how u been.

e did u unlock all the characters again...or u still missing some?


everybody but jiggy

[Mikeee]

Gates, if you get chained start SPAMing quarter-circle back motions with your control stick and you'll avoid the spike. I saw OmegaBlackMage teach Atomsk that at GU.

[eclipse]

lol well maybe you dont have that brawl touch Gates

[Gianni]

if you ever find the texture hack send me it i wouldnt mind getting a few laughs, and let me know how the matches go and if you can upload the match vids that would be great, good luck to both players

[Mikeee]

Still need the FC

[Gates]

I'm a Dedede main, so I'm heavy enough that the spike rarely kills me anyway unless I'm at 90+% in which case he wouldn't be able to do it out of a dthrow anyway, though it does put me in a horrible position.

When I play MK against Falco (which I usually do now) I usually try and just space myself so that if I do get grabbed he'll only be able to spike me onto the stage so I can tech it or usmash me. I've gotten better at knowing what percents Falco can CG and when he can't (though I don't know the exact ones) so I generally know when I'm safe from getting spiked.

Or did you mean Marth's dthrow -> dair? Because, again, I'm a Dedede main so nothing really knocks me back.

Also, I wasn't complaining about Falco guys, I was just giving an example that if you do it right chaingrabs are inescapable. I used to have a ton of trouble with my friend's Falco but recently we've been going even because I know the matchup and how to deal with his sideB recovery and stuff.

[eclipse]

ok
4297-2012-1546

I got a bad controller too so watch out sometimes it does things O.O

[Mikeee]

Alright ill head online.

[Gates]

I got a bad controller too so watch out sometimes it does things O.OIs your real name John by any chance?
jw

[eclipse]

lets do 2 warm ups then a serious match


Is your real name John by any chance?
jw

lol NO dat was a joke right? O.O

[Gates]

Yes, it was a joke.

You got it right?

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Johns

Just checking.

[Mikeee]

k add me and host now?

[eclipse]

umm wheres your code

[Gianni]

wow lol they got meanings like that for brawl

[Mikeee]

ugh you cant read ill post it again

3179-5737-4488

[eclipse]

lol sorry im blind

[Gianni]

all i can say is wow but this thread made me chuckle a bit

[eclipse]

why you leave I didnt use my number 1

you are good but I have played better people, it was fun I didnt get to go all out but still, im surprised I almost beat MK wit Pit O.O and I would of one the second one if I didnt kill myself for you but GGs!

[Rey Magnus]

He got kicked off of his Wii. And wasn't the score 2-0, with him winning?

[Mikeee]

It was honestly reeeaalllyyy laggy so i'm not even going to judge.

[gregor]

whats up i am now the best player at this game on the website. not saying much tho, this game sorta sucks

[Suppi]

I suck at SSBB XD But if anyone wants to play me anyways leave me a message and I'll get around to typing my code out *no where near my wii atm*

[Geist]

Anyone here play this abomination of a video game?
Sold it, since I don't get why people even like this series.

It's like Mario Party, except with Nintendo Characters and two 3rd Party characters. Oh, and you need to push your opponent out of the stage. Not really a fighting game, actually, more like a platform/party game, in my opinion.

Also my main was Jigglypuff, just like in the old SSB64 and Melee days.

[gregor]

i can teach anyone this game, if they teach me dissidia lol

[Ckarasu]

I still play this. A good, fun, fighting game (Try to prove that it's not a fighting game). I main Game and Watch, and I am am bastard with him. If you want a ,match, just tell me.

[Kite]

I mained Game and Watch in Brawl, and I hate him, I seconded Metaknight, and I hated him, after realizing how much I hate my mains, I quit. Then I try playing melee again, you can imagine the results

[Mikeee]

I still play this. A good, fun, fighting game (Try to prove that it's not a fighting game). I main Game and Watch, and I am am bastard with him. If you want a ,match, just tell me.

Prove it is a fighting game.

GaW is slooowwwllyyy slipping into mid tier.

[Suppi]

i can teach anyone this game, if they teach me dissidia lol

Is there some kind of secret method to being god at this game?

[Kite]

Reflexes, mindgames, camping, thats about it

[Mikeee]

It's honestly not a very difficult game to get at least decent at. Kumo nailed it. Except Mindgames aren't even all that important, because you can just camp more and think less.

[Suppi]

Reflexes, mindgames, camping, thats about it

I figured... Guess I just need to learn how to use my character better *marth, kirby, zelda*

[Mikeee]

The fact that you play Marf brings up another important skill, Spacing. Spacing is huge.

[Kite]

I miss the old marth, and fox, those were fun times

[Mikeee]

I miss the old Shine lolz.

Oh, and if I had Peach's Melee DSmash and on occasions, her double jump... mangz, shit would be rape.

[Suppi]

The fact that you play Marf brings up another important skill, Spacing. Spacing is huge.

True... I can get it down to the point where I'm decent at the game with him... though I need to work on reflexes to dodge/block more. And Fox was my original main in SSBM.

[Mikeee]

I mained Fox in the first two games, and switched around a lot in Brawl before I found Peach.

And Spacing with Marf is awesome cause you get the tippers and shit. I have to space a lot when playing Puff, but for very different reasons.

The spotdodge has a stupid amount of invincibility frames, so camping and abusing it and running away is actually a good strategy.

[Kite]

I mained melee fox for years, but I still havent mastered him. I cant get the thunders combo down

[Mikeee]

Maaaann, I could never wavedash in an actual pressure situation in Melee. Nor could I consistently L-Cancel.

In other words, I'm fucking garbage at Melee. Deff a FFA pro though.

[Suppi]

No idea what you guys are saying XD Whats the thunder combo?

[Kite]

Something i can only do in 1 out of 5 attempts

[Ckarasu]

Prove it is a fighting game.

GaW is slooowwwllyyy slipping into mid tier.

He's still at #8, last I checked. That's not bad. Plus, he has a ton of good matchups.

[Mikeee]

Pffftt idk.

Melee is ridiculously fun though. My past 3 Brawl tournies I've spent more time playing Melee FFAs than Brawl.

EDIT: He used to be 4th. He's slipping fast. He's a stale character with the same tricks he had when the game came out. Oh, they added Bucket Canceling a year ago. That's the only Metagame development he's had.

[Ckarasu]

Pffftt idk.

Melee is ridiculously fun though. My past 3 Brawl tournies I've spent more time playing Melee FFAs than Brawl.

EDIT: He used to be 4th. He's slipping fast. He's a stale character with the same tricks he had when the game came out. Oh, they added Bucket Canceling a year ago. That's the only Metagame development he's had.

