Exdeath General Discussion

[Kotei]

I am surprised that Exdeath hasn't a discussion yet. The problem is fixed now. He got a lot of buffs which make him better in many ways. Counters are a lot harder to escape, some attacks can be canceled into guards, making him very dangerous. Maelstrom is another attack which add more mind game to Exdeath, forcing the opponent to turn agressive. Exdeath can now manipulate his opponents, slowly making them do what he desires, and then crush their hopes.

Assists seem dangerous to his game, however, and it will be something that will force him to be even more careful about his situation. On Exdeath's side, Assist is more likely to be used as a bait to make the opponent react, than a pure combo maker. I like Exdeath even more now, because his buffs make him a lot smarter, allowing him to use more strategies. And he will need it.



+Swords Dance staggers on block
+Hurricane seems faster
+Attacks after guards are VERY fast
+Black Hole has high absorb property
+High guard turns to face opponent
+Almagest has Magic Block
-High Guard blocks less things now
-Increased cooldown on High Guard
+ Omni Block has a lot of additionnal guard frames
+Reverse Polarity cancelable into BRV and HP attacks
+Maelstrom has infinite range, can move while casting
-Moves slowly during the cast however
-Long casting time
+ Every non guard attack is cancelable into a guard (except Delta attack and Black Hole)
-Delta Attack does not track like before

[Weiss_Hikari]

I wanna seem some gameplay of Maelstrom and his guard cancels.
I also which to see which moves can't be High Guarded any longer.

[Northy]

I too would like to see some gameplay. Too bad everyone's so excited about the new characters they've totally forgotten the old ones..

[Kotei]

Your wish is fulfilled. Here is a video showing Exdeath using Maelstrom very effectively, it's a staple for his playstyle and not just a cool looking attack.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX3z7ouP524

An epic fight. It made me change my mind about his 3rd alt, he's really awesome with that one. He will surely take a bigger place among my mains.

[Kotei]

I doubled post thanks to the huge lag. The server is now slower than Exdeath, urgh...

[Bennieboyy]

Er.......

I like your video, but you don't have to post it ...... three times XD

EDIT: Ninja'd by lag

[Weiss_Hikari]

Yay! Exdeath is such a beast.

[Kotei]

If anyone wonders, Maelstrom takes 7.6 seconds in order to be cast into the opponent's face.Even when the animation of the Tornado appears (1 second before release), you can still stop Exdeath from blowing you away. It got a nice buff, since in Prologus it took 10 painful seconds to charge:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvRT_0wmBJk

Emperor players are jealous.

[Northy]

Thanks Kotei. How is Ex-Death's Reverse Polarity now? Can you travel infinite distance with it? If you can, why not try a big stage like The Rift and teleporting far away from your opponent and start casting Maelstrom?

[Hende]

^

Well, it's actually not safe to do that unless they're going after Ex-Cores.

But it doesn't matter if you can counter well anyway.

[Kotei]

Thanks Kotei. How is Ex-Death's Reverse Polarity now? Can you travel infinite distance with it? If you can, why not try a big stage like The Rift and teleporting far away from your opponent and start casting Maelstrom?

No, Reverse Polarity hasn't changed from US Dissidia. It's still a very good tool for mindgame, but it's better for pressuring the opponent than for going away from him. You can't really know where you will teleport, it's random because the sigil moves in the opponent's direction but bounces against objects. And it's not moving forever.

Now you have other tools for pressuring and mindgame, which are Almagest, Maelstrom, Hurricane and Grand Cross.You can cancel any of these attacks into any guard you have. I like the fact that now his gameplay is a lot more interesting than before, because Reverse Polarity was his sole agressive tool (with Black Hole occasionaly). Now you can make the opponent think you are open: "Hey! I'm using Almagest! Go punish me! Oh sorry, I just canceled it into Omni Guard, and you're dead now". Now you can make a fool of all your opponents, and that's quite amusing indeed.

To put it bluntly, Exdeath can now mindgame like hell. And Maelstrom is just EPIC.

[Weiss_Hikari]

Actually, I don't think teleporting across the stage is that big of a problem as long as you know how to position your self so that you can predict where the sigil will end up.

[Kotei]

You CAN'T predict it. Its direction depends first on the opponent's location, and as far as I know, you can't predict his location. It will bounce to walls so it's pretty much dead in almost every stage. It's best as a pressure tool. Using it as a mean of going away while it brings you near the opponent is a simple waste of time. You have much better things to do.

