"Dissidence" Tournament Sep '09 Official Rules

[TWOxACROSS]

Alrighty, so here’s those rules we’ve all been waiting for! Keep in mind that these rules aren’t exactly the set in stone rules for every tournament following. We’ll have many different tournaments with many different rule sets, just to give each one variety. However, these rules are set in stone for this tournament, so bickering about them is just a waste of time. Okay, here we go!

Basic Element Restriction
- Infinites are not allowed. They’re typically not even welcome on DF
- No Equipment can be worn. You can wear accessories that increase non-statistical elements, like a Chocobo Feather or Mog’s Amulet, but nothing else. This also includes not wearing anything that gives you a second chance like the Phoenix items. Basically, don't wear anything, just to be on the safe side
- No Summons are allowed. Win a battle with your wits alone, with no help from others!
- No “Exp to” Abilities are allowed. They can give a nearly match-toppling bonus when used in conjunction with Time Traveling and Special Days, as well as the Chocobo Bonus.
- No Ex-Bursts allowed. If you don’t know why, check around DF a little and you’ll see
- Ex-Guards are allowed. You can activate Ex-Mode while being attacked to stagger your opponent, however…
- Ex-Counter is not allowed. You cannot attack after using an Ex-Guard. Instead take this moment to recover and formulate a strategy
- Ex-Cancels are allowed. Certain characters can cancel out their current action by sacrificing the move into Ex-Mode. Use it wisely guys!

One last thing! Since people have been wondering about it, if you launch an attack...let's say...Emperor's Flare, and you Ex-Guard to stagger the opponent, and the Flare creeps up and hits them while they are still staggering, that's perfectly fine. I like to refer to those as "Lucky Shots." In such an instant, just be aware of your opponent's Ex-Level and what's happening on the field.

Please take note of these rules, as any breaking or bending of them will result in a LOSE for that Battle, or cause for immediate disqualification. And we wouldn’t want that now, would we? If an Ex-Burst or Ex-Counter is an accident, the players can redo the match if they both agree. If an agreement cannot be reached, the battle counts as a loss for the player who committed the restricted action.

Battle Setup Restriction
- Character Swapping is allowed between each round of a match-up. Choose wisely
- All fights take place on a Random Battlefield unless both players can agree to one for each round
- No Deific Judgment is allowed. Win by the seat of your pants or not at all!
- The victor of the match-up is the first player to get TWO WINS out of up to three rounds. The Finals require THREE WINS out of five rounds

Battle Dates
The official start of the Dissidence tournament is September 25. From then, you have FOUR (4) days to complete your match-up. Now, from RIGHT NOW, you can contact your opponent to set up a solid date (if you both know your schedules well enough in advance), just to get things set up early enough. Once the second round match-ups have been posted, you can again contact your opponent to set your Battle Date. Doing so allows us all enough chance to get our fights in, without much hassle.
Another good way to go about setting up your matches is to chat with your opponent through DF's chatbox in real-time, that way you both know when and where to battle. Also, be sure to pick a lobby on Adhoc Party without a lot of traffic on it, and be sure to CLOSE THE DOOR so that random people don't come in and accidentally crash your games.

Double Elimination - Your Second Chance
Even if you lose, you're not down for the count! After losing a match, you'll be sent to the Loser's Bracket, where you can compete again for the top spot of the non-winners. All rules apply, but you can also choose to accept your initial defeat, if you want.

Battle Report
When a match up is completed, the winner will post the results in the format used in this example...


Belts0091 vs NeroMD Battle Results
Round 1 = Squall vs Tidus - Winner TIDUS (NeroMD)
Round 2 = Jecht vs Cloud - Winner JECHT (Belts0091)
Round 3 = Jecht vs Tidus - Winner TIDUS (NeroMD)
Winner ~ NeroMD

...this will be posted on a special "Battle Results thread" for all to see. If a problem arises with the results (eg contesting a loss) can be addressed there. A separate "Battle Results Discussion thread" will be made for users to discuss the progress of the tournament. The winner must also submit the replay (converted into low quality) of the Decisive Battle (In the above case, Nero would submit the replay of the Jecht vs Tidus round) to DFFreplays@gmail.com. Be sure to title the replay file with the players, who they used, and who the winner was. We will then compile the replays on youtube so everyone else can see them!


**!! SAVE BATTLE REPLAYS !!**It is not required of you to convert and upload them to youtube unless there is a problem with the Battle Report. Any need to contest the outcome of a battle must be accompanied by evidence to support your claim. If no evidence is given, no ruling can be made! However, to reduce the need for such, let’s all play like honorable warriors and accept our fates.

The Big Three and the Oxymora
The “Big Three” and the “Oxymora” all receive a special title regarding their placing in the tournament and the character they represent. The first place winner also receives the Champion of Dissidence merit which can be displayed in your DF signature.

The titles themselves are my secret, and may not reflect the ones that Nero posted (since some of those are really just making fun :P). The title you receive is based on which of your three characters accrued you the most wins. So by using the Battle Report above as an example, Nero has two wins with his Tidus. If that trend continues, he will get a Tidus title if he wins a top spot. This gives more incentive to us to actually try harder with our mains, subbing in a reinforcement on battles you know they may not last.



Aim for the BIG THREE everyone, and good luck to us all!

Any questions, just let me know...

[NeroMD]

Me so hawny! Thanks for creating this belts.

[TWOxACROSS]

Me so hawny! Thanks for creating this belts.

Anything to get you hot! *ahem* anyway. Questions anyone?

[NeroMD]

Yeah Belts, What makes me so hawny about it?

[Nevfx]

Whats Oxymora?