He hasn't really dropped that much. He's fast, powerful, and can be really hard to kill. He might drop to bottom of A or top of B, but that seems about it. He has very few counters. It's been a year, and he's only dropped 4 places. That's actually a small decline.

[Mikeee]

He's going to drop because he has no tourney rep anymore. He's currently sitting at 14th in tourney placings because all the top GaW players dropped him, because he is NOT improving where as mostly all of the other characters are developing.

And one of his best attributes is his lingering hitboxes which you didn't even mention >_>

[Suppi]

Hmm I was a nub at SSBM =p Can't even use wavedash in a normal battle.

[Flan]

Hope that most of you people arguing that it isn't a fighting game are talking about Brawl and just Brawl. Melee and 64 are both great games and qualify 100 times more than some of those shitty fighters than EVO uses at their tournaments (Soul Calibur does not even compare to Melee).

I can teach people Melee if they teach me the secret of the Void or the secret to Jecht's manliness.

[Suppi]

Hope that most of you people arguing that it isn't a fighting game are talking about Brawl and just Brawl. Melee and 64 are both great games and qualify 100 times more than some of those shitty fighters than EVO uses at their tournaments (Soul Calibur does not even compare to Melee).

I can teach people Melee if they teach me the secret of the Void or the secret to Jecht's manliness.

Why wouldn't Brawl count as a fighter? You fight in it... you make them fly off map... isn't that a basis for fighters *the the fighting part*

[Mikeee]

I can fight in GTA, doesn't make it a fighter.

Melee is good though.

Soul Calibur is garbage.

[Flan]

I'm not saying that Brawl isn't a fighter, I was just making a point that there are people saying that because Brawl isn't as good of a fighter than Melee and Smash 64 are also fail.

But seriously, Dissidia > Smash > Everything else < Void.

[Mikeee]

Nah dude. SF and Tekken are better than Dissidia and Smash, mangz.

[Suppi]

I'm not saying that Brawl isn't a fighter, I was just making a point that there are people saying that because Brawl isn't as good of a fighter than Melee and Smash 64 are also fail.

But seriously, Dissidia > Smash > Everything else < Void.

so is the void > Smash or on the same level... or is it also > dissidia :3

[Kite]

tekken is better than smash, I agree, but Im not sure about SF, and Dissidia will be better than all of them, one day

[Mikeee]

I honestly don't think Dissidia is a "Good" fighting game. It's fun, but it's not really... good...

[Kite]

Well see, one day, after theres a good competitive scene

[Suppi]

If only there was a Touhou tournament =p *7.5 - IAMP, 9 Phantasmagoria of Flower View, 10.5 Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, 12.3 Unthinkable Natural Law* all the touhou games listed are 1v1 pvp based =p
but I think Dissidia > SSB for tourney wise.

[Mikeee]

SSB actually has a legit community thoouugghh D:

[Suppi]

SSB actually has a legit community thoouugghh D:

I guess just give it time... it might just end up like all other fighters... everyone will move on eventually.

[Mikeee]

People still play Melee though... they have 200+ people at tournies

[Suppi]

People still play Melee though... they have 200+ people at tournies

o.o
still?
Didn't think they could get 200+ for a SSBM tourney this time and day.

[Mikeee]

Yeah, Genesis had like 200 people.

[Suppi]

Yeah, Genesis had like 200 people.

wow... so how many people are still godly pro at it :3

[Mikeee]

A lot... The top pros now are better than ever. Mango is a beast.

[Kite]

Im Hating Tekken right now, Bob is scary

[Mikeee]

screw Bob. Needs more Anna.

Rufus is stranger than Bob though.

BUT THIS IS A SMASH TOPIC D:

[Suppi]

lol. Well I'll never be anywhere as good to be pro in SSBM since I never practice.

[Ckarasu]

And one of his best attributes is his lingering hitboxes which you didn't even mention >_>

I had to go to work. I could list a bunch of things about G&W that make him good. Who cares if no one represents him? It doesn't make him less good.

[Flan]

The problem I find with players of games like SF and SC and Tekken games are that once the next one comes out, they quickly forget about the prior games. Honestly, I find SF2 so great compared to SF4. But no one goes back to that game. Same with SC.

With Smash, heck there are even a few people who just only play Smash 64 but those are few. Melee is still striving and has a tourney scene as big as Brawl (close) with more people will to travel out of state for tournaments. I've just been to nearby ones and did well at those.

Dissidia is yet to be determined in the Competitive fighter scene since a competitive standard has not yet been set and the metagame hasn't gone very far yet. Its nice to have a competitive handheld fighter game (instead of all console).

Smash = Dissidia in my mind. Void is greater than all except maybe.........Cloud's Sword??

[Gates]

Maaaann, I could never wavedash in an actual pressure situation in Melee. Nor could I consistently L-Cancel.

In other words, I'm fucking garbage at Melee. Deff a FFA pro though.
Hmm I was a nub at SSBM =p Can't even use wavedash in a normal battle.Oh good, it's not just me.

I played Peach in Melee though, so that's my excuse for not having techskill.


I can teach people Melee if they teach me the secret of the Void or the secret to Jecht's manliness.The Void and Jecht's manliness really aren't something that can be taught. You just either know it or you don't.


But seriously, Dissidia > Smash > Everything else < Void.
so is the void > Smash or on the same level... or is it also > dissidia :3ITT: Flan can't do inequalities.


GaW is slooowwwllyyy slipping into mid tier.
EDIT: He used to be 4th. He's slipping fast. He's a stale character with the same tricks he had when the game came out. Oh, they added Bucket Canceling a year ago. That's the only Metagame development he's had.
He hasn't really dropped that much. He's fast, powerful, and can be really hard to kill. He might drop to bottom of A or top of B, but that seems about it. He has very few counters. It's been a year, and he's only dropped 4 places. That's actually a small decline.
I had to go to work. I could list a bunch of things about G&W that make him good. Who cares if no one represents him? It doesn't make him less good.I used to sub G&W so I can say a few things about this:

