Strategy: Ground based Starfall

[Scott]

So basically the idea is to use Thunder Crest as a sort of shield while using the Ground based Starfall, in a manner similar to the Red Flare.

The video shows it really ruining the CPU's AI, but I'm interested in knowing how players react to it. I briefly discussed it with Kraid last night, but he didn't seem to really have enough knowledge about it for any experienced input on the matter.

Would people like to test it?

YouTube- ‪Concept: Ground Starfall‬‎ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idybNU6zjNM)

Edit: Fixed the video.

[Haruhiist]

Projectiles?

[ZeRo_oVerLoaD]

Your vid is not properly sync'd.
Vid is slowmo, sound is normal.
But... wattaheck... Projectile will stop you...

[Scott]

What? Failtube is fail.

The video description on Youtube mentions projectiles being better than you. I love how quickly everyone is to put down an idea.

Part way through the video, I use both Thunder Crest and Red Flare.

[ZeRo_oVerLoaD]

What? Failtube is fail.

The video description on Youtube mentions projectiles being better than you. I love how quickly everyone is to put down an idea.

Part way through the video, I use both Thunder Crest and Red Flare.
:) We are not viewing this in the YT site.
Also about the vid failure, YT is having troubles playing MP4s, try other formats.

ok, i'll watch it again completely.

[Scott]

Xvid converts it into MP4s though... Auuugh. Fail. Either way, the base idea is for the crest to suck melee people in, as an extra line of defence, as such.

[Haruhiist]

Almost every character has a way to get through Red Flare though, it just seems like an extension of the Red Flare protected starfall with some added protection and ground gliding. Except there's that little opening (because chances are the opponent will be in the air when you use Red Flare) below the Flare and if you use Starfall while gliding, some ground based moves could catch you like Terra's fire or Kefka's Twisty Turny Blizzaga (but who equips that, right).

This is just theory shit though, you know, just the stuff you might want to check out when you test the thing proper.

[Neo Bahamut]

Ignoring the sound problems, I'm not sure why Jecht couldn't have dealt with that easily. I don't know how far above the ground that Thunder Crest can snatch you, but he could have always used Ultimate Jecht Shot.

Nice idea, though.

[Scott]

Fixed the video. Either it's not done processing, or the quality drops significantly when you upload .flv format.

I understand this isn't the totally ultimate secret skill that can destroy everything, but nothing ever is, it's just an idea and a possible use for the Ground Starfall.

[Neo Bahamut]

Well, you were fighting in Order's Sanctuary. Maybe if you used it somewhere that had more obstructions, it could be more viable?

[533787655464]

Wouldn't the opponent have to be on the ground, for it to work?

Because Red Flare has tracking at start, and it would be at a irrelevant spot if the Red Flare is floating above your head.

[Scott]

Red Flare doesn't have much, if any tracking at a distance.

Probably not the best stage to show it off, but I always default that stage for some reason.

[533787655464]

The tracking influences the position of the Flare, no doubt about that.

[Scott]

But it just kinda blurts out if they aren't within range, doesn't it?

[Kayarine]

Locking off disables tracking properties. So you could lock off, throw a red Flare, then lock on again and it'll be right in front of you. That's what I used to do when I wanted to hide behind Flare and Thunder Crest (but I was just messing around with the CPU, so I can't give any more input).

[Zero_Ruzai]

That strategy doesn't really work great. First off: Red flare does track the opponent.. for about 10m then it stops, providing good defense against brave attacks. That's why most starfaller's chill in the middle of that. In regards to Thunder Crescent, if you notice, if you start using flare and you hang out in the middle of the crescent it activates or something... Idk, but from what I've seen, it goes away faster with you in it than if you stay on the edges. I always setup Blue Flare>Light Crescent>Red Flare>Thunder Crescent, and just stay inside the Red Flare while the others call for a slight distraction. By the end of the traps, you'll most likely end up with the opponent ripping off an attack and nearly hitting you, but more than like you would have dealt some BRV and maybe some HP damage if Blue Flare had hit. The Emperor is totally unreliable since all his attacks are visible traps unfortunately, but I have seen some good characters play as his.. try on YouTube and learn how2starfalllikeapro from there ;)

[Scott]

You need to add some paragraphs into that. I know how to play The Emperor, I was just putting forward an idea.

[Zero_Ruzai]

Lol my bad, but I'm just saying that Thunder Crescent doesn't last the entire duration of charging starfall. I think that was the point of me writing a book in my last post. My fault :D

[533787655464]

I am pretty sure that if an opponent goes near the LC, it activates, and may not capture the opponent, therefore leaving it activated for a shorter duration than it normally is, unactivated.

[Scott]

Still though, the point of it is to actually suck people in when they try to stop your Starfall with melee attacks, not to land Starfall.

Excessive retard dodging by the computers doesn't exactly show how well this would work on real players, however, based on Jecht Blade and Triumphant Grasp, if they do attack with homing, it could be said that they might land in the trap.