[Vaanskylord]

*looks at Belts and Nero talking* ive heard enough ! lets go Terra *takes my Terra doll and leaves* to bad i cant enter the tournament *cries*

[TWOxACROSS]

Whats Oxymora?

"Oxymora" is the top ranker in the Loser's Bracket. If you receive this rank, you're basically the "Winner of the Losers," which is an oxymoron. So even if you lose, you can still end up with a title thanks to the double-elimination.

[Nevfx]

Oh thanks. I'm not in it, but I wanted to know thats all.

Cant wait for the results.

[Spyder]

No Extra Ability Swapping

Since you specifically mentioned the "Extra" abilities, I would assume it is alright to change around the move set, as well as the Actions and Support abilities, right?

[TWOxACROSS]

No Extra Ability Swapping

Since you specifically mentioned the "Extra" abilities, I would assume it is alright to change around the move set, as well as the Actions and Support abilities, right?

Precisely.

Basically the ruling means, if we fight, and I have "Disable Counter" on, but you don't have Counterattack on, I can't switch the Disable ability to something else.

Techniques and Support abilities are fine, though.

[funkyman02]

I'm sure we can, but I'll ask anyway. Say I'm attacking an opponent and I activate Ex Mode so I do more damage. Is this acceptable?

[NeroMD]

Yeah that's allowed. So for instance i use Hopstep, the first hit is without EX but the second hit i will activate my EX before i land the second hit.

[Rei-N]

=.= Just why exactly was EX Cancels banned?

Oh well, I wish to formulate a debate pertaining the issue for next tournament.

[TWOxACROSS]

Yep. The Ex-Cancel regards things like Jecht. Like if I charged Ultimate Jecht Shot, and you came up for a free hit, I could enter Ex-Mode and completely cancel out the charge. That's a no-no.

Other characters are perfectly fine to go Ex during their own attacks. Just be careful you don't launch into an Ex-Burst from the attack!

[NeroMD]

=.= Just why exactly was EX Cancels banned?

Oh well, I wish to formulate a debate pertaining the issue for next tournament.

EX cancel was allowed, Belts misunderstood me. Since your sacrificing EX guard for an offense tool.

[TWOxACROSS]

EX cancel was allowed, Belts misunderstood me. Since your sacrificing EX guard for an offense tool.

Yep, sorry guys! It's changed.

Ex-Cancel is allowed! Do it to your heart's content!

[Spyder]

Speaking of Ex Counter.

I had a recent match, practicing with these rules. I had enough brave to kill my opponent and so I use use an HP attack to charge him during his brave attack. He(in the attacking phase) ex-guarded my HP attack, but was still in the execution of the brave attack. The brave attack obviously hit me since it could not be canceled. If this were to happen in this tournament, would he be disqualified? In a situation like this, he is not allowed to use the ex-guard??? :confused:

[NeroMD]

Speaking of Ex Counter.

I had a recent match, practicing with these rules. I had enough brave to kill my opponent and so I use use an HP attack to charge him during his brave attack. He(in the attacking phase) ex-guarded my HP attack, but was still in the execution of the brave attack. The brave attack obviously hit me since it could not be canceled. If this were to happen in this tournament, would he be disqualified? In a situation like this, he is not allowed to use the ex-guard??? :confused:

These are by accident, I had some fights where i had these issues.

[TWOxACROSS]

Speaking of Ex Counter.

I had a recent match, practicing with these rules. I had enough brave to kill my opponent and so I use use an HP attack to charge him during his brave attack. He(in the attacking phase) ex-guarded my HP attack, but was still in the execution of the brave attack. The brave attack obviously hit me since it could not be canceled. If this were to happen in this tournament, would he be disqualified? In a situation like this, he is not allowed to use the ex-guard??? :confused:

Using Squall I presume?

In such a case...I suppose his use of it would be legitimate, since he was attacking before he went Ex. He used the Ex to deflect the attack, but it he wasn't countering.

I'd say that if an instance such as this were to come up, of course you'll save the replay, then finish with all three matches. If you both end up with two wins out of the three, you can submit the video of finish in question, and we will review it. After review, it'll either be grounds for disqualification or it'll eek by as a lucky move.

The basics for Ex-Counter is causing the opponent to stagger by going Ex and them launching into an attack while they are defenseless. So basically, no attacking the target while they are staggering in that instance.

[K´Genesis]

- Your Main Character must be used at least once in each match-up. Twice in the Finals. You are representing them, after all

Using my team as an example:

I got to the finals and I decide to start with Firion(secondary).
I win the first round and decide to play Firion again in the second, which I win again.
In this case, I have to switch to Squall(main) AND LOSE ON PURPOSE, forcing an eventual fourth match with Squall again(since the rules require two fights with the main on the finals) and maybe compromising the outcome of the match?

[TWOxACROSS]

- Your Main Character must be used at least once in each match-up. Twice in the Finals. You are representing them, after all

Using my team as an example:

I got to the finals and I decide to start with Firion(secondary).
I win the first round and decide to play Firion again in the second, which I win again.
In this case, I have to switch to Squall(main) AND LOSE ON PURPOSE, forcing an eventual fourth match with Squall again(since the rules require two fights with the main on the finals) and maybe compromising the outcome of the match?

Hm...that does create a problem...let me confer for a moment...

[funkyman02]

Speaking of Ex Counter.

I had a recent match, practicing with these rules. I had enough brave to kill my opponent and so I use use an HP attack to charge him during his brave attack. He(in the attacking phase) ex-guarded my HP attack, but was still in the execution of the brave attack. The brave attack obviously hit me since it could not be canceled. If this were to happen in this tournament, would he be disqualified? In a situation like this, he is not allowed to use the ex-guard??? :confused:

This poses a serious dilemma, imo. I had a fight against a Cloud using Squall. he started using Meteorain and I charged up an aerial RD to counter. He Ex'd causing me to stagger and got a hit with Meteorain. This could be somewhat abusable.