1. Bucket Braking was more like 6 or 7 months ago, not a year, but regardless it's not as game breaking as people think it is. Depending on the character it can add between 10 and 20% onto your life total before you die. That's not terribly significant. All it really means is that he's effectively gone from being the 3rd lightest in the game to being more like Marth weight.
2. G&W has the most predictable metagame of any character.
If he's facing away from you, he's going to bair you.
If he's facing towards you, he's going to nair you.
If he's under you he's going to uair or nair you.
If he's way under you, he's going to upB then uair or nair you.
If he's behind on percent, he might try and use Judgment (especially UTD Zac).
That's all he really can do aside from random dtilt pokes if he's close or jab combo if he's right next to you. His grab range is so bad that they're almost never used and 2 of his throws are useless anyway. His smashes are easy to see coming too if you know when the G&W is going to use them, and it's really not hard to figure out. The only thing I haven't seen too many G&Ws do is plank which doesn't make a lot of sense to me since he's so good at planking.
3. Let's talk about his matchups.
I'm skipping MK. If you don't understand why, look up who the most recent G&W M2K lost to was. (Hint: Nobody)
Snake has always been a terrible matchup for G&W. He simply outcamps him, can kill him too early, outranges him, can kill him too early, has a million ways to get off his grenade traps against him, and can kill him too early. Snake wins this match on G&W's best stage, Rainbow Cruise. If that's not an indication of how bad this matchup is, I don't know what is.
Wario's airspeed is good enough that he can bait attacks from G&W and then punish during G&W's ridiculous landing lag with a bite or an aerial. He can also camp ridiculously well and avoids damage like no tomorrow. On top of that, if he does get hit by a G&W bair Wario can smash DI down, tech in place, and fart for a kill.
Falco outcamps G&W very well and G&W has to have ridiculously good spacing in this matchup or he'll get grabbed and take 30% from cg -> usmash or dair. After that, Falco just needs to laser camp G&W until he can usmash for the win. G&W beats Falco offstage but so does everyone so that's not much of an accomplishment.
G&W's biggest advantage against Diddy aside from his superior offstage game is the fact that all his counterpicks are not good for Diddy. Other than that, Diddy can use bananas and grabs to his advantage very well while G&W is suppering from landing lag and can do pretty well in the matchup if he plays smart. The only other problem Diddy has in this matchup is that he can't kill for shit (seriously, I once unintentionally timed out someone with Diddy).
King Dedede WAS a good matchup for G&W until Dededes figured out how to play it. The biggest threats were bair, nair, and upB after dthrow, and those have all been dealt with. If you're on the ground when G&W tried to bair you, you can ftilt him out of it, let it hit your shield to shieldgrab him between hits, or if he spaces far enough away just shield the whole thing since he'll probably only hit your shield with 3 hits. If you're in the air when he bairs you, you can hit him with your bair as well and you'll come out on top in the trade (Dedede takes 3% while G&W takes 14%) (generally though you shouldn't stay in the air in this matchup). If he nairs you on the ground you have an even better chance of sheildgrabbing him since it has less range than bair. If you're above him in the air and he doesn't upB and tries to nair normally you can hit him with a dair since its range is so huge. As far as their upBs after a dthrow go, you can use the "wind" or whatever it is from the trampoline to follow G&W in the air and hit him with a uair or fair. If G&W doesn't upB after a dthrow he can be techchased really easily for more throws or you can hit him with a dsmash or if you're lucky even fsmash or dash attack. Dedede also generally has an advantage on neutral stages that aren't Battlefield. G&W can bucket all of Waddle Doo's eye beams but that just means that Dedede shouldn't throw Waddle Dees onstage in this match. lain, the best MW Dedede, has destroyed every G&W he has ever come across except Needle of Juntah (best MW G&W) who he's been playing in and out of tourney for well over a year now, and other good Dededes like Atomsk, CO18, and Seibrik rarely lose to G&W also. Some G&Ws say that Chef camping stops all of Dededes approaches. LOL. Chef is terrible and random and it can't stop shit. Now planking on the other hand, that's something Dedede can't deal with.

For more information about the Dedede vs. Game & Watch match, pleas consult this video with awesome synced music.
YouTube - Forsaken(DDD) vs Hylian(G&amp;W) 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cduoq1oGB-w)

(I'm a Dedede main btw, can you tell? lol)
Marth is another terrible matchup for G&W. Marth outranges G&W on pretty much every attack and can kill him extremely early with tippers. There's really not much more that needs to be said than that.
Most people even say that G&W goes even with DK, mostly because DK outranges him and can kill early with dair and Africa Punch.

So basically all his top tier matchups are bad, his high and mid tier matchups are iffy except for ROB and Pikachu where he has a solid advantage, and his only other solidly good matchups are against the low tiers. That doesn't make for that good of a character.





BUT

If you have fun playing him, that's all that matters in the end.

And besides, he'll always be top tier in doubles, so that's something.

[Suppi]

Oh good, it's not just me.

I played Peach in Melee though, so that's my excuse for not having techskill.

The Void and Jecht's manliness really aren't something that can be taught. You just either know it or you don't.

ITT: Flan can't do inequalities.

I used to sub G&W so I can say a few things about this:

1. Bucket Braking was more like 6 or 7 months ago, not a year, but regardless it's not as game breaking as people think it is. Depending on the character it can add between 10 and 20% onto your life total before you die. That's not terribly significant. All it really means is that he's effectively gone from being the 3rd lightest in the game to being more like Marth weight.
2. G&W has the most predictable metagame of any character.
If he's facing away from you, he's going to bair you.
If he's facing towards you, he's going to nair you.
If he's under you he's going to uair or nair you.
If he's way under you, he's going to upB then uair or nair you.
If he's behind on percent, he might try and use Judgment (especially UTD Zac).
That's all he really can do aside from random dtilt pokes if he's close or jab combo if he's right next to you. His grab range is so bad that they're almost never used and 2 of his throws are useless anyway. His smashes are easy to see coming too if you know when the G&W is going to use them, and it's really not hard to figure out. The only thing I haven't seen too many G&Ws do is plank which doesn't make a lot of sense to me since he's so good at planking.
3. Let's talk about his matchups.
I'm skipping MK. If you don't understand why, look up who the most recent G&W M2K lost to was. (Hint: Nobody)
Snake has always been a terrible matchup for G&W. He simply outcamps him, can kill him too early, outranges him, can kill him too early, has a million ways to get off his grenade traps against him, and can kill him too early. Snake wins this match on G&W's best stage, Rainbow Cruise. If that's not an indication of how bad this matchup is, I don't know what is.
Wario's airspeed is good enough that he can bait attacks from G&W and then punish during G&W's ridiculous landing lag with a bite or an aerial. He can also camp ridiculously well and avoids damage like no tomorrow. On top of that, if he does get hit by a G&W bair Wario can smash DI down, tech in place, and fart for a kill.
Falco outcamps G&W very well and G&W has to have ridiculously good spacing in this matchup or he'll get grabbed and take 30% from cg -> usmash or dair. After that, Falco just needs to laser camp G&W until he can usmash for the win. G&W beats Falco offstage but so does everyone so that's not much of an accomplishment.
G&W's biggest advantage against Diddy aside from his superior offstage game is the fact that all his counterpicks are not good for Diddy. Other than that, Diddy can use bananas and grabs to his advantage very well while G&W is suppering from landing lag and can do pretty well in the matchup if he plays smart. The only other problem Diddy has in this matchup is that he can't kill for shit (seriously, I once unintentionally timed out someone with Diddy).
King Dedede WAS a good matchup for G&W until Dededes figured out how to play it. The biggest threats were bair, nair, and upB after dthrow, and those have all been dealt with. If you're on the ground when G&W tried to bair you, you can ftilt him out of it, let it hit your shield to shieldgrab him between hits, or if he spaces far enough away just shield the whole thing since he'll probably only hit your shield with 3 hits. If you're in the air when he bairs you, you can hit him with your bair as well and you'll come out on top in the trade (Dedede takes 3% while G&W takes 14%) (generally though you shouldn't stay in the air in this matchup). If he nairs you on the ground you have an even better chance of sheildgrabbing him since it has less range than bair. If you're above him in the air and he doesn't upB and tries to nair normally you can hit him with a dair since its range is so huge. As far as their upBs after a dthrow go, you can use the "wind" or whatever it is from the trampoline to follow G&W in the air and hit him with a uair or fair. If G&W doesn't upB after a dthrow he can be techchased really easily for more throws or you can hit him with a dsmash or if you're lucky even fsmash or dash attack. Dedede also generally has an advantage on neutral stages that aren't Battlefield. G&W can bucket all of Waddle Doo's eye beams but that just means that Dedede shouldn't throw Waddle Dees onstage in this match. lain, the best MW Dedede, has destroyed every G&W he has ever come across except Needle of Juntah (best MW G&W) who he's been playing in and out of tourney for well over a year now, and other good Dededes like Atomsk, CO18, and Seibrik rarely lose to G&W also. Some G&Ws say that Chef camping stops all of Dededes approaches. LOL. Chef is terrible and random and it can't stop shit. Now planking on the other hand, that's something Dedede can't deal with.

(I'm a Dedede main btw, can you tell? lol)
Marth is another terrible matchup for G&W. Marth outranges G&W on pretty much every attack and can kill him extremely early with tippers. There's really not much more that needs to be said than that.
Most people even say that G&W goes even with DK, mostly because DK outranges him and can kill early with dair and Africa Punch.

So basically all his top tier matchups are bad, his high and mid tier matchups are iffy except for ROB and Pikachu where he has a solid advantage, and his only other solidly good matchups are against the low tiers. That doesn't make for that good of a character.





BUT

If you have fun playing him, that's all that matters in the end.

And besides, he'll always be top tier in doubles, so that's something.

ITT: Long comments and longer comments.
TL;DR
But really... all I use is short hop forward A. and then juggle them off the map and hop on there head.

[Gates]

ITT: Long comments and longer comments.
TL;DR
But really... all I use is short hop forward A. and then juggle them off the map and hop on there head.Yeah, that's pretty much all anyone does with Marth anymore.

[Suppi]

Yeah, that's pretty much all anyone does with Marth anymore.

Pretty much why I have to say I'm not a good player...
Though doing the same fighting style with Ike but just 1 hit per hop step and a lot more distance gauging is required... I hate hitting with his smashes... everyone blocks or dodges.

[Flan]

lol Gates your a Peach main? Copycat! I'm a Peach main with tech skill though.

[Gates]

I main Peach IN MELEE where she's good and has a decent VA.

I main Dedede in Brawl where Peach is meh and has a VA that sounds like a callous bitch.

[Kite]

I main Fox, Marth, Sheik, and Pichu(hell yeahz) in melee, and metaknight in brawl

I suck at using peach in both of them

[Gates]

lol top3 and very bottom. Nice.

Have you thought about picking up Ganon in Brawl? He's got a good glide toss. :)

[Kite]

Ganons too slow for my taste

[Ckarasu]

Long comment is long.

Falco can't laser camp G&W. G&W can either bucket it, or just duck. Falco's lasers are also slow, so there WILL be openings. It's a disadvantage for Falco, and even the Falco mains attest to this. Also, you obviously have not faced a competent G&W, it seems. All of his smashes are great, and you can easily be unpredictable with him.

Wario's matchup is supposedly even right now. And Dedede still seems to be at a disadvantage, or just even. And yes, from what I'm seeing, High to Mid tiers still suck against him.

[Gates]

If Falco shdls correctly he'll be able to hit a crouching Kirby, let alone G&W. What would bucketing the lasers accomplish? Bucket full of lasers does crap damage and there's lag on the bucket enough that Falco can punish you with other stuff.

I have played good G&Ws and it doesn't take too much time to learn when they're going to use a smash unless they actively try to be unpredictable with them, at which point it would just be random.

Wario and Dedede are both even, yes. There really aren't any high tiers he's that good against aside from ROB and Pika and maybe Lucario (idk about ICs, I've only been able to beat them online). There are a bunch of random mid-tiers he does well against but there are also several he goes even with or worse.

[Kite]

Good Ice climbers can beat anyone, if they can land their grabs

[Ckarasu]

If Falco shdls correctly he'll be able to hit a crouching Kirby, let alone G&W. What would bucketing the lasers accomplish? Bucket full of lasers does crap damage and there's lag on the bucket enough that Falco can punish you with other stuff.

I have played good G&Ws and it doesn't take too much time to learn when they're going to use a smash unless they actively try to be unpredictable with them, at which point it would just be random.

Wario and Dedede are both even, yes. There really aren't any high tiers he's that good against aside from ROB and Pika and maybe Lucario (idk about ICs, I've only been able to beat them online). There are a bunch of random mid-tiers he does well against but there are also several he goes even with or worse.

Matchups (http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Character_matchups)

Yeah, he does really well, matchups wise. These were all discussed by both sides (I checked the boards, and confirmed most of them). So, yeah, he is great. Deal with it.

Oh, and the ducking is to deal with the laser camp. Bucket is for the the damage, no matter how small (20-30%) it is.

[Gates]

I've seen the matchup chart in the original thread it was created in. G&W does really well matchup wise until you get to characters above ROB. Then it gets iffy. Like I said already, it doesn't take a ton of skill to deal with bairs which is why almost all of the high and top tiers know how to deal with him so well.

I know ducking is to deal with laser camp, that's why I brought up the fact that if Falco SHDLs correctly he'll hit any crouching character (save maybe Snake). Did you actually read my post?

