Would cecil be overpowered if he could swap forms with R+[] out of ex? [Archive]

OmniFalcon

08-02-2010, 05:02 PM

Ive been playing cecil more lately and I descovered the combos he gets in his ex mode because of his proteus ability. Its so fun to do them I wish he could do them all the time. So I was thinking; if they made a sequel to this game would it be too much to let him swap forms like this all the time? Cuz it could give him the improvements he needs.

TKG09

08-02-2010, 05:13 PM

He'd still suck as SnL would still rape him.

TWOxACROSS

08-02-2010, 05:33 PM

That's a good question...seemingly it's not that big of a deal for him to swap back and forth, but the links that could come from it could get crazy. But then again, it's not like Goblin Punch, which would be absurd out of Ex Mode >.<

I'd have to say...a tentative "possibly."

08-02-2010, 05:33 PM

He's still crap, which is the issue.

Shuruka

08-02-2010, 05:53 PM

now now, cecil isnt THAT bad. he's low teir yes but he can still be used effectively. on subject, i don't think it'd be that bad, he'd be a bit better but i still think that doesn't matter to much, just use an EX build or a hybrid with something else other then just ex

ying_xiong

08-02-2010, 09:06 PM

That's a very good question. I honestly don't see Cecil being all that overpowered if he could switch between the two outside of EX. The only problem would be it couldn't be done using R+Square, because then as soon as he gets a full ex gauge, he wouldn't be able to do it unless he goes into EX Mode.

HYNE

08-02-2010, 09:15 PM

Not overpowered, but much more playable.

Speedy07

08-02-2010, 09:21 PM

Not overpowered, but much more playable.

What ^ said :P

Thiefcopy

08-02-2010, 11:02 PM

Not overpowered, but much more playable.

Yeah, there would definitely be some creative combos as a result, but he would still be far from overpowered. Plus, it's just really fun to switch back and forth, I'd love to have it as a permanent ability, although I'd imagine it would take quite a bit of CP if they did include it.

flipclips

08-02-2010, 11:12 PM

well im not much of a pro w/ cecil but imo, i believe if he could job change without EX mode its not gonna overpower him, it'll just improve cecils mindgaming cuz switching in front of people makes them guard from reaction, but will it make cecil faster? when he uses moves then switch forms to make his attack speed faster? i dunno i dont use him much :P

Shuruka

08-03-2010, 12:10 AM

Not overpowered, but much more playable.

^This.

he's barely playable online now unless you stick to one form or an ex build but EX is not his style of build.

Scott

08-03-2010, 12:14 AM

I don't think he'd become overpowered, but I would wonder what his Ex-Mode ability would be if he could switch freely.

Wedge

08-03-2010, 12:17 AM

Gawd no he wouldn't be OP. He wouldn't even be that much better :/

Why is there a topic on this?

IMO Instead of making topics on what you WANT Cecil to have, you should be exploring what he has already and trying to expand his meta.

OhHellIt'sDan

08-03-2010, 02:23 AM

Cecil's greatest power is already without flaw and beyond reproach. And that is the power to make us laugh.

The awesome threat of Cecil.

Skittles

08-03-2010, 02:44 AM

hmm I'm not a cecil expert but I don't think he would be overpowered if he could change jobs withought being in ex mode but I guess it will make him a little more playable.

Ghurdrich

08-03-2010, 06:45 AM

I dunno. I'd class that ability as just a hair above 'Pointless' on the scale of cool things.

It's pretty damned easy to switch forms anyways, once you get used to everything. I for one am totally comfortable with that aspect of his gameplay. People are talking about links and stuff, but the truth is, he gets one, maybe two links from being able to switch on command? AND they're not great? He doesn't really have any moves that would benefit from it, and the only real practical use is the risky business that Flipclips posted.

switching in front of people makes them guard from reaction
And really, that's pretty dumb. That would get old and moldy pretty fast.

533787655464

08-03-2010, 08:13 AM

It would be awesome, because that's my favourite thing to do in Ex Mode. R + [] for victory! Not really. I wish it did damage.... somehow....

Fenrir7

08-03-2010, 08:24 AM

would be nice to be able to get out of combos by switching classes,
maybe an ex block or something.....but that would be overpowered wouldn't it? D:

533787655464

08-03-2010, 10:48 AM

A permanent Ex Guard Ability?! WHAT THE FUX

ying_xiong

08-03-2010, 11:26 AM

lol I'd be all over that if Cecil had that ability...

Maybe something that behaves like Omni Block (except instant, not a hold & release thing). But then even that would be overpowered since Cecil+Riposte would = GG. Unless of course he was staggered or had cooldown after, which then would make it terrible to use for switching between DK and PLD lol.

533787655464

08-03-2010, 11:55 AM

Maybe the ability should be slow, and instant in EX. Kind of like "Improved changing via EX." Some crap like that.