[TWOxACROSS]

This poses a serious dilemma, imo. I had a fight against a Cloud using Squall. he started using Meteorain and I charged up an aerial RD to counter. He Ex'd causing me to stagger and got a hit with Meteorain. This could be somewhat abusable.

Usable, yes, but not abuse-able, since it requires keen timing to go Ex at the right time. As stated before, since the attack is already launched before going Ex, it's not really a counter. You'd have to think of it kind of like Exdeath's All-Guard or Warrior of Light's Shield of Light, since they block attacks and then automatically counter.

But also, as stated before, just finish out all the rounds, and then if that battle needs a ruling to choose the winner, submit it for review, and we'll get you the ruling.

[NeroMD]

K Genesis and funky, If you have any suggestions regarding about this issue then go for it. Me Dave and Belts will have your answers by tomorrow but having your idea's will be nice.

[K´Genesis]

Well, the "one-time usage" method of the other branches is fail-proof and understandable. The finals could have the same demand, instead of two-times usage.
You could force the players to play their main characters on the first round too, but I don´t like that idea myself.

[NeroMD]

Well the point is that you're representing your character that your good with. You can simply say "I represent Cloud" and use Gabranth all the time. See where i'm getting at?

[funkyman02]

Abusable was the wrong word to use. Actually the case with the Cloud that I fought was really odd since the EXG seemed to last forever (like a good 2 seconds after the he Ex'd). I'm just saying that when a match can get down to the nitty gitty and you're both hit away from the win, using EXG in such a way can turn the tides. It may not be countering in the normal sense, but it is still more or less countering since you are blocking to stagger so the hit gets through.

But like you said the replay will be evidence and if it is used in such a manner, that match may be overturned. It's just good to be aware of such things in the battles to come.

[K´Genesis]

I understand.
What I´m saying is that players can be forced to use their mains once per match during the course of the tourney and, in the finals, they could simply be forced to use their main once too.
If they are confident in their main or if the match-ups favor him, they´ll use him more than once anyway. If not, we can´t let an hypothetical situation like the one I demonstrated above happen.


And, on Funky´s matter, it really is a tough situation. Hard to happen, but skilled players can pull that off more often than not. Keyword: skill
But we should ponder on that.

[NeroMD]

I don't know though, Would you really Hit a Cloud player mid Meteor Rain instead of after animation?

[TWOxACROSS]

I've updated the rules (again, haha), this time adding the Battle Results template, and letting everyone know about the main character discussion.

As it stands now, if you want to get the title for your main if you win, you'll want to accrue as many wins as you can with that character.


But like you said the replay will be evidence and if it is used in such a manner, that match may be overturned. It's just good to be aware of such things in the battles to come.

Thank you for making me aware of this. It's never happened to me, so I didn't even think about it.

[K´Genesis]

Just to make it crystal-clear, I´d like to point out something else:

- No Equipment can be worn. You can wear accessories that increase non-statistical elements, like a Chocobo Feather or Mog’s Amulet, but nothing else

For the record, I know what this rule stands for, but some items, like for example, Phoenix Down/Pinion, do not fall into the category of statistical element(since it does not alter any stat at all).
It sounds paranoid, but some months hanging on GFaqs make you realize that the internet does not know about reasoning and common sense.

[Mikeee]

I want to commend you guys on greatly improving the rule set as compared to the proposition that was made just a few weeks ago.

There are still a few changes that I think could be made, but altogether this set looks pretty good. I know Rey, Kraid, and Myself have been tinkering with some different rulesets to be used in tournaments. This one will be nice for a comparison, and this rule set is definitely looking pretty nice. I look forward to the results in helping us try and come up with an even better one later. Great first tournament, and nice job on all the work you've put in! :)

[TWOxACROSS]

Just to make it crystal-clear, I´d like to point out something else:

- No Equipment can be worn. You can wear accessories that increase non-statistical elements, like a Chocobo Feather or Mog’s Amulet, but nothing else

For the record, I know what this rule stands for, but some items, like for example, Phoenix Down/Pinion, do not fall into the category of statistical element(since it does not alter any stat at all).
It sounds paranoid, but some months hanging on GFaqs make you realize that the internet does not know about reasoning and common sense.

Aw fuck. Haha, yeah, of course people will try to use ignorance, I just was hoping that us here on DF weren't as 'tarded as the GameFAQS crowd.

Fixed! Thanks, Genesis!

[Rey Magnus]

Better than before, but things can still be better.

[TWOxACROSS]

Better than before, but things can still be better.

Please refrain from saying things like "can still be better." It's a rather subjective.

[Mikeee]

Well, I think it's fair to say. As long as we're improving, we might as well strive for perfection. Obviously in the first attempt there are things that need to be tested. It's fair to say that any ruleset, even the ones we're coming up with, could be much better.

[Rey Magnus]

Please refrain from saying things like "can still be better." It's a rather subjective.

I'm sorry? Nero and Ghurdrich know what I'm talking about, so I really don't need to explain much.

[Ghurdrich]

Well, I'm going to have to side with Belts on this one. It's good that you're not putting up a huge fuss about it, even though you probably disagree (last time that happened was a disaster), but at the same time, just saying it could be better is pointless. Instead, you should wait until after the tournament is finished, see how it ends up panning out, and criticize later, when it will be possible to change things like you want to.

[Rey Magnus]

I see what you're saying, but it doesn't mean I can't say anything.

What I'm saying is it's better than before and you guys are doing a decent job improving it, but that doesn't mean it can't improved even more.