Anyways, I tested more accurately Exdeath's Maelstrom: 227 frames is the time needed for the spell to be cast, approximatively 7.6 seconds (First Frame: Blue screen showing up that the attack is used, Last Frame: First Brave hit):
-Frame 216: The animation of Maelstrom first appears under the opponent without hitting directly
-Frame 227: The Tornado strikes the opponent
-Frame 257: End of the animation, Exdeath doesn't immediately return to normal stance.

The main problem is that the time when the opponent is striked by the first brave hit is pretty random. I can't really when it will happen with accuracy. But it's a matter of milliseconds, I suppose.

I'm assuming 30 frames per second, do the maths, it's not that hard.

[Zero_Ruzai]

Long range counter (umm... vaccuum wave I believe it's called) connects everytime, the beast cancels-into-guards crap is beast, double guarding doesn't seem possible (sad), and the usefulness of regular attacks other than just as counters, are all way better from what I just saw. Can't wait... I know I've posted that in like 10 threads already.

[Weiss_Hikari]

You CAN'T predict it. Its direction depends first on the opponent's location, and as far as I know, you can't predict his location. It will bounce to walls so it's pretty much dead in almost every stage.

You don't need to predict your opponents location because you can see him? Its not that hard to have a set up where your opponent is dashing at you or in a straight line away. I'd agree it wouldn't work for most of the stages due to walls, but i'd wager it can definitely be done on a few like Rift or Order's Sanctuary or that Omega version of World of Darkness.

Is Maelstrom fewer frames than Starfall though? And does it have magic block as well Kotei?

[Zero_Ruzai]

Oh yeah, that RP discussion... I don't get it. You can predict... well actually, you KNOW where it will be because it's going in the direction where the opponent was when you first cast it. It's clearly the exact same in Duodecim as it was in Dissidia. And since you know where you opponent will be (you know... that big target on the screen, the one and only thing you're attacking), you will know where the sigil will end go towards. Now if you let it hit a wall, with enough experience, you can still guess where it'll be, however, most people will finish the teleportation before that happens. One funny thing I noticed is that you can probably use it to get to the top of the stage very quickly. This may not seem altogether significant, but since Duodecim is ground-based more than air-based, if you were to pop up to the top of the stage with RP and try Maelstrom from there, melee and magic users will have a helluva time reaching you before you cast it and without performing some easy-to-see-coming-so-you're-going-to-get-punished-anyway move.

[Bloodsword83]

As far as Reverse Polarity is concerned, it's best uses are as follows:

Pressure (With it staggering Guards and having a higher priority than even some HP attacks, it's nearly perfect.)
Assist Gauge building (Seriously, RP -> Dodge -> RP -> Dodge -> RP -> Dodge builds meter so fast it's criminal.)
GTFOing from a dangerous EX Mode (I'm looking directly at you, Cloud.)

As far as predicting how RP will move, it's important to remember the angle RP began moving at. RP will also burn itself out after approximately 40 seconds. It will disappear and you will return to a neutral stance.

On the subject of Maelstrom, I don't think it's particularly useful.

I wouldn't dispose of Delta Attack, Almagest, or Grand Cross because these are all far more useful.
A. Delta Attack lets you quickly make HP attacks from assist wall rushes.
B. Almagest blocks magic, can make HP hits off assists like Kuja, and can cancel into a guard.
C. Grand Cross is an amazing punish attack. It can punish the startup of many HP attacks, and it starts up quickly to boot. (By the way, you can NOT cancel Grand Cross into other attacks or guards.)

Meanwhile, on the Maelstrom Front...
A. Has a long charge time (7.6 seconds)
B. Is only useful while the opponent is far away or if you're in EX Revenge.
C. Lacks a Magic Block property (If it could block magic projectiles, then I would be more inclined to use it.)
D. It seems to be inescapable, which is a plus.
E. Can cancel into guards.

Overall, I wouldn't remove the utility of any of any of those HP attacks just for Maelstrom. I think it would have been better as an EX Mode HP Attack, like Goblin Punch with a 5 second cast.

TL;DR version: Exdeath has much better options for HP attacks than Maelstrom.

[Zero_Ruzai]

So what if your opponent decides to turtle?

Delta attack is incredibly easy to dodge. Not to mention punish.
Almagest.... it's not hard to dodge that, you don't necessarily have to attack so that's not a real pressure tool.
Grand Cross is punishing from afar. However, it too is extremely easy to dodge out of. And you don't necessarily have to counterattack it, meaning Exdeath can't guard>counter.

Maelstrom appears to be his only REAL pressure attack for when the opponent refuses to attack in fear of getting blocked. But that would only really be an issue online.

[BRKNglassIncarnate]

Lol. Now that Exdeath got some attack buffs I can actually use them XD

I know right now everyone is sort of on a RP discussion but what would moves would you recommend for Exdeath?