And stop putting words in my mouth. I'm not saying he's the shittiest character in the game or low tier or whatever, I'm just saying he's predictable and has trouble with the top tiers.

[Ckarasu]

I've seen the matchup chart in the original thread it was created in. G&W does really well matchup wise until you get to characters above ROB. Then it gets iffy. Like I said already, it doesn't take a ton of skill to deal with bairs which is why almost all of the high and top tiers know how to deal with him so well.

I know ducking is to deal with laser camp, that's why I brought up the fact that if Falco SHDLs correctly he'll hit any crouching character (save maybe Snake). Did you actually read my post?

And stop putting words in my mouth. I'm not saying he's the shittiest character in the game or low tier or whatever, I'm just saying he's predictable and has trouble with the top tiers.

Didn't say you said he was a bad characters. And don't bring up the whole "you implied it" thing. I rarely do that. He is not predictable, as I many attacks are viable. It's the mindset of most people that play him is what probably is. You can do a lot of things, but sometimes people think it is best to rely on certain strategies too much.

[BerserkChip]

LOL I main with snake. I'm retarded with him though. I don't even use mines and napalm as often as I should. Usually I just go physical. Lots of people say he's cheap for his powerful projectiles, but he's also very powerful close range, and my favorite attack is his charged forward A. He pulls a rocket launcher out and blows up the ground in front of him. Hard to hit with, but VERY rewarding, and flipping awesome.

I named it "METAL GEARRRRRR" Because that's what I shout when I hit with it.

Also, his back air A I named "BOOTS!!!" Because he smacks you with his boots and you go flying. I love that.

Snake is so much fun to play. My other main is Kirby, but.... well.... I got banned for using Kirby, so I use snake now.

[Kite]

.....Whatd you do to get banned

[Ckarasu]

LOL I main with snake. I'm retarded with him though. I don't even use mines and napalm as often as I should. Usually I just go physical. Lots of people say he's cheap for his powerful projectiles, but he's also very powerful close range, and my favorite attack is his charged forward A. He pulls a rocket launcher out and blows up the ground in front of him. Hard to hit with, but VERY rewarding, and flipping awesome.

I named it "METAL GEARRRRRR" Because that's what I shout when I hit with it.

Also, his back air A I named "BOOTS!!!" Because he smacks you with his boots and you go flying. I love that.

Snake is so much fun to play. My other main is Kirby, but.... well.... I got banned for using Kirby, so I use snake now.

Why? I don't think there's anything broken about him (Kirby).
Snake is surprisingly fun to play as. He's retardedly powerful, though. His foward tilt is very strong. And he has some really good mindgames.

I can't really say too much about what's fair. I second a IDCing Metaknight (completely for fun, and to annoy others). I also like to play as Pikachu.

[BerserkChip]

.....Whatd you do to get banned

it's better to show you.

YouTube - 1-800-KIRBYCIDE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phVFKAxETlg&feature=related)

That, except I found a way to survive Kirbicide, so I could win really easy. Even pro players have a hard time surviving it all the time, esPECIALLY in brawl.

[Kite]

I remeber when I use to do that, everytime I was loosing

[Suppi]

it's better to show you.

YouTube - 1-800-KIRBYCIDE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phVFKAxETlg&feature=related)

That, except I found a way to survive Kirbicide, so I could win really easy. Even pro players have a hard time surviving it all the time, esPECIALLY in brawl.

Kirbyciding is illegal???

[Kite]

It isif you dont kill yourself too

[Ckarasu]

it's better to show you.

YouTube - 1-800-KIRBYCIDE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phVFKAxETlg&feature=related)

That, except I found a way to survive Kirbicide, so I could win really easy. Even pro players have a hard time surviving it all the time, ESPECIALLY in brawl.

I kinda figured you did something to that effect. Again, I can't judge you as I like to piss people off with my IDCing Metaknight.

[Kite]

My IC piss everyone off. Chaingrrab FTW

[Suppi]

My IC piss everyone off. Chaingrrab FTW

That's stupid lol... there goes my only good strategy with kirby =/

[Ckarasu]

My IC piss everyone off. Chaingrrab FTW

IDC > IC Chaingrab. After all, you can't grab what isn't there. If it wasn't banned, Metaknight would have 8:2 advantages against everyone, at least.

[Kite]

You can shield grab him if he attacks you during IDC, if he attacks in front of you, he loses his invincibility frames while attacking

[Ckarasu]

You can shield grab him if he attacks you during IDC, if they attack in front of you, he loses his invincibility frames while attacking

Yeah, or they could just kill you once, stall, and win the match because of its cheesiness. Seriously, the chaingrab is good, but IDC is close to perfection (It only has two, very minor flaws) when it comes to approach.

[Kite]

But he must attack to kill you once, theres the opening, he needs to charge a smash to kill you on the ground and you can just dodge all the time in the air, Metaknights usually get really stupid while in IDC

[Suppi]

yeah, or they could just kill you once, stall, and win the match because of its cheesiness. Seriously, the chaingrab is good, but idc is close to perfection (it only has two, very minor flaws) when it comes to approach.

idc/dc = ????

[Kite]

its the move where mk dissapears, but IDC is when he doesnt comeback

[Suppi]

its the move where mk dissapears, but IDC is when he doesnt comeback

how do you make it so he doesn't teleport back?

[Kite]

You turn off tap jump, and when you teleport move the control stick up and down, speed is key

[Ckarasu]

You turn off tap jump, and when you teleport move the control stick up and down, speed is key

No. It's:
Use Dimensional Cape. Hold down on the analogue stick (tilt it slightly to move) and jam up on the C-Stick really fast. It's an evil move that can piss people off fast. That's why I use it.

[Kite]

Yours is the easy way, thats no fun

[Ckarasu]

Yours is the easy way, thats no fun

But it's convenient. That's why I use this way.

[Suppi]

But it's convenient. That's why I use this way.

So what exactly does it look like? he teleports and just spawns somewhere else on the map?

[BerserkChip]

I never was able to get good with Metaknight. Everyone talks about how good he is, but the steering of his air recoveries and what not always felt a little too loose for my preferences. I much rather play as Snake, who's only real flaw is his insane falling speed, which is only bad if you aren't paying attention for a split second, but that can happen in a room full of screaming people.

[Kite]

No he turns invisible

[Suppi]

I never was able to get good with Metaknight. Everyone talks about how good he is, but the steering of his air recoveries and what not always felt a little too loose for my preferences. I much rather play as Snake, who's only real flaw is his insane falling speed, which is only bad if you aren't paying attention for a split second, but that can happen in a room full of screaming people.