For what it is, there's no major complains.

[Dave880]

Well after talking to Nero, "- No Extra Ability Swapping is allowed between matches. So if you have 'Disable Counterattack' on, you cannot swap it out for 'Disable Sneak Attack' is going to be taken out. EX cancel is also allow but Belts forgot to add it lol.

[Flan]

ruleset looks good! I approve.

[Suppi]

Hmm... a few questions concerning EX Guard/Counter
1: Squall uses Aerial Circle > Sephiroth does Sudden Cruelty > EX Guard > Sephiroth gets hit by Aerial Circle *Is this considered a counter or walking into the attack?*
2: What happens if it was an accident on impulse after EX guard. Can we work out a mulligan?

[funkyman02]

One final question. Say we break one of these rules such as accidentally countering after an attack or accidentally hitting the square button when in Ex Mode and going into an unwanted Ex Burst. Is it fine to just forfeit the battle and start the match again or must we proceed and accept our automatic loss?

[Rey Magnus]

One final question. Say we break one of these rules such as accidentally countering after an attack or accidentally hitting the square button when in Ex Mode and going into an unwanted Ex Burst. Is it fine to just forfeit the battle and start the match again or must we proceed and accept our automatic loss?

From what I heard, apparently it's up to your opponent to say if it was an accident and you can restart or you get DQ'd.

Which, I'm sorry, I think is pretty stupid. But I'm sure they changed that.

[Mikeee]

One final question. Say we break one of these rules such as accidentally countering after an attack or accidentally hitting the square button when in Ex Mode and going into an unwanted Ex Burst. Is it fine to just forfeit the battle and start the match again or must we proceed and accept our automatic loss?

I've heard that they are still discussing this. Honestly, the problem you describe is kind of why I personally thought it would be best to allow Ex Burst in the first tourney and then see if it seemed to impact the results. But the way it is now is fine, but yeah some clarification on this would be nice.

[TWOxACROSS]

One final question. Say we break one of these rules such as accidentally countering after an attack or accidentally hitting the square button when in Ex Mode and going into an unwanted Ex Burst. Is it fine to just forfeit the battle and start the match again or must we proceed and accept our automatic loss?

I will say that if you and the opponent can agree on a mulligan, then sure. However, please try your hardest to refrain from making such mistakes. Try some practice runs (even against 9/9 AI) with these rules in mind, just so in the heat of the fray, you can still keep your wits about you and not "accidentally" do something.

The biggest problem is if you were fighting someone, and mopping the floor with them, only to have them "accidentally" do something they should of, and request a do-over. It's possible that a sore loser could use this to give themselves a second chance by nullifying the entire fight.

So, mulligan is optional, if you can agree to it. But, let's play honorably, and make sure things like this don't accidentally happen.

[funkyman02]

Well I would trust the users on this board to uphold some sense of dignity but I for one am definitely somewhat guilty for mashing that square button a bit too much in Ex leading to an unintentional burst. And since you stated it was up to the opponent, I would think that if you are using the burst to get out of a lost battle then the opponent would catch on and lean toward the DQ.

[Weiss_Hikari]

The only real problem I have is burst when playing as Shantotto. xD

hp combo... DAMN IT!. >.<

[TWOxACROSS]

The only real problem I have is burst when playing as Shantotto. xD

hp combo... DAMN IT!. >.<

Understandable for her, I'll agree, but you only need to press the button twice more to activate the chain of the full three-hit combo. Once the third HP attack is launched, just stop jamming the button.

I can understand this might be difficult for some, but just keep calm, and remember that you only need the one button press to launch an HP attack.

@Supii - I refer you to a post a little earlier in the thread. Actions to be taken in instances such as that can be found there.

[funkyman02]

Understandable for her, I'll agree, but you only need to press the button twice more to activate the chain of the full three-hit combo. Once the third HP attack is launched, just stop jamming the button.

Well Shantotto is a a really special case because sometimes no matter how much you mash the square button to get the HP linking to activate, there will be those times when you use the first attack and that does the HP damage but the second attack in the HP linking comes out. It's quite bizarre, IMO.

[Rey Magnus]

Well I would trust the users on this board to uphold some sense of dignity but I for one am definitely somewhat guilty for mashing that square button a bit too much in Ex leading to an unintentional burst. And since you stated it was up to the opponent, I would think that if you are using the burst to get out of a lost battle then the opponent would catch on and lean toward the DQ.

You don't need to mash it.

Emperor has Flare.. cast a Red Flare.. oh shiiiiiit, he got hit by the first Flare before I clicked Square!

Stuff like that can happen and I don't think a player should be punished for it.

[funkyman02]

You don't need to mash it.

Emperor has Flare.. cast a Red Flare.. oh shiiiiiit, he got hit by the first Flare before I clicked Square!

Stuff like that can happen and I don't think a player should be punished for it.

I know you don't need to mash it but I was just stating that I have been guilty of it. "Stuff like that" can also be used when a person is losing just to get out of his/her loss. I see where Belts is coming from with this. Also you're not really being punished per se since the opponent can easily just uphold a certain level of dignity and see that the burst was unintentional and redo the match.

This tourney is to have fun. I'd hope everyone can see that.

I propose that we have a new sub rule when there is a burst. I say that both players halt mid-match and discuss whether or not to redo it to avoid any untimely DQs.

[icyie04]

I agree, people make mistakes.

Hell, if a person forgets to remove EXP to HP and they notice it early game they should just redo the match.

[Nexus_Nocturnal]

Honestly, if you are clearly winning and your opponent "accidentally" does an EX Burst or something like that and requests a do over, just say no and take the win. It would be quite obvious who was going to be the winner by watching the replay, just think of it as winning faster.