In the first game, all I had was Omni Block, High Guard, and RP (Both ground and air) so I pretty much sucked as Exdeath.

[Bloodsword83]

So what if your opponent decides to turtle?

Delta attack is incredibly easy to dodge. Not to mention punish.
Almagest.... it's not hard to dodge that, you don't necessarily have to attack so that's not a real pressure tool.
Grand Cross is punishing from afar. However, it too is extremely easy to dodge out of. And you don't necessarily have to counterattack it, meaning Exdeath can't guard>counter.

Maelstrom appears to be his only REAL pressure attack for when the opponent refuses to attack in fear of getting blocked. But that would only really be an issue online.

Please remember, I gave what I feel is the best situation to use Delta Attack in. Everything else is just asking to be punished.
As far as Almagest goes, I can make HP hits off awkward assists like Kuja. Almagest's magic block is also very good against mages. That adds pressure in the sense that "Oh crap, here comes a bus and I can shoot it stop it with Thunder!" And if they try to use a physical attack or a higher priority magical projectile, then you High Block/Omni Block.

And as for Grand Cross, it's important to pick and choose your battles. If you don't know if your opponent will have enough time to get out of GC, then it's best not to do it.

If they want to turtle, let them. I don't have a problem with it. I have Snooze and Loose to keep them aggressive. And if that isn't enough, then I'll use Concentration++. That tends to light a fire under most people.


Lol. Now that Exdeath got some attack buffs I can actually use them XD

I know right now everyone is sort of on a RP discussion but what would moves would you recommend for Exdeath?

In the first game, all I had was Omni Block, High Guard, and RP (Both ground and air) so I pretty much sucked as Exdeath.

That's what I play with now. But I would go ahead and remove the attacks on the ground. Exdeath needs to stay in the air and removing those attacks can open up 40-45 CP for another critical ability or something.

[BRKNglassIncarnate]

That's what I play with now. But I would go ahead and remove the attacks on the ground. Exdeath needs to stay in the air and removing those attacks can open up 40-45 CP for another critical ability or something.

But wouldn't you have at least some attacks on the ground? I mean, every once in a while Exdeath has to play aggressively right? At least just for the moment or something.

[Bloodsword83]

But wouldn't you have at least some attacks on the ground? I mean, every once in a while Exdeath has to play aggressively right? At least just for the moment or something.

If you want a Brave attack on the ground, I suggest Black Hole. It's absorb property has been way jacked up. But I would just stick to countering attacks and using assist off RP wall rush.

But personally, I don't have any brave attacks on the ground.

[Northy]

Hmm.. Well.. I guess i gotta play around once i get the game if no one else wants to try it out now. Of course you'd have to pick an aggressive character and not that lazy bastard Gabranth.

[Xirmant]

What I want to know is how late into Almagesr's animation can you cancel into a block?

[Kotei]

Oh yeah, that RP discussion... I don't get it. You can predict... well actually, you KNOW where it will be because it's going in the direction where the opponent was when you first cast it. It's clearly the exact same in Duodecim as it was in Dissidia. And since you know where you opponent will be (you know... that big target on the screen, the one and only thing you're attacking), you will know where the sigil will end go towards. Now if you let it hit a wall, with enough experience, you can still guess where it'll be, however, most people will finish the teleportation before that happens. One funny thing I noticed is that you can probably use it to get to the top of the stage very quickly. This may not seem altogether significant, but since Duodecim is ground-based more than air-based, if you were to pop up to the top of the stage with RP and try Maelstrom from there, melee and magic users will have a helluva time reaching you before you cast it and without performing some easy-to-see-coming-so-you're-going-to-get-punished-anyway move.

Using RP to go away from the ennemy is terribly wrong and will only annoy the opponent more, most of the time you will teleport randomly because the opponent will come to you, forcing you to teleport sooner. Also, due to the camera you don't have 360° vision, meaning that most of the time you won't even know where the sigil is. Trust me.OAD is alot better and easier to use in that department.







On the subject of Maelstrom, I don't think it's particularly useful.

I wouldn't dispose of Delta Attack, Almagest, or Grand Cross because these are all far more useful.
A. Delta Attack lets you quickly make HP attacks from assist wall rushes.
B. Almagest blocks magic, can make HP hits off assists like Kuja, and can cancel into a guard.
C. Grand Cross is an amazing punish attack. It can punish the startup of many HP attacks, and it starts up quickly to boot. (By the way, you can NOT cancel Grand Cross into other attacks or guards.)

Meanwhile, on the Maelstrom Front...
A. Has a long charge time (7.6 seconds)
B. Is only useful while the opponent is far away or if you're in EX Revenge.
C. Lacks a Magic Block property (If it could block magic projectiles, then I would be more inclined to use it.)
D. It seems to be inescapable, which is a plus.
E. Can cancel into guards.

Overall, I wouldn't remove the utility of any of any of those HP attacks just for Maelstrom. I think it would have been better as an EX Mode HP Attack, like Goblin Punch with a 5 second cast.

TL;DR version: Exdeath has much better options for HP attacks than Maelstrom.

This is wrong. Maelstrom is probably the best mindgame tool he got in Duodecim, it just put the other player in a dilemna "Eating a giant tornado or risking a counterattack?". Characters without safe attacks are dead if Exdeath use Maelstrom. Cloud, Jecht for example. Maelstrom is shorter than Starfall indeed, 1 second less. Maelstrom lacks a magic block effect, but it's not that long to charge and it's safe.

The only real bad thing for Maelstrom is that he moves so slow when casting that every zoning attack will catch him. But attacks like these ones leave the user open,and so, it can be easily punished by Grand Cross. It's really between Delta Attack and Almagest, and I just think that Delta Attack is not that good since it lost its original tracking and it's easily punished. So, for me, it's Grand Cross-Almagest-Maelstrom. Exdeath has never been good in making combos, it's useless to try assists like Kuja or Jecht.

[Xon]

Question, does the Reverse Polarity double guard... thing still work?

[Bloodsword83]

Using RP to go away from the ennemy is terribly wrong and will only annoy the opponent more, most of the time you will teleport randomly because the opponent will come to you, forcing you to teleport sooner. Also, due to the camera you don't have 360° vision, meaning that most of the time you won't even know where the sigil is. Trust me.OAD is alot better and easier to use in that department.

Wait, are you saying that annoying your opponent is a bad thing? When people are angry, they tend to make more mistakes. It's actually a boon for us if they're angry. And RPing to the top of the stage is an awesome idea. Good for wall rush combos.







This is wrong. Maelstrom is probably the best mindgame tool he got in Duodecim, it just put the other player in a dilemna "Eating a giant tornado or risking a counterattack?". Characters without safe attacks are dead if Exdeath use Maelstrom. Cloud, Jecht for example. Maelstrom is shorter than Starfall indeed, 1 second less. Maelstrom lacks a magic block effect, but it's not that long to charge and it's safe.

I disagree. Remember that the mindgames go both ways. What if your opponent dashes toward you and you whiff a guard? You'll be punished. Not only that, but you have to release Maelstrom and select the appropriate guard. It's very timing heavy on melee attacks and close range magic.


The only real bad thing for Maelstrom is that he moves so slow when casting that every zoning attack will catch him. But attacks like these ones leave the user open,and so, it can be easily punished by Grand Cross. It's really between Delta Attack and Almagest, and I just think that Delta Attack is not that good since it lost its original tracking and it's easily punished. So, for me, it's Grand Cross-Almagest-Maelstrom. Exdeath has never been good in making combos, it's useless to try assists like Kuja or Jecht.
But RP -> Wall Rush -> Kuja -> Almagest has never been so fun! Not to mention But RP -> Wall Rush -> Jecht -> Grand Cross!

---------- Post added at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------


Question, does the Reverse Polarity double guard... thing still work?

No,. unfortunately. :(

[Kotei]

Wait, are you saying that annoying your opponent is a bad thing? When people are angry, they tend to make more mistakes. It's actually a boon for us if they're angry. And RPing to the top of the stage is an awesome idea. Good for wall rush combos.

Wall rush combos are gone, except with the aid of assists. While saying it was annoying, I was just pointing it was useless. RP is a pressure tool and is very random for other tasks.



I disagree. Remember that the mindgames go both ways. What if your opponent dashes toward you and you whiff a guard? You'll be punished. Not only that, but you have to release Maelstrom and select the appropriate guard. It's very timing heavy on melee attacks and close range magic.
Maelstrom's cooldown is canceled into the guard. Except the 1 frame for startup, there is nothing really difficult in guarding attacks. Using Maelstrom cleverly will naturally force the opponent into making errors (because it's not that hard to pull off) making him predictable in his means of countering you. Assists can be used, but Exdeath will guard them easily. Maelstrom isn't an attack to spam, for sure, but if used right, it is an incredible mindgame tool.



But RP -> Wall Rush -> Kuja -> Almagest has never been so fun! Not to mention But RP -> Wall Rush -> Jecht -> Grand Cross!

I think supportive assists work better overall, like Firion and Shantotto, personnaly. It makes things easier instead of making situational combos.

[Zero_Ruzai]

But wouldn't you have at least some attacks on the ground? I mean, every once in a while Exdeath has to play aggressively right? At least just for the moment or something.

In Dissidia, the only BRV attack I had on the ground was Omni block, and that's really all I needed. Since my main method of staying airborne and aggressive simultaneously is RP; this worked great. Unfortunately, since double is gone now, it'll be harder to do this, but since there are other methods of drawing the opponents moves out, might as well learn them all.

Also on the note of double guard, even though it's removed, that doesn't mean all glitches/tricks are. Maybe something like omni>summon>high block= high block with priority of omni-block. This wouldn't actually work, but I'm just saying, things are yet to be discovered. Take Sephiroth in Dissidia for example. The game's been out 2 years, and not even 3 months ago, they discovered yet another trick to do with him and Cloud. So things like that will always be found

[Rebirthflames]

It looks like exdeath gained a guard property on Almagest. I remember when I would high block a holy (cast by terra) and I would have to block ALL of the holy spell in order to counter with Almagest because the rest of the holy spell would catch him and hit him. I was testing and I used Almagest QUICKLY after the first holy Ball was blocked and almgest the guarded the rest of the spell. This is great against mages or magic attacks as they have cooldowns at the end of spells and the ability to hp counter in the middle of one is pretty neat.

[Grade-Zero]

Exdeath's new Omni Block seems so ridiculous now along with his buffs. Seems as if anyone without a fast aerial attack can't hope to beat him...

[Rebirthflames]

It's times like these where I'm proud to
Be a... NEEDLE!

[Xirmant]

This may sound like a dumb question but does that Just Guard skill only work with standard block or can it also raise the priority of attacks with a block effect ie raise High Blk's priority?

[Grade-Zero]

I believe it only works on standard blocks, seeing as it doesn't work for Shield Bash.

[RoboDestroyer]

Robo uses Exdeath now.



On the subject of Maelstrom, I don't think it's particularly useful.

I wouldn't dispose of Delta Attack, Almagest, or Grand Cross because these are all far more useful. lolno
A. Delta Attack lets you quickly make HP attacks from assist wall rushes. Almagest/Grand Cross can do this with the right assist (I use Jecht)
B. Almagest blocks magic, can make HP hits off assists like Kuja, and can cancel into a guard. Correct
C. Grand Cross is an amazing punish attack. It can punish the startup of many HP attacks, and it starts up quickly to boot. (By the way, you can NOT cancel Grand Cross into other attacks or guards.) You can cancel the startup of this move with a guard/dodge but once the orbs start appearing you have to let it finish

Meanwhile, on the Maelstrom Front...
A. Has a long charge time (7.6 seconds) Its faster the Starfall.
B. Is only useful while the opponent is far away or if you're in EX Revenge. Um, isnt't the whole point of the move similar to Emperor's Starfall? It's to get your opponent to come to you because in DFF he would get turtled by characters. Now they have no choice but to rush him down to stop the attack.
C. Lacks a Magic Block property (If it could block magic projectiles, then I would be more inclined to use it.) Why does it need a Magic Guard property if it can cancel into guards?
D. It seems to be inescapable, which is a plus. Certain moves like Revolver Drive and Tornado can nullify the move completely. I'm not sure on Jecht Block/ Omni Guard
E. Can cancel into guards. You say this point but yet you dont have enough common sense to think of mindgames involving this move?

Overall, I wouldn't remove the utility of any of any of those HP attacks just for Maelstrom. I think it would have been better as an EX Mode HP Attack, like Goblin Punch with a 5 second cast.

TL;DR version: Exdeath has much better options for HP attacks than Maelstrom.

My TL;DR: Maelstrom is not meant to be used offensively, it's meant to get your opponent to come to you where they'll be in range of RP pressure and guards. Combine Maelstrom with SnL, assist draining, and a long assist (Jecht/Aerith) and you're opponent has a very scary move to deal with.

[Weiss_Hikari]

I totally agree Robo. Good to see you too. xD

[Kotei]

Ah, finally someone who got how to use Maelstrom. However, I am not sure about its priority at all, it really seems unblockable. Exdeath has been given more mindgame, why not use it?

[SawronZXZ]

After playing around a bit with him, it seems like his guards come out slower than in DFF (maybe it's just the start-up frame of omni), and as far as I could tell, Maelstrom couldn't be cancelled into a guard (at least not like Almagest, because you have to hold the button for Maelstrom to be active).

[RoboDestroyer]

Just let go of Maelstrom then press the button the guard is assigned to. You cant guard during the first few frames of the startup or right before the atack comes out. So if you don't think you'll be able to land it, stop. It's already done its job anyways, get your opponent close to you

[Bloodsword83]

I belive Maelstrom is Ranged High since nothing short of Revolver Drive or Rough Divide (Melee High) will go through it. You can also Omni Block it.

[Lord Shmeckie]

And here I was about to bust in here yelling "OH MY GOD MAELSTROM IS AMAZING SKEET SKEET SKEET," but it seems its amazingness is well-appreciated among folks here.

Seriously. It's like Christmas in March...! The biggest hurdle Exdeath had against human opponents just got curb-stomped.

I mean, yeah, he had to sacrifice High Block Turn Guard's priority to do it, but god dammit I can deal with it. Omni Block is still God in bubble form!

[Zero_Ruzai]

Why is everyone making a big deal with RP....?
I replaced it completely. Black Hole got an absorb buff that's so huge that the opponent can barely escape. This makes for an easy Almagest approach (an easy HP hit if they're caught in it, which they are A LOT) or a pressuring move (which sometimes forces them to attack... meaning guard>punish, and Exdeath always wins. Either way, RP has outlived its use and stops here in DDFF; Exdeath is not offensive, and why do you need a pressuring game with a close range RP when you have long range Black Hole and Maelstrom?)

Seriously, with a standard build assist build, I beat the 150k HP Feral Chaos on my first attempt (and all of you made a big commotion about it XD), and half the damage was done by Black Hole; it creates a barrier between you and the opponent, it's multi-hit, decent damage, can link into other attacks, and basically.... is so much win.

Pfft, and you people prefer RP... alright then ^^

[RoboDestroyer]

RP Uses:
-Amazing Pressure: Imo it keeps your opponent alot more pressured then Black Hole because its more of a guaranteed hit. Black Hole isn't really a threat unless you do moves with a long animation (doesn't Exdeath want these moves to come out so he can get easy blocks in?). Moves like Beat Fang/Swift Attack/anything fast wont even be affected by Black Hole.

-Combo purposes: I tend to stay up in the air with Exdeath, usually near the ceiling so I dont get camped in the air by characters. RP -> wallrush -> Jecht assist -> Maelstrom/Almagest. Hit confirming with RP is NOT a hard thing to do, and its a more reliable way to wallrush combo since Exdeath's only other way is to counter an attack. Did I mention he could also do RP -> guard stagger because they attacked/blocked -> assist?

-Low cooldown/startup: Need I say more? The active frame of the moves are near instant and if used correctly it's an extremely safe move to use and you can cancel it into another attack/guard for mindgames. Black Hole actually has a pretty long startup and he cant cancel it into a guard

-Building assist meter: Ok Exdeath has got to be one of the fastest/safest assist meter building characters. Just do RP -> DC -> RP -> DC -> repeat and get a full assist bar in no time at all. That's too slow for you? Try RP -> DC -> Turn Guard -> DC -> Maelstrom (You can do any attack here really as long as it's different) -> cancel -> RP -> repeat

[Weiss_Hikari]

Exdeath can land Maelstrom (ground) easily with an Aerith assist. When the enemy comes to rush you down, have Aerith use Planet Protector on you and you'll get that free high damaging hit.

[Zero_Ruzai]

Can't use Aerith (one block)> Maelstrom>Aerith (two blocks).
I guess we all have our own opinions Robo, whatever gets us wins in pvp works I guess.
All I know is that I'm undefeated with Exdeath (I've only faced like 5 opponents though) and I've been a Black Hole whore the whole time ^^

[Pifreak]

So if High Block can't block some attacks it used to be able to, what's its blocking priority now?

[Lord Shmeckie]

Check the Exdeath Guards topic.

As for RP, yes, that's the way to go. Yes, Black Hole got a lot of buffs, and it is good as a ground move, but the fact that you can only deploy one at a time and can't properly control where it deploys hurts it as a pressure game. Coupled with that, RP pressure is unrelenting and forces the opponent into a rhythym where you know when they'll attack and can react accordingly, it can be used for quick combos, and might as well be unblockable (if they do block it, they eat a Delta Attack). Plus you can use it to gain a shitload of distance and set up Maelstrom, as well.

Also, following up Black Hole with Almagest is pretty much useless now thanks to Grand Cross' buffs. Larger hitbox, longer tracking time, and vaccuum effect. Just deploy it shortly before Black Hole is going to end, and you can tack on some extra hits before the HP damage. Following up Black Hle with Grand Cross is no longer the near-impossibility it used to be.

[RoboDestroyer]

Can't use Aerith (one block)> Maelstrom>Aerith (two blocks).
I guess we all have our own opinions Robo, whatever gets us wins in pvp works I guess.
All I know is that I'm undefeated with Exdeath (I've only faced like 5 opponents though) and I've been a Black Hole whore the whole time ^^Great example dude. I'm undefeated with alot of characters too but I've only used them online once vs a complete noob. Trust me dude Black Hole will get punished alot more easily then RP.

Hmm I've been thinking about this for a while but how about removing RP for Vacuum Wave? It's guard cancelable, you can snipe your opponent down (yes I know Maelstrom can already do this) starts chase if it hits and if they deflect it back at you you get a free guard.

Same idea could apply to Swords Dance and Hurricane but those are so bad that they're not worth using

[Lord Shmeckie]

I wouldn't go for it. RP is too damn versatile, and command Vaccuum Wave didn't get a single buff at all from what I can tell. It's still a weak, predictable projectile most people will dodge or just block. C-Vaccuum Wave got a ton of buffs, to be sure, but its command counterpart is still as weak as ever.

The deflecting it back at you sounds nice enough, but if the opponent knows you're going to do that, they can easily dodge it, or exploit the fact that they know you're going to pull out a Turn/Shell Guard and punish it. A Firion assist works better for that, anyway.

[Xirmant]

I thought I should say this but I think theres some sort of bug or glitch that stops me from countering after blocking Ulti's Apocalypse. It might just be me but does anyone else have this problem?

[MT1012]

What kind of builds would you have for Exdeath ?

[SawronZXZ]

I thought I should say this but I think theres some sort of bug or glitch that stops me from countering after blocking Ulti's Apocalypse. It might just be me but does anyone else have this problem?

I noticed this too. Not sure why it happens...

[Bloodsword83]

Do you mean that after you block it none of your inputs are acknowledged, or you get hit right after starting your counter?

[Ghurdrich]

Does Apocalypse have more than one hit in quick succession? You'll have trouble blocking it if that's the case. You might not be able to block it at all if that's the case.

[Bloodsword83]

Does Apocalypse have more than one hit in quick succession? You'll have trouble blocking it if that's the case. You might not be able to block it at all if that's the case.

If this is the case, then you just need to wait until all the hits have been blocked. That's because Omni Block blocks all of the hits after a successful block until he returns to neutral stance. Generally, you can get around this by countering with Almagest. It has a High Magic priority that allows it to block things like Seraphic Star and Dark Flame.

[MT1012]

could someone post a video of apocalypse getting successfully block or trying to?

[ujhbn]

Apocalypse is bugged. It is Ranged High priority. But when blocked by Jecht Block or Omni, the green word "Guard" won't appear, and won't count as a successful guard. Apocalypse disappears and Jecht/Exdeath won't take any damage, but you can't cancel the cooldown of J.Block nor do the counter attacks of Omni. Also if you try R-block Apocalypse, you will get hit but the "Guard Crush" words won't appear on screen either.

[Q*Bert]

Just learned Maelstrom. This is nothing short of the coolest technique in the game. I'd be interested to know exactly how many frames it is, though.

[Lord Shmeckie]

So. Huh. Seems that his Neo Almagest EX Burst counts as Physical damage... Who'da thunk it?


Apocalypse is bugged. It is Ranged High priority. But when blocked by Jecht Block or Omni, the green word "Guard" won't appear, and won't count as a successful guard. Apocalypse disappears and Jecht/Exdeath won't take any damage, but you can't cancel the cooldown of J.Block nor do the counter attacks of Omni. Also if you try R-block Apocalypse, you will get hit but the "Guard Crush" words won't appear on screen either.

I think it counts as something of a "splash" attack now, and should be treated the same way we treat Flood.

[SawronZXZ]

Apocalypse is bugged. It is Ranged High priority. But when blocked by Jecht Block or Omni, the green word "Guard" won't appear, and won't count as a successful guard. Apocalypse disappears and Jecht/Exdeath won't take any damage, but you can't cancel the cooldown of J.Block nor do the counter attacks of Omni. Also if you try R-block Apocalypse, you will get hit but the "Guard Crush" words won't appear on screen either.

Thanks for clarifying this. I had no trouble blocking it, just wondering why I couldn't counter.

[Kotei]

Just learned Maelstrom. This is nothing short of the coolest technique in the game. I'd be interested to know exactly how many frames it is, though.

I tested it and posted it here earlier. Maelstrom's casting time is 460F long, 1 second less than Starfall.

[Bloodsword83]

I would just like to point out that I was playing against a CPU Ultimecia and I managed to block AND counter Apocalypse.

[Zero_Ruzai]

I as well, although CPUs are quite a bit easier to time blocks for than opponents.
I thought this wasn't possible, but it is.

[Lord Shmeckie]

It's possible, but wonky and impractical. Better to dodge it, or bust out Grand Cross if you've got enough space.

[BrutalBlitzer]

Could anyone give me a good accessory build and/or basic abilities.

[Zero_Ruzai]

That's a tough one. Most people only do stuff like unarmed battles. I suggest trying out Succubus's Soul armor (Blood Sword, Blood Helm, Blood Mail, etc.) with equipment that boosts BRV on block (and maybe on dodge if you're playing a safe and looooooong game) along with any others that boost assist quickly (he's an assist-oriented character) and pure attack. I don't have specific builds though, since all I do is unarmed battles. But hopefully that can give you some ideas.

[Lord Shmeckie]

Quite a few people don't play 6999. myself included (it's boring and I hate it). The best recommendation I can give for an Exdeath equipment set would be:

Maximillian, Borghertz's Hands, and Grand Helm for your equipment, Enuo's Scourge for your weapon, and accessories that boost your ability to gather EX without completely sacrificng your ability to build Assist (which Exdeath can do better than most, giving him the ability to sacrifice some of it, and still build Assist efficiently while benefiting from his EX Mode as well).

[Narolf]

Quite a few people don't play 6999

No one plays 69 nowadays, actually. It isn't the standard or "obvious" ruleset any longer.

Time to fire up AHP again, Shmeckie.

[Lord Shmeckie]

No one plays 69 nowadays, actually. It isn't the standard or "obvious" ruleset any longer.

I know, isn't it great? :D

Quite a few people still insist on it, though. Some of them even join my AHP rooms even WHEN I CLEARLY WRITE "NO RULES" IN MY ROOM DESCRIPTIONS DUNVSEBVY BE RG JY BVYB ELKESXUE EI ANGER ANGER ANGER

>:(

[Myth3842]

So after taking a break from 012 I tried out Exdeath, and yeah I love him, and with Jecht assist he's a combo machine, Black Hole > Hurricane > Assist > Almagest and if I'm near a wall Jecht will promptly smack the enemy to the ground and I could continue the assault with Maelstrom > Block > Sword Dance > Assist > Maelstrom and considering that Jecht is pushing the enemy further away from me it gives me enough time to trigger Maelstrom.
I did use him i the original and was quite good with him except for the quick draw characters like OK or Squall.

[Zero_Ruzai]

Your second combo makes no sense...? Or maybe I'm just reading wrong =\
All I know is that I play with 6999 ruleset myself. It's SOMEWHAT balanced and doesn't take 30 minutes per battle, or a couple hours if it's an Exdeath vs. Exdeath battle (had one of these... never again. But I wonz ^^ )
To each his own though, it's been a few months since I've been on AHP myself (about 1 1/2 months I believe)

[Myth3842]

Well you can cancel out of Maelstrom with a block, so if said person decides to attack while charging I'll block and counter, if not than Maelstrom triggers.

[Q*Bert]

Anyone found a use for Hurricane? It seems built for the ground.

[Lord Shmeckie]

C-Hurricane, yes. Regular Hurricane? Not so much.

[Myth3842]

The only use I found for it was for when Black Hole hits or after an assist.

[BrutalBlitzer]

Which counters should you be using the most? I know that vacuum wave is a Mage killer.

[Enuo]

Use counters based on the situation presented to you. None are really the "best" but they all fill their roles.

BP Counters:
C-Hurricane: For staggering blocks with no wall rush potential or near the ceiling. Near a ceiling you can follow this up with an assist.
C-Swords Dance: For staggering counter with wall rush potential or a counter to use at mid range.
C-Vaccumn wave: Your long range BP counter. Try to space them out according to distance to make the whole attack undodgeable.

HP Counters:
C-Almagest: You're close to mid range Hp counter. Has full magic invulnerability so use it after blocking moves like lightning strike or ultima. Also use it as your wall rush counter.
C-Grand cross: Possibly your most deadly counter. Insanely fast start up for a transcient priority move and is fairly damaging. Can punish basically any HP move but on BP attacks that can't be punished hold your guard out to catch your opponent off guard who might doge immediately after seeing their move fail. Exdeath's most terrifying counter but if it is dodged you are very punishable.

[Bloodsword83]

Just to add to Enuo's excellent reply that you don't need to be near a ceiling or wall to hit with an assist during C-Hurricane's hitstun.

[sairawr]

Just started to use Exdeath a few days ago. Tell me, what critical boosters do you use with him? I mean other than Riposte and Counterattack, do you even use the others?

Also, IMO Aerith is the best assist for Exdeath. Planet