I like snake... I rather use Cptn Falcon though *I suck with both of them so doesn't matter :3*. I'm only good with marth and kirby since there both floaty *well marth falls slow...* and they both have some good air game powers.

[Ckarasu]

So what exactly does it look like? he teleports and just spawns somewhere else on the map?

No. He's just invisible (and invulnerable) for as long as you can keep it up. Once you want to attack, it'll finish its animation like normal.

@BerserkChip: I can play pretty competently with Metaknight. I'm pretty aggressive, and can put people in plenty of combos. D Smash is a good kill move. I hardly use the Whorenado, too.

[Suppi]

No. He's just invisible (and invulnerable) for as long as you can keep it up. Once you want to attack, it'ss finish its animation like normal.

@BerserkChip: I can play pretty competently with Metaknight. I'm pretty aggressive, and can put people in plenty of combos. D Smash is a good kill move. I hardly use the Whorenado, too.

Fucking glitchers =p *me using snake's slide mortar :3*

[Gates]

it's better to show you.

YouTube - 1-800-KIRBYCIDE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phVFKAxETlg&feature=related)

That, except I found a way to survive Kirbicide, so I could win really easy. Even pro players have a hard time surviving it all the time, esPECIALLY in brawl.They banned you for THAT?

That's absolutely retarded.


IDC > IC Chaingrab. After all, you can't grab what isn't there. If it wasn't banned, Metaknight would have 8:2 advantages against everyone, at least.But it is banned so there's no point talking about it.


Yours is the easy way, thats no funinb4 your mom is the easy way.

Also, I went through and checked and I never once said that Game & Watch was a bad character. I guess technically I said he was "not that good" but I meant compared to the characters surrounding him on the tier list. When you compare him to the entire cast as opposed to just the high tiers (the part that actually matters) he is still a good character. When you use him in Doubles he's the best character.

AGGRESSIVE MKS? Oh man, I haven't seen those in a while.

[Ckarasu]

They banned you for THAT?

That's absolutely retarded.

But it is banned so there's no point talking about it.

inb4 your mom is the easy way.

Also, I went through and checked and I never once said that Game & Watch was a bad character. I guess technically I said he was "not that good" but I meant compared to the characters surrounding him on the tier list. When you compare him to the entire cast as opposed to just the high tiers (the part that actually matters) he is still a good character. When you use him in Doubles he's the best character.

AGGRESSIVE MKS? Oh man, I haven't seen those in a while.

I NEVER SAID YOU SAID HE WAS BAD.

I know my MK is not special. Just competent. G&W still belongs on the bottom of A tier, or the top of B tier. He's still a beast, and can still do pretty well against the higher up characters.

[Gates]

I NEVER SAID YOU SAID HE WAS BAD.Oh.

Well what are we arguing for then? lol.

If it's any consolation, G&W is probably the best black character in any fighting game since Balrog.


G&W still belongs on the bottom of A tier, or the top of B tier. He's still a beast, and can still do pretty well against the higher up characters.Bottom of A/Top of B sounds fine to me too. I'd probably put him above ROB but below ICs, Olimar, and Pika.


I know my MK is not special. Just competent.No, I wasn't kidding. Too many peoople are playing defensive MKs now. I haven't seen an aggressive one be successful in a long time. Even historically aggressive MKs like M2K and Dojo rea playing campy now. It's ridiculous.

[Ckarasu]

Oh.

Well what are we arguing for then? lol.

If it's any consolation, G&W is probably the best black character in any fighting game since Balrog.

Bottom of A/Top of B sounds fine to me too. I'd probably put him above ROB but below ICs, Olimar, and Pika.

No, I wasn't kidding. Too many peoople are playing defensive MKs now. I haven't seen an aggressive one be successful in a long time. Even historically aggressive MKs like M2K and Dojo rea playing campy now. It's ridiculous.

No, he has too many good matchups to be below Pikachu (poor Pika is only good against DDD). Same with Olimar and Ice Climbers. He beats all of them except IC, which he is dead even. But let's move on.

I'm surprised an aggressive Metaknight is uncommon. He has the tools to really kill. I like to get in my opponent's face and really do damage. Gotta retreat sooner or later, but I certainly do not like to camp.

[Suppi]

Meh... I really do suck at Brawl still :3 Was playing my cousin over internet... laggy as hell and I still can't recover well enough =/

[Gates]

No, he has too many good matchups to be below Pikachu (poor Pika is only good against DDD). Same with Olimar and Ice Climbers. He beats all of them except IC, which he is dead even. But let's move on.Pikachu goes even with Snake and Falco and about even with Diddy.

Aside from MK, Olimar goes even with all the top tiers except for Snake and Dedede who he straight-up rapes.

ICs beat Falco solidly, rape Dedede, go even with other top tiers, and are MK's second hardest matchup behind Snake.

All of that is more than can be said about Game & Watch. But yes, let's move on.


I'm surprised an aggressive Metaknight is uncommon. He has the tools to really kill. I like to get in my opponent's face and really do damage. Gotta retreat sooner or later, but I certainly do not like to camp.Everyone has gotten used to playing aggressive MKs so more and more MKs are having to camp to be successful.

Brawl in general just punishes the shit out of anyone who's aggressive and doesn't play perfectly with their approaches.


I still can't recover well enoughYOU MUST RECOVER!

AT 400 PERCENT!

YouTube - Powerthirst (SSBM edition) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH4sUrQAabY)

Oh man, I just found out this had a sequel:

YouTube - Powerthirst 2 (Melee Edition) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx5JZOTCisY)

Assloads of downsmashing! ASS-SMASHING!

[icyie04]

I just play Ike.

End of my post.

[Mikeee]

There is no way in hell GayMenWatch is better than those stupid Ice Climbers. Ice Climbers terrorize mostly any match up, and they place MUCH higher in tournies now than GaW. Lain has been consistently placing top 4 with them, Meep! has raped most of EC with them (Azen is just toooo good), and Hylian, who used to be one of the top GaW players, now mains ICs. ICs are much better than GaW.

EDIT: We like Ike, but Roy's our Boy.

[Ckarasu]

There is no way in hell GayMenWatch is better than those stupid Ice Climbers. Ice Climbers terrorize mostly any match up, and they place MUCH higher in tournies now than GaW. Lain has been consistently placing top 4 with them, Meep! has raped most of EC with them (Azen is just toooo good), and Hylian, who used to be one of the top GaW players, now mains ICs. ICs are much better than GaW.