[Rey Magnus]

Honestly, if you are clearly winning and your opponent "accidentally" does an EX Burst or something like that and requests a do over, just say no and take the win. It would be quite obvious who was going to be the winner by watching the replay, just think of it as winning faster.

What if the EX Burst resulted into a win?

[icyie04]

Of course If you're winning, have doubts if the opponent "Accidentally" activates EX burst. You'll know when it's an accident :P

[Nexus_Nocturnal]

What if the EX Burst resulted into a win?

Ex Bursting is illegal any way unless the other person's HP is 0, so they would be DQ'd any way. If they ask for a do over, say no, as you were clearly winning and they just did it for a second chance.

What happens though if, say for example, Emperor Ex Guards and one of his Flares that was just floating by hits the enemy while they are in stun? Or if one of Ultimecia's Floating Arrows hits them, or if Kuja tries to jump away and his automatic magic accidentally hits the other person, or Shantotto's Bio she casted a while ago hits?

[TWOxACROSS]

What if the EX Burst resulted into a win?

Ex Bursting is illegal any way unless the other person's HP is 0, so they would be DQ'd any way. If they ask for a do over, say no, as you were clearly winning and they just did it for a second chance.

What happens though if, say for example, Emperor Ex Guards and one of his Flares that was just floating by hits the enemy while they are in stun? Or if one of Ultimecia's Floating Arrows hits them, or if Kuja tries to jump away and his automatic magic accidentally hits the other person, or Shantotto's Bio she casted a while ago hits?

Those instances you state all fall under a circumstance I posted on earlier in this thread. If it's an attack that's already out before you Ex-Guard, you can't really do anything about it. Kuja would be something to watch out for, though.

I'm also decreeing here that you are no longer disqualified, but the battle counts as a loss for you if a mulligan cannot be agreed upon. A disqualification could be in place if it keeps happening though, so be careful!

[Flan]

I think people need to be resonable. Everyone is guilty up messing up every now and then so if they do so and its pretty early in the game, just redo it. Don't be a jerk, both players want to come out of the set with a sense that they tried their best and have no regrets about the set. Winning on a defect is a cheaply earned win.

[TWOxACROSS]

I think people need to be resonable. Everyone is guilty up messing up every now and then so if they do so and its pretty early in the game, just redo it. Don't be a jerk, both players want to come out of the set with a sense that they tried their best and have no regrets about the set. Winning on a defect is a cheaply earned win.

My biggest problem is that people are here talking about how they mess up by jamming buttons, or countering after Ex-Guarding, instead of playing some practice rounds to get use to NOT doing them. It's the best thing you can do to get in the groove for the rules, so that if an instance arises where you could possibly make that mistake, you're thinking clearly enough to remember "Oop! Can't do that! Do something else, instead."

[Ghurdrich]

My biggest problem is that people are here talking about how they mess up by jamming buttons, or countering after Ex-Guarding, instead of playing some practice rounds to get use to NOT doing them. It's the best thing you can do to get in the groove for the rules, so that if an instance arises where you could possibly make that mistake, you're thinking clearly enough to remember "Oop! Can't do that! Do something else, instead."

^This. If you can't be bothered to force yourself out of a habit, then why should you get the same merits as someone who went through the time to get rid of that reaction? Yes, I agree that everyone makes mistakes, but you can't just pass it off as "Oh, sorry, I mashed buttons. I wasn't paying attention. Redo." At least not in tournaments. These aren't exhibition matches (Although we do want to have fun).
I also think that the rules are this strict so that people who want to take advantage of them end up at a disadvantage instead. If two competent, and sportsmanlike players decide that one of their bursts is just a one time thing, then sure, why not have a redo? But this is here so that the people who would abuse that rule get their comeuppance.

[S84 PATCH]

Aw fuck. Haha, yeah, of course people will try to use ignorance, I just was hoping that us here on DF weren't as 'tarded as the GameFAQS crowd.

Fixed! Thanks, Genesis!

That's a low blow, man :(. I'm from GameFAQs and that's where I met awesome people like Nero, Nexus_Nocturnal, and this board in general. Please refrain from grouping everyone in the same crowd (I do realize that some people from GFAQs are more desperate for attention then others but still). My post hopefully does not cause any offense to anyone.

Anyway...
I can't wait for this tournament :D!

[NeroMD]

That's a low blow, man :(. I'm from GameFAQs and that's where I met awesome people like Nero, Nexus_Nocturnal, and this board in general. Please refrain from grouping everyone in the same crowd (I do realize that some people from GFAQs are more desperate for attention then others but still). My post hopefully does not cause any offense to anyone.

Anyway...
I can't wait for this tournament :D!

GameFaqs was decent till the US demo came out then it went to hell in my opinion.

[Blue Mage Danny]

That's a low blow, man :(. I'm from GameFAQs and that's where I met awesome people like Nero, Nexus_Nocturnal, and this board in general. Please refrain from grouping everyone in the same crowd (I do realize that some people from GFAQs are more desperate for attention then others but still). My post hopefully does not cause any offense to anyone.

Anyway...
I can't wait for this tournament :D!

Yes, there are many sensible members, like Frionel20 and so on
But in my time there, under the alias Paladin Danny (Dark Paladin Danny didn't fit ¬¬) I saw such stupidity in many places I just felt exhausted being there
I was there to get all the Dissidia info I could and it was useful indeed, but you had to sift through immense loads of stupidity, spam and flamings to get to the info




Also I have had many an issue with Emperor of trying to fire off an Arial Flare to which the earlier Ground Flare hits, thus sending me into Ex-Burst

And even more so with Kefka, when using a Trine, thinking it missed, trying to use a second and just as I attempt the first one hits

Due to these sort of problems may I suggest Ex-Bursts are legal, however they must be uncharged, thus removing accidental disqualification but also meaning the damage dealt is reasonable?