MoD

08-03-2010, 12:12 PM

No, i don't think that will make him better in fact that will be useless if you asked me..

and the only way to make him better is by
1. getting rid of his paladin side for have (most of them)stupid BRV attacks that anyone can block.
2. make DK faster.
3. give DK air HP attacks and BRV.

533787655464

08-03-2010, 12:37 PM

Basically, scrap Paladin, and buff DK? Lol

Skittles

08-03-2010, 01:18 PM

yeah I think paladin should get better bravery attack they are pretty easy to block
DK is good he just needs to be faster :3

Scott

08-03-2010, 01:21 PM

I think an interesting idea would be to heavily buff both DK and Paladin, and only allow a single switch when entering Ex-mode. You stay in that form until you enter Ex-mode again.

ying_xiong

08-03-2010, 01:37 PM

I think an interesting idea would be to heavily buff both DK and Paladin, and only allow a single switch when entering Ex-mode. You stay in that form until you enter Ex-mode again.

Then players like Zidane just have to juggle an EX mode DK in the air and it's GG. Not to mention your opponent would know which moves you can't perform.

I don't even think Cecil needs all THAT huge a buff. For example, Cecil would be vastly improved if, say, Searchlight spawned at opponent's location and followed (similar to Bind) instead of Cecil having to toss it over to him. Or if Saint's Fall wasn't so awkward and easily punishable. Or if PLD just had one more bravery attack that was quick enough to get rid of SnL w/o being punished and could combo into other attacks.

Just a slight tweak here and there and Cecil would've been way better.

MoD

08-03-2010, 01:58 PM

I think an interesting idea would be to heavily buff both DK and Paladin, and only allow a single switch when entering Ex-mode. You stay in that form until you enter Ex-mode again.

Sorry, but i think that would suck!
he will be even more boring to play as and it may become a disadvantage against some of the characters.

NexusNemesis

08-03-2010, 02:13 PM

sorry but... doesnt he go from pally to DK when using a ground move?... or is that just me.... i dont understand the fuzz, because u can change his class whenever u want.

MoD

08-03-2010, 02:20 PM

When he's in EX-mode he can change forms with out the need to attack by pressing R+[].

and we are discussing about what if he can do that out side of EX-mode would that make him better?

NexusNemesis

08-03-2010, 02:45 PM

When he's in EX-mode he can change forms with out the need to attack by pressing R+[].

and we are discussing about what if he can do that out side of EX-mode would that make him better?

im aware of that, but u CAN change classes outside Ex-mode..... by using an attack that is stuck to one button combination, that the other one doesnt have+being on/in the ground/air

Haruhiist

08-03-2010, 02:50 PM

They mean, as if you were in EX mode. Easily switching forms without using a HP attack which could get you punished.

Skittles

08-03-2010, 03:32 PM

Then players like Zidane just have to juggle an EX mode DK in the air and it's GG. Not to mention your opponent would know which moves you can't perform.

I don't even think Cecil needs all THAT huge a buff. For example, Cecil would be vastly improved if, say, Searchlight spawned at opponent's location and followed (similar to Bind) instead of Cecil having to toss it over to him. Or if Saint's Fall wasn't so awkward and easily punishable. Or if PLD just had one more bravery attack that was quick enough to get rid of SnL w/o being punished and could combo into other attacks.

Just a slight tweak here and there and Cecil would've been way better.
yeah i agree with you on the searchlight being spawned right near the opponet instead of it being tossed. And about the saint's fall not being so akward and punishable.like you said little improvements would have made cecil a little better at the least.

majiger

08-03-2010, 03:48 PM

Technically...if you look at how FF4 was played he should be a DK until he switches to EX Mode which should make him a Paladin...
So he should still have two different characters but just a wider moveset.

OT: No it wouldn't make it overpowered, it would just give ADD people like me another to play with Cecil...like powermashing []+R for a free light show lawl...

I agree with Wedge, look for something he already has instead of asking for new stuff

Goody

08-03-2010, 05:29 PM

I don't think freely switching classes outside of ExMode would be a bad idea, but I think it'd be an almost useless addition since switching isn't that hard as it is. What would vastly improve Cecil's metagame would be if you could switch between DK and PAL outside of Ex and that counted that as an attack (like Shield Bash does or something). That'd get rid of SnL and Cecil's biggest flaw would be covered ;]

majiger

08-03-2010, 10:03 PM

That would make him OP if he had a free guard >_> Unless this guard had a sort of animation and cooldown that would be a free omni guard almost...

Scott

08-03-2010, 10:15 PM

Sorry, but i think that would suck!
he will be even more boring to play as and it may become a disadvantage against some of the characters.

Then players like Zidane just have to juggle an EX mode DK in the air and it's GG. Not to mention your opponent would know which moves you can't perform.