[Zero_Ruzai]

It depends, if the opponent dodges right before landing in it, it goes off, with no1 in it. But if you walk up to it, it goes off but you're not actually in the circle, it'll still drag you in. You would think it'd only go off when the opponent steps into it, but for some reason, the duration is noticably shorter if the Emperor steps/floats into it. I guess you have to stick to the borders and not actually step in it.
And wouldn't Triumphant Grasp destroy Thunder Crescent? I've noticed some attacks like Meterorain, Innocense, Braver (striking down) etc. actually destroy the spell before it goes off. Yet another flaw in the Emperor's battle plan I think.

[Scott]

I honestly don't think duration is a problem as evidence by the final Starfall in the video.

To better illustrate my point, it would have probably been better had I cancelled the last Starfall and used Flare.

[533787655464]

Good point.

I think that it MIGHT work vs. characters with only melee attacks or sucky projectile HP's.

I never would of thought of it.
=== Double post was automatically merged. ===

It depends, if the opponent dodges right before landing in it, it goes off, with no1 in it. But if you walk up to it, it goes off but you're not actually in the circle, it'll still drag you in. You would think it'd only go off when the opponent steps into it, but for some reason, the duration is noticably shorter if the Emperor steps/floats into it. I guess you have to stick to the borders and not actually step in it.
And wouldn't Triumphant Grasp destroy Thunder Crescent? I've noticed some attacks like Meterorain, Innocense, Braver (striking down) etc. actually destroy the spell before it goes off. Yet another flaw in the Emperor's battle plan I think.

TC goes through anything, apart from Ex Guard. But you can only Ex Guard and escape if you don't get hit first.

[Zero_Ruzai]

I noticed that all worked out well in the vid, but for some reason, my TC duration shortens to the point to where I can't even finish the Starfall. Odd stuff, and I noticed that Jecht's TG got him caught in the TC but I meant if he hit it from the side with TG it crushes it. Hmm, idk I'm just trying to see if there's anything flawed in The Emperors trap setup and how to improve it

[Scott]

A circle doesn't have a "side" to hit. Jecht would be sucked in regardless.

If you were trying to improve the Emperor's trap setup, you wouldn't be theory-bashing my idea so much. As it seems to me you've just continued to say "It won't work, it doesn't work".

I will accept that it doesn't work when someone could try it out and post some videos against real players. I can't currently fight real players, so I can't exactly test it.

[Zero_Ruzai]

Yeah cuz I've played as the emperor and I'm not stupid? And yes, I just found that Jecht gets sucked in every which way. So that much works. I'm not trying to shoot everything down >.>

And a circle is not an infinite amount of space. It's a curved edge. "Border" if that makes you happy.

[533787655464]

Yeah cuz I've played as the emperor and I'm not stupid? And yes, I just found that Jecht gets sucked in every which way. So that much works. I'm not trying to shoot everything down >.>

And a circle is not an infinite amount of space. It's a curved edge. "Border" if that makes you happy.

Don't mess with Scott, he get's what he wants :P

[Zero_Ruzai]

Sounds like he cries when not everyone agrees, even if they're not always right

[majiger]

I love the idea but I personally don't think it works well vs humans. Since the AI is retarded and always does it's dodge dance whenever you have a TC/Red/Blue Flare out :|
Jecht had many openings in the vid where he could have smacked your Starfall, but it seems almost like a basic strategy.
Red Flare -> TC -> Blue Flare if you want -> Starfall around the ground? Maybe even put some mines XD

[Zero_Ruzai]

The mines take up alot of time and are easier to get through which wouldn't really be a factor if the TC didn't have limited time itself, but it'd add on to it a bit, could mess with the opponent's head, so it may be just something fun to throw in now and then. Maybe dynamite could keep the opponent away for a few seconds..?

[Cloud of Darkness]

Mines are only good in my opinion for the air, of course landmines are good for when the enemy is trapped in a lightning crest, but otherwise, they just block magic, and make the enemy dash through them.

But when it comes to aerial mines, you have to remember that mines have an absorb effect, sooo let's say you let out a few Aerial Mines above(Around) you, now basically a bombard or light crest will send the foe up into the mines, that really is the only nice thing about them, their absorb effect after you hit the enemy. (Then when in closed in spaces, they make moving around pretty tough, since you can't just dash like crazy for risk of running into another trap.)

As for dynamite, I love that attack, very powerful, but it can be blocked, dashed, and erased, but it still has a high absorb effect, and it is good for sucking the enemy in towards your traps, or as Omni stated, a decoy to keep the enemy occupied while you set out a few traps. (I have used Dynamite for both)

My favorite combo is Dynamite > Lightning Crest > Bombard > Aerial Mines. Situational, very, powerful, very much.

[Neo Bahamut]

If you were trying to improve the Emperor's trap setup, you wouldn't be theory-bashing my idea so much. As it seems to me you've just continued to say "It won't work, it doesn't work".