[K´Genesis]

That's a low blow, man :(. I'm from GameFAQs and that's where I met awesome people like Nero, Nexus_Nocturnal, and this board in general. Please refrain from grouping everyone in the same crowd (I do realize that some people from GFAQs are more desperate for attention then others but still). My post hopefully does not cause any offense to anyone.

Indeed. There are some very nice people there. But, at least, 60% of the entire board(even those who were there during the JP phase) is just passable, if not worse...

[TWOxACROSS]

That's a low blow, man :(. I'm from GameFAQs and that's where I met awesome people like Nero, Nexus_Nocturnal, and this board in general. Please refrain from grouping everyone in the same crowd (I do realize that some people from GFAQs are more desperate for attention then others but still). My post hopefully does not cause any offense to anyone.

I understand that, but I came from GameFAQs too (That's how I met Nero as well), a lot of us did, actually. However, those of us with sense in their heads who put up with that horrid BBS aren't lumped into any same group as the "dumb" ones I mention. You can't deny that GameFAQs is overrun with trolls, thread-jackers, and just plain stupidity. I'm glad Nero got me here on DF, because I was quickly losing patience at GameFAQs, I was tired of asking a question and getting retarded comments in return.

Anyway, don't take offense to it, but I apologize none the less. Although, even you can agree that this place is a helluva lot better than GameFAQs' Dissidia Board could ever hope to be.

[Kraid]

Also I have had many an issue with Emperor of trying to fire off an Arial Flare to which the earlier Ground Flare hits, thus sending me into Ex-Burst

And even more so with Kefka, when using a Trine, thinking it missed, trying to use a second and just as I attempt the first one hits

Due to these sort of problems may I suggest Ex-Bursts are legal, however they must be uncharged, thus removing accidental disqualification but also meaning the damage dealt is reasonable?


The first two problems I suffer from all the time, and I shouldn't be punished for playing a character how they should be played =P

The making EX-Bursts legal but 'uncharged' is not a good idea. Some characters do more damage than others with an 'uncharged' Ex-Burst. Some do an insane amount of damage to also. One character may end up doing 600 damage, another may do 1200 damage. And is that fair?

Not really.

[S84 PATCH]

Yeah, this board is full of much more nice and serious people. I was just saying, since I doubt you were one of those people. Overall, this board is better by far!

[PKNintendo]

That is a really good ruleset Belts.

I don't know about accessories. So ALL OF THEM are banned? Except the experience boosters? But they do nothing. (Everyone is lvl 100 remember?)

Why not just ban them period?

[TWOxACROSS]

That is a really good ruleset Belts.

I don't know about accessories. So ALL OF THEM are banned? Except the experience boosters? But they do nothing. (Everyone is lvl 100 remember?)

Why not just ban them period?

Well, there are certain accessories that can increase your Battlegen and Item Drop rates, as well as ones that get you more AP, PP, and Gil. Those are okay because they do nothing to amplify the actual character, just their rewards.

As far as that though, it's best to just not equip anything at all.

PS - Thank you for the kind words

[Kraid]

Experience boosters would be mega-banned. They give more bonus to EXP to X. Sure EXP to X is banned, but one day it may not.

[gregor]

So it looks like i finally found the "tournament rules". looks pretty good, i like the "ex counter" rules, sorta makes EX mode more of a "combo breaker with buffs" than a "free combo starter". cant wait to start playing some of you guys.

an explanation as to why EX bursts are banned would be nice, im not complaining or anything im just a noob to the game trying to learn the ins and outs, so bear with me.

[NeroMD]

There's a video in the online discussion "Why EX burst is overrated"

[Nexus_Nocturnal]

You all know how I feel about EX Bursts >.> <.<

[funkyman02]

You all know how I feel about EX Bursts >.> <.<

I don't... Wait you're against them iirc?

[Suppi]

So do we have to use our Representative character against everyone we use *IE: use them at least once in every 3 matches against someone*

[TWOxACROSS]

So do we have to use our Representative character against everyone we use *IE: use them at least once in every 3 matches against someone*

You don't have to, but if you were to win a spot on the tournament's Big 3 or the Oxymora, you'd acquire a title for the character that got you the most of your wins. This is more of an incentive to try to win as many matches as you can with your main, only subbing in your reinforcements when you know your main might not cut it.

[Suppi]

You don't have to, but if you were to win a spot on the tournament's Big 3 or the Oxymora, you'd acquire a title for the character that got you the most of your wins. This is more of an incentive to try to win as many matches as you can with your main, only subbing in your reinforcements when you know your main might not cut it.

Cool :3 I only chose Seph because I didn't want to put Squall as my rep... Who knows who I will use the most :3 I don't even know.


One last thing! Since people have been wondering about it, if you launch an attack...let's say...Emperor's Flare, and you Ex-Guard to stagger the opponent, and the Flare creeps up and hits them while they are still staggering, that's perfectly fine. I like to refer to those as "Lucky Shots." In such an instant, just be aware of your opponent's Ex-Level and what's happening on the field.

In this case... What happens when Squall uses aerial circle and Cloud decides to cross slash *what ever the double slash is called* and you ex block him. That's the same concept as the flare right?

[superangelo128]

Question:

So the winner ONLY has to submit the replay of the last match of the set to the e-mail?

[Dave880]

Yea, the winner must convert then send the replay to that E-mail Belts provided.

[Suppi]

Yea, the winner must convert then send the replay to that E-mail Belts provided.

eww... can't we just send the data *non converted*? or is that not possible.