I don't even think Cecil needs all THAT huge a buff. For example, Cecil would be vastly improved if, say, Searchlight spawned at opponent's location and followed (similar to Bind) instead of Cecil having to toss it over to him. Or if Saint's Fall wasn't so awkward and easily punishable. Or if PLD just had one more bravery attack that was quick enough to get rid of SnL w/o being punished and could combo into other attacks.

Just a slight tweak here and there and Cecil would've been way better.

I guess you guys don't understand the concept of heavily buffing. Make both version capable in the air and on the ground, with one being faster and softer hitting, and one being slower and harder hitting.

Nexus_Nocturnal

08-03-2010, 10:26 PM

But the point of Cecil is that Paladin is supposed to be the Air version of him and DK is supposed to be the ground version of him. Making them equal in both the air and ground regardless of class would destroy the whole concept of his character in Dissidia.

Scott

08-03-2010, 10:28 PM

So? We're talking about what could be changed.

533787655464

08-04-2010, 06:40 AM

So? We're talking about what could be changed.

Give him wings. Also a couple more swords. And invincibility.

Ghurdrich

08-04-2010, 06:45 AM

Give him wings. Also a couple more swords. And invincibility.

That would actually be freaking cool. Even minus the invincibility. Like, 6 wings. And some floating Xaldin spears. He'd be gdlk

533787655464

08-04-2010, 06:46 AM

Maybe some nipple tassels, aswell

Ghurdrich

08-04-2010, 06:51 AM

Maybe some nipple tassels, aswell

That shoot lasers, Gaga style.

533787655464

08-04-2010, 06:52 AM

And shoulder-mounted machine guns.

Ok this thread has kind of got off-topic. I blame Ghurdrich.
=== Double post was automatically merged. ===
Also! Bill Nye the science guy!

Bill Bill Bill Bill Bill Bill Bill!!!!

ewan08

08-04-2010, 10:24 AM

You could test this by using Puppeteer's Wheel, I will make a VId Sooner or LAter...

ying_xiong

08-04-2010, 10:24 AM

I guess you guys don't understand the concept of heavily buffing. Make both version capable in the air and on the ground, with one being faster and softer hitting, and one being slower and harder hitting.

that sounds sort of like a Zelda/Sheikh thing.

But man would Cecil take up so much CP if it were like that. I mean, he takes up a lot already.

How would one switch between the two then, if both were Air and Ground capable?

Scott

08-04-2010, 11:25 AM

that sounds sort of like a Zelda/Sheikh thing.

But man would Cecil take up so much CP if it were like that. I mean, he takes up a lot already.

How would one switch between the two then, if both were Air and Ground capable?

They can only switch when they enter Ex-Mode. To switch again, they'd have to enter Ex-Mode again.

MoD

08-04-2010, 11:43 AM

that sounds sort of like a Zelda/Sheikh thing.

Actually it will be more like samus/zero suit samus..
after using her Final smash she can't tern back into samus, unless she use it again.
i think that what Scott meant.

Scott

08-04-2010, 11:52 AM

Exactly like that, but I didn't even think of Samus.

ying_xiong

08-04-2010, 01:54 PM

that just sounds like a whole load of problems with a character like that in the dissidia system. One of them being, what if one wanted to go into EX Mode but didn't want to switch? What about all that CP that would be wasted if they never achieve a full ex gauge in a match?

I don't mean to criticize your suggestion, I'm just saying that IMO a drastic change to Cecil isn't necessary. Just a slight tweak here and there and you got rid of his biggest problems.

Scott

08-04-2010, 02:10 PM

I don't care if my idea is criticised, I'm not too precious with the idea. It'd be an interesting concept, however, not without flaw. =P

majiger

08-04-2010, 04:16 PM

Halve Cecil's CP if they were to use that idea? That way he would use up just as much CP as he does now...well maybe a bit more if he gets a few more attacks.

What if he swaps after a burst like Samus does? Maybe power down his burst so it won't have the ability to break somoene unless they are really low on BRV?

Exdeath

08-07-2010, 05:15 AM

it would be nice

Scott

08-24-2010, 11:39 AM

Wouldn't it be nice if all of Cecil's physical attacks had a small, quick slash before the parts of them that we know? It'd make it so much easier for him to hit.

533787655464

08-24-2010, 11:56 AM

Wouldn't it be nice if Cloud's Cross-Slash had a quick slash at the start.

I'Cie

08-24-2010, 12:10 PM

Itd make him more enjoyable. Also, I could probally see if that happened various future glitches, but meh, that IMO. It could be used as a sorta fakeout, if they changed up the animation and time it take to transform.
Mindgamez son. Lol.

533787655464

08-24-2010, 12:31 PM

Eh, Cecil is kinda like the opposite of OK, in my opinion.

He has fairly good moves, slow startup, normal cooldown.

But then they are kinda the same, aswell.

Cecil is regarded as more of a punisher, same with OK.
Cecil can change forms, OK can change jobs
Each one is good for different things.