EDIT: We like Ike, but Roy's our Boy.

In your opinion. I know they have the chaingrab, but they are just good in everything else. IC's matchup against G&W is bad one for them, by the way. I think G&W is the better character, but that's just my opinion. Who cares if they place higher in tourneys? Who cares if more people use them? It doesn't mean they're better. It's like saying Ragna's a high tier character because every one uses him. Skill is more important than tier placings. So, even if they are lower on the list, it doesn't mean they can't place high in tourneys.

[Mikeee]

the points you bring up really have nothing to do with which character is better. A characters matchup wit hone character has nothing to do with it. Hey, guess what? Wario and Diddy Kong have a tough time with the Peach matchup. That does not make Peach better. Also, the GaW matchup thread is outdated, and the IC thread doesn't have the matchup, so I'm going to guess none of us REALLY know how bad the matchup is.

What makes a character better is their all-around matchups, how they play against top tiers, their theoretical advantages and disadvantages, and HOW WELL THESE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES ARE PROVEN IN TOURNAMENT RESULTS. That's the way things like this are determined.

Ice Climbers are nearly a perfect fit for the way Brawl is played. They have their stupid chaingrab, and on top of that they're taylor made to camp.

[Ckarasu]

the points you bring up really have nothing to do with which character is better. A characters matchup wit hone character has nothing to do with it. Hey, guess what? Wario and Diddy Kong have a tough time with the Peach matchup. That does not make Peach better. Also, the GaW matchup thread is outdated, and the IC thread doesn't have the matchup, so I'm going to guess none of us REALLY know how bad the matchup is.

What makes a character better is their all-around matchups, how they play against top tiers, their theoretical advantages and disadvantages, and HOW WELL THESE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES ARE PROVEN IN TOURNAMENT RESULTS. That's the way things like this are determined.

Ice Climbers are nearly a perfect fit for the way Brawl is played. They have their stupid chaingrab, and on top of that they're taylor made to camp.

I didn't say it had to do with it. I just go off on random tangents. They were only partially related.

[Mikeee]

In other news, Mew2King is a pimp:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j267/NuclearSheep/DSC08130.jpg

Also, Gates, had no idea you lived in Michigan. Have a few friends there. A couple in the Smash Community.

[Ckarasu]

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j267/NuclearSheep/DSC08130.jpg


He has such a vacant expression, it's really off putting.

[Mikeee]

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2266/11935188/21212680/374552962.jpg

M2K is hilarious.

[Gates]

Also, Gates, had no idea you lived in Michigan. Have a few friends there. A couple in the Smash Community.Really? Who do you know? I'm guessing Mikey Lenetia since you're a Peach main.


http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2266/11935188/21212680/374552962.jpg

M2K is hilarious.Too good.

[BerserkChip]

I can't play as GaW either, especially in Melee. I was forced to play as him in a melee match once because this douche Earl wouldn't let me pick my character because he started the game before I got the chance to pick and got all pissy when I wanted to restart and threatened to take the controller away, so I was like "Fine, be that way, I'll just play as GaW then." and then he stalked me with Marth and I died. I couldn't use any of GaW's smashes, they just feel too laggy and risky.

PS, I got yelled at for playing as snake today. And I lost the match because a diddy player was item spamming. Oh, did I forget to mention they put items on? UGH. Now I know why people complain about items so much. How am I supposed to camp and fire missiles when fucking pokemon and baseball bats all flying all over the damn place?

[Gates]

G&W was always really bad in Melee. In Brawl he's actually good though.

Snake camps with grenades, not missiles. That was probably part of your problem.

And that's not why items are turned off in tourney anyway.

[Suppi]

wow is this going to be a meme now... Yo *fill in blank* of all time!

[Mikeee]

Gates, I've met Mikey cause he's like BFFs with Peachkid, but I'm also pretty good friends with Vertical Horizon and Boxxy.

[Suppi]

G&W was always really bad in Melee. In Brawl he's actually good though.

Snake camps with grenades, not missiles. That was probably part of your problem.

And that's not why items are turned off in tourney anyway.

Why are items turned off in tourneys then? Because you can throw them for instant damage?

[Mikeee]

They're banned because items are dropped randomly. Tripping already added enough of a luck aspect.

[BerserkChip]

Gates, I've met Mikey cause he's like BFFs with Peachkid, but I'm also pretty good friends with Vertical Horizon and Boxxy.

*You have been banned from 4chan.*

[Mikeee]

Not my fault my friend uses that as his tag D:

[Gates]

wow is this going to be a meme now... Yo *fill in blank* of all time!It's been a meme lol.


Why are items turned off in tourneys then? Because you can throw them for instant damage?Not that either.

One very specific reason why items are banned in tourney is this situation: The whole game has been incredibly close and both players are now near kill percent. One player gets the other off the edge and plans to bait them into recovering so he can land a forward smash. Just as he's charging his smash and about to let go, a Bob-omb or exploding capsule spawns at his feet causing him to attack right into it, hit it, and die, losing the match that he had effectively won.

In friendlies people can pretty much just laugh it off, but at a high level tourney where you have a lot of money on the line it's unacceptable. That is the greatest example of the true reason why items are banned: Randomness. A little randomness is always present in any game but items take it to an unacceptable level.


Gates, I've met Mikey cause he's like BFFs with Peachkid, but I'm also pretty good friends with Vertical Horizon and Boxxy.I've seen Boxxy around before, he's pretty good. He almost beat SamuraiPanda in Snake dittos once a while back.


*You have been banned from 4chan.*He has a Boxxy shirt too. I seen it.

[BerserkChip]

Not my fault my friend uses that as his tag D:

Tag? Like the brawl name thing? I always use "BOOTS" because of Snake's air backward A.