[Dave880]

The thing is in the first round there will be at least 32 winning videos being sent. I will try my best to try to upload each one before the next round but I would encourage you guys to convert it to save me the trouble =p.

[Suppi]

The thing is in the first round there will be at least 32 winning videos being sent. I will try my best to try to upload each one before the next round but I would encourage you guys to convert it to save me the trouble =p.

Eww posting 16 2/3 battles a pop... GL with that man... Thought you were just going to take our word saying who won/who lost and have the replays just to check on psp. I guess I could convert....

[Dave880]

Opps I meant posting the winning video of each round. I would die if I had to post all 2/3 set matches @@.

[Suppi]

Opps I meant posting the winning video of each round. I would die if I had to post all 2/3 set matches @@.

Do it do it.

[WhiteHowl]

Okay I have a question. Do we have to use our Rep'ed character in each round?

[Suppi]

Okay I have a question. Do we have to use our Rep'ed character in each round?

I already told you No but I'll let someone else answer that for you.

[xffixbmlx]

Have any of these rules been...err..."tested?" O.o Some seem a little ridiculous, like the EX Counter rule...

[Ghurdrich]

Have any of these rules been...err..."tested?" O.o Some seem a little ridiculous, like the EX Counter rule...

A lot of us play by these rules by default, so yes, they've been tested.

[NeroMD]

Look at my video's, You'll see how it turned out.

[K´Genesis]

eww... can't we just send the data *non converted*? or is that not possible.

If this is possible, let me know how.
I can´t convert any replay at all, so that´ll pose a problem for me.
I´ll have to trust on my opponent to save and show the replays when needed.

[xffixbmlx]

Rules are usually set through tourney results that revolve specifically around particular meaning, not through casual play, discussion, one's feelings, etc. For example, if infinites were to be officially "broken" (which they commonly are, anyway), a tourney that revolves JUST around that (and any other rules applied from previous tourneys) would sincerely demonstrate whether or not such technique is actually broken based on how often, and/or how effortless, it was used. That's just my feelings (and many others) on how rules should be established. Your rules is how you guys do it, so I would rather not make this a big deal.

[NeroMD]

We've had a long discussion regarding EX burst and EX counter. The game mechanics is made to be played with equipment. not without, EX counter + Burst usually means instant kill.

[Ghurdrich]

Well, you're looking for This thread (http://dissidiaforums.com/showthread.php?t=784) if you want to express ideas for upcoming tournaments on a "Competitive" basis. This tournament was specifically laid out as just sort of a practice run/for fun thing, and we've taken a lot of slag for it. But yeah, go there and feel free to discuss.

[xffixbmlx]

I understand. However, discussion outcomes are not credited as much as tourney outcomes would be. Take Tier Lists, for example; you don't base that on casualties - you base it simply on results (typically frame rate and match-ups), like Smash Bros. Rules apply the same concept. Personally, EX Bursts are debatable, since it requires little or no effort in free damage, but some may say that helps with damage in sticky situations. EX Counters are not a bad thing. Experienced players (who are assumed "skilled") would know better not to recklessly attack (your video is a great example), knowing that their opponent will just counter with ease. Instead, he/she may stall until his/hers' EX Gauge is filled to counter his/hers' counter, or trick him/her into a quick HP succession, like Free Energy or Meltdown. It's a simple mind game technique.

Gotcha, Ghurdrich. Thanks.

[NeroMD]

Which is stalling, When it comes to without equips the stalling game will decrease greatly. It's already bad enough to fight turtle players in this game who don't attack till you do something and then go for an EX core.

The rules were made for fun as Ghurdrich said. The next tourney will have equipment as a "basic start up".

[Weiss_Hikari]

Erm I think it'd be nice for the next tourney to start with Accessories rather than equips.

[Nexus_Nocturnal]

Everything or nothing.

[funkyman02]

Unless all accessories and equipment are universal across the entire tourney, then some people will have an unfair advantage.

[Nexus_Nocturnal]

If you can get to ad hoc you have a PS3. If you have a PS3 you have a USB cord to charge your controller. If you have a USB cord you can connect it to your PSP and computer. If you can connect to the computer you can download a save with all equipments and accessories.

There is no reason why any one in the tournament doesn't have all possible equips, summons, and accessories or the means to get them in a very short period of time.

[Ghurdrich]

...Maybe some people don't want to download a save file with everything already unlocked...? Just a thought?

[Nexus_Nocturnal]

You can back up your save on your computer and use the save with everything unlocked for the tourny only. That's what I am going to do. I still want to 100% the game myself.

[funkyman02]

I don't care if you can download everything or not. If you have different set ups with accessories and equipment, the matches have an increased probability to become unfair.

[Nexus_Nocturnal]

Just the chances you are going to have to take. There is no one perfect equipment set up. There are going to be multiple rounds, possible best out of 3 or 4 or 5. See what kind of gear your opponent uses in one round and tweak yours to counter him in the later rounds. If you really want to make sure you don't get screwed over by an one hit kill set up with +1000000% BRV or what ever, bring a Phoenix Down and Phoenix pinion and a summon to lock your BRV at a high level. I have no sympathy for people that go "Yeah well, I like my equipment set up and refuse to change it, so its not fair his is better". You either adapt to the situation, or you die. And plus the whole skill factor still plays a big part. What good is your opponents equipment going to do if he can't even touch you?