I think you misunderstand the idea of constructive criticism a bit. Don't all of the times he's corrected strengthen your plan? If he does find a flaw, that's something to build on, but it's not necessarily a bad thing that he's tenacious about finding one.

[Zero_Ruzai]

I'll see if I can get a vid with me as Emperor on there to show you what I mean about the traps.

[Neo Bahamut]

We know the traps are visible. >.> I don't see why you think that's such a huge problem. Of COURSE they're visible. If you couldn't SEE them, how would you counter them?

Try to picture in your head remembering the positions of a field of air mines, a Thunder Crest, some ground mines, a dynamite, & a few Flares.

Now say you're on the Edge of Madness.

Good luck with that.

[Zero_Ruzai]

I wasn't referring to visibility, simply the duration.

EDIT-alright found where I was wrong. The trap goes away after TheEmperor is damage, not by hitting it. TC, not the mines or anything. The mines actually have long enough duration to last for almost the entire Starfall (if you set out like 6, unfortunately, they're bypassed by dash =[ ) Aerial Acts as a good flare for everything but close-range HP attacks fortunately, but that's about your only long lasting shield against BRV attacks.

[Cloud of Darkness]

I noticed when you use a lightning crest on an edge it seems to have its duration cut in half, is this because by making one on the edge of an object you can create another and have two crests?

[Zero_Ruzai]

I just experimented, I don't think the duration was cut down. But if you cast it and it hangs over an edge, the time goes down a lot. I can't really figure it out myself >.>

[Cloud of Darkness]

No matter, I also noticed when this happens in the Rift, even if it is not formed on an edge, and the building warps, the crest stays for 3-4 seconds. (Same with World of Darkness)

[Zero_Ruzai]

Yes! World of Darkness was where I was noticing it as well. I've never played as the Emperor on The Rift. I think out of all the characters, he's probably my worst.

[Cloud of Darkness]

Yeah, but he is so fun to play as, you need to think to get somewhere with him.
The rift is really not a good place for him unless it is the omega in my opinion.

[Zero_Ruzai]

Yeah, he seems to excel more in some cramped stages.. but it depends. I tried Kefka's tower against max WoL and managed several Starfall hits, and I laid traps all around, but I always had a weakness above me or below me it seemed. In the end, I got slaughtered when he had 2400 hp left. On the up side, Emperor raped the AI on Edge of Madness

[Cloud of Darkness]

I know some people who say Kefka's tower is good for the Emperor, but it really is not that great, I usually find myself camping in the lower areas where it is more cramped, but there is a pretty large space in the upper area, it just makes it hard for the emperor to get anywhere with his traps.

[Zero_Ruzai]

Must've been my problem, I got slaughtered lol, I was like whoa, I don't think I've ever done a match that bad :confused:

[Cloud of Darkness]

Well basically make sure you have both flares out, then focus on getting the enemy caught in a lightning crest, use Light sigil in cramped areas, and Dynamite does incredible damage. (As do the mines)

[Scott]

I love the idea but I personally don't think it works well vs humans. Since the AI is retarded and always does it's dodge dance whenever you have a TC/Red/Blue Flare out :|
Jecht had many openings in the vid where he could have smacked your Starfall, but it seems almost like a basic strategy.
Red Flare -> TC -> Blue Flare if you want -> Starfall around the ground? Maybe even put some mines XD

The two times Jecht lands in my Thunder Crest is more of what I was trying to show, though. I should have cancelled Starfall when he did, and used a Flare instead. I didn't the first time as my own Blue Flare was chasing me, but I should have the second time to better illustrate what I mean without having people think of it as a way to land Starfall.


I think you misunderstand the idea of constructive criticism a bit. Don't all of the times he's corrected strengthen your plan? If he does find a flaw, that's something to build on, but it's not necessarily a bad thing that he's tenacious about finding one.

I got tired of it and snapped. =P

Anyway, I fought a few other characters using the concept, and found out the AI is pretty freaking stupid.

Cecil is a joke; if he uses Dark Flame, just move out of it's way, I also have a video of the Crest sucking him in from quite a distance away during Saint's Fall.

Onion Knight has Firaga, but I don't think many people use that, so unless he uses Thunder, he has a good chance of being stuck in the trap. If people do start using Firaga, you're forcing them to waste CP on a situational occurrence, which is pretty good.

Squall didn't perform Beat Fang when I did it, but Aerial Circle got him sucked into the trap reasonably well.

But, the AI isn't what's important here; it's being able to suck people into the trap. If they do have moves other than close range attacks, it severely limits their options in which to counter, if they don't odds are it'll suck them in.

I'm more interested in seeing how it plays out with Squall, will dodging away from Beat Fang and Heel Crush get him sucked in from such close proximity? Sure, he has Magic to counter it, but it's not the most reliable, or forces him to actually land on the ground and then perform it.