[CRASHiC]

I love unbalanced game

Clearly because you play Melee, which in the past has proven just as unbalanced, with streams of one character completely dominating the competitive scene. Now that the game has progressed for 8 years, we see more balance as people master their charecters, yet, we see Puffs slowly starting to dominate, and not just Mango anymore. Hungrybox can beat Mew2King consistently now.


with an abnormally low number of ATs

Advance techniques don't make a good game. By that standard, Street Fighter is a bad game.


that rewards techniques such as camping and stalling far more than any other fighting game ever

Not true. Yomi will always favor the defender, regardless of the game. At low level play, we see players charging in without caution. At mid level play, this is where we see the campy game begin and exist the strongest.
At high level play, it deteriorates, but still exist to some degree, and finally at top level play, camping is gone and the traditional game of baiting and punishing is again employed that exist in every fighting game. Nearly every fighting game has this same skill level gap. We don't see it in Melee, because those in mid level play are far more worried about improving their technical skill than worrying about their approach options.
DMG and Plank has not won a major tournament, and plank pulls the same things in Melee as well. I also call into question the Melee Genesis Grand final, which despite being an upset, involved Peach vs. Puff, the two campiest viable characters in the game. In fact, Melee is moving more and more to the campy play style.I can show you equal melee video of awful camping matches equal to any Brawl matches that you can show me, as well as Turtling in Evo. I main A.B.A. in Guilty Gear, and we will turtle you all day, and sweep your entire crew by doing so. We have, can and will continue to turtle without punishment.


while still managing to lack any serious technical matters

If technical skill defined good players, then why does Mew2King loose to Ally? Technical skill only separates the high level from players from the low level players, but it in no way equates to a bad competitive game, because the better player will still win. At top level play, the amount of technical skill a game has does not matter.

[Mikeee]

First, you're an idiot because I've said about 5 times in the past few pages I don't play Melee.

And, even if I did... uhh... the Entire top 2 tiers are tourney viable in Melee. Fox, Falco, Sheik, Jigglypuff, Marth... they all have top representation.

Hungrybox has beat M2K in one or two tournaments? Yeaahhh.... no, M2K is better than Hungry, and M2K just doesn't play well against Puff.

And err, Genesis Finals weren't an upset, because Mango won. But, other than that, I don't understand how Jigglypuff could "Camp" without a projectile, but ok. Jigglypuff is only good for her retarded recovery and rest set ups. She doesn't "Camp". Peach CAN camp, but Armada doesn't and he's the player who made it that far. DSW, another top player, is very aggressive with his combos. As far as brawl goes, Plank has beaten players such as SK92, DSF, and NL but Stalling. Dojo stalled out against DEHF while Melee Finals were going on.

And, Brawl has an amazingly small skill level gap because of the lack of Advanced Techniques. Melee requires the use of wavedashing to improve spacing and l-canceling to improve combos. These things lead to a skill gap.

Also, SF has Advanced techniques. I.E.- Focus Canceling. Also, they have combos, which don't exist in brawl, and strategic Ultra Combos.

EDIT: And lol? M2K admits he has no tech skill lmfao.

[Ckarasu]

First, you're an idiot because I've said about 5 times in the past few pages I don't play Melee.

And, even if I did... uhh... the Entire top 2 tiers are tourney viable in Melee. Fox, Falco, Sheik, Jigglypuff, Marth... they all have top representation.

Hungrybox has beat M2K in one or two tournaments? Yeaahhh.... no, M2K is better than Hungry, and M2K just doesn't play well against Puff.

And err, Genesis Finals weren't an upset, because Mango won. But, other than that, I don't understand how Jigglypuff could "Camp" without a projectile, but ok. Jigglypuff is only good for her retarded recovery and rest set ups. She doesn't "Camp". Peach CAN camp, but Armada doesn't and he's the player who made it that far. DSW, another top player, is very aggressive with his combos. As far as brawl goes, Plank has beaten players such as SK92, DSF, and NL but Stalling. Dojo stalled out against DEHF while Melee Finals were going on.

And, Brawl has an amazingly small skill level gap because of the lack of Advanced Techniques. Melee requires the use of wavedashing to improve spacing and l-canceling to improve combos. These things lead to a skill gap.

Also, SF has Advanced techniques. I.E.- Focus Canceling. Also, they have combos, which don't exist in brawl, and strategic Ultra Combos.

EDIT: And lol? M2K admits he has no tech skill lmfao.

That's all fine and dandy, but I still believe Brawl to be the better game. Just saying.

Also, I doubt the top two tiers are as tourney viable as you believe. Besides, almost any character in Brawl can be used in tournaments. All except for Ganondorf and Captain Falcon (You need to be crazy good with them for them to be usable).

There are plenty of ATs in Brawl, but not quite as much as Melee. Melee was boring, as you had to learn Wavedashing to be considered good, it seemed. I prefer good, old fashion dashing to space myself.

[Mikeee]

It's ok to like Brawl more. Melee was just more competitive.

And the top two tiers are tourney viable.

[Ckarasu]

It's ok to like Brawl more. Melee was just more competitive.

And the top two tiers are tourney viable.

I'd prefer most characters being viable. In Brawl, it's entirely possible to use the mid tier characters and have a chance of winning. No matchup is that stacked up against anyone (save for bottom tier). Whether people choose them or not is an entirely different matter.

[Mikeee]

No mid tier character wins a national level tourney.

[Ckarasu]

No mid tier character wins a national level tourney.

It's still possible. It's just that most people are adverse to disadvantages. So, they don't want to choose someone like Lucas.

[Kite]

In melee only the bottom tiers and Zelda and GaW cant win a tournament, except yoshi, if its Fumi using him

I dont recall anyone winning a major tournament in Brawl with anyone below c tier. Why you ask:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:hISXqD06q_yE6M:http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a285/lozocara/Metanight.png

[Ckarasu]

In melee only the bottom tiers and Zelda and GaW cant win a tournament, except yoshi, if its Fumi using him

I don't recall anyone winning a major tournament in Brawl with anyone below c tier. Why you ask:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:hISXqD06q_yE6M:http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a285/lozocara/Metanight.png

Matchup wise,almost any one has a shot. Most advantages are only slight. As said, only Ganondorf and Captain Falcon have it really rough. I said it was possible to win with almost anyone. Can you prove that statement wrong?

[Kite]

Ill answer that question with another question

Can you find a battle, where M2K using mk, while being serious, loses to a low tier

[Ckarasu]

Ill answer that question with another question

Can you find a battle, where M2K using mk, while being serious, loses to a low tier

No. I'll just say that you can't really prove me wrong. As it is always possible to win. Plausible is a completely different matter, though. I was just being technical.

[Kite]

Of course you can always "win", but you cant win big, unless your at bob level

[Ckarasu]

Of course you can always "win", but you cant win big, unless your at bob level

There's always a chance of winning, no matter who you fight.

[Kite]

Till you show proof of that Im not believing it

[Ckarasu]

Till you show proof of that, I'm not believing it

It just makes sense. Regardless of how small, there is always a chance of victory.

[Kite]

What cannot be proven does not exist, regardless of sense

What makes sense is not always true

[Ckarasu]

What cannot be proven does not exist, regardless of sense

What makes sense is not always true

Prove to me, without a shadow of a doubt, that it is impossible to beat Metaknight (M2K's) with a low tier character. Even the matchups will never outright say it's impossible. You can't prove it, either.