[funkyman02]

Just the chances you are going to have to take. There is no one perfect equipment set up. There are going to be multiple rounds, possible best out of 3 or 4 or 5. See what kind of gear your opponent uses in one round and tweak yours to counter him in the later rounds. If you really want to make sure you don't get screwed over by an one hit kill set up with +1000000% BRV or what ever, bring a Phoenix Down and Phoenix pinion and a summon to lock your BRV at a high level. I have no sympathy for people that go "Yeah well, I like my equipment set up and refuse to change it, so its not fair his is better". You either adapt to the situation, or you die. And plus the whole skill factor still plays a big part. What good is your opponents equipment going to do if he can't even touch you?

But we'll still have Ex Builds where you get full Ex Bars by the second. Ex Builds are the bane of DFF, imo. Tourneys are supposed to be fair matches deciding who has the greater skill within battle to come out on top. I know I'm repeating my self for the umpteenth time but when you start adding new elements that change the stats of characters, then you have a higher chance for the results to be skewed.

[Nexus_Nocturnal]

With the high EX gain they are officially screwing themselves over in the EXG department. Equip what ever ACCs you like, plus a phoenix down just in case, and an ACC with 100% EX. If they have to EXG first they have to wait a painfully long time till they can EX Guard again because their EX bar just fills up too damn fast, while yours on the other hand fills normally, and with the right planning with EX Core absorption you can gain 100% EX off cores so you can EX guard again faster but keep the EX Force low so you are not constantly in EX because of EX Force. Plus you can always super buff your defense with armor and accessories and use summons like Phoenix and Demon Wall so the damage becomes laughable at best.

[funkyman02]

Summons too? Jesus Christ that would be a horrible tourney.

[Nexus_Nocturnal]

How would we know? No one has ever tested this shit out >.>. It is actually quite balanced and easy to counter a bunch of this stuff people think is "broken" but no one ever dares to dive into Dissidia's deeper parts.

All people ever do is look right away at some one with infinite EX or some one with Magic Pot and automatically think "HOLY SHIT DAT IS BROKEN I NO WANT TO FIGHT THEM THEY CHEAT"

I would compare this to how people in BB will duck with Tao and just keep poking and lulz at noobs that try to walk closer to her and keep taking damage.

But then there are the people that know how to use over head moves that go above the poke and smash Tao's face in. These are the people that think "lulz full ex? He is never gonna be able to EX Guard, and all those EX Accessories and Equips he used leave his Attack and Defense pathetically low compared to my set up... LOL is that magic pot? Say hello to Lich!"

[Flan]

How would we know? No one has ever tested this shit out >.>. It is actually quite balanced and easy to counter a bunch of this stuff people think is "broken" but no one ever dares to dive into Dissidia's deeper parts.

All people ever do is look right away at some one with infinite EX or some one with Magic Pot and automatically think "HOLY SHIT DAT IS BROKEN I NO WANT TO FIGHT THEM THEY CHEAT"

I would compare this to how people in BB will duck with Tao and just keep poking and lulz at noobs that try to walk closer to her and keep taking damage.

But then there are the people that know how to use over head moves that go above the poke and smash Tao's face in. These are the people that think "lulz full ex? He is never gonna be able to EX Guard, and all those EX Accessories and Equips he used leave his Attack and Defense pathetically low compared to my set up... LOL is that magic pot? Say hello to Lich!"

Dude, why don't you and someone here try this online then. Don't just test something out in a tournament first to find out how cheap it is, screwing everyone over. Test out all equipment, accessories, summon and such to see if your claims are justified.

And Magic Pot is broken. Its a summon that rewards you for letting your opponent kick the crap out of you. I'd rather take some form of Judgement over any of that shit.

[Nexus_Nocturnal]

I have fought equipment matches over online. I fought a Squall with Full EX and Magic Pot and still kicked his ass. You guys act like half the summons don't exist, damn. Lich, Deathgaze, Iron Giant, Asura, any of these can make Magic Pot utterly useless. Yeah, Magic Pot is sooooo broken, my opponent uses it and my summon makes his BRV 0.

But that is not the point. When things become banned or limited or when tiers are made it wasn't because 1 guy went and tested it out with a friend. No, a group of people gathered data from a tournament and agreed that this shouldn't be allowed or this is better over that.

[Rei-N]

Correction: certain things aren't always tested in tournaments to be found broken. A group of people who do extensive testing or perform a proper experiment can produce the same results, aka Team SSR and ANBU. Though I do agree, all summons and s*** need to be majorly tested to see what TRULY breaks the game and what falls in the "bleh, stop complaining" category.

And besides, EX Builds are pretty weaksauce by itself. What makes it so powerful is when it becomes a hybrid to other themes, such as Cloud OHKO or Squall BRV build. Which is probably what we're gonna need to be testing, since I love to compare Dissidia Equips to Pokemon after all ;P

Oh, and skill isn't as important in equips battles. A well built EX hybrid + mediocre player is roughly equivalent to subpar build + expert player. That's how ridiculous certain formats are, but we won't know for sure until heavy testing is done.

And people, puleeze SHADDUP with the hate on this tournament. What this will also bring is an insight on the EX counter rule, how no EX-bursts affects this scene, as well as some other juicy information that can be further developed into a proper Dissidia Neo Rule format. Stop complaining and get ready to fight. You wanna prove rules like these are bulls***? Then show the exploits of them, so it can be taken into consideration for next round.

[sparkaura]

Sucks so much that I cant enter i really need a human player to fight against but i have no ps3 or xlink darn.

[Dave880]

People truly need to stop hating on this Tournament. It is really getting ridiculous so please take your suggestions or comments onto another topic.

[Flan]

Honestly, I'm loving the ruleset of this tournament! Its just the type I would use. I dunno about the Ex-Guarding turned off but other than that, its great. Equips are fail and this maxes player skill potential to be ranked.

Also, if you don't want people to discuss the rules, you should lock this thread. Everyone else is going to keep hating as much as they want and its pure thread hijacking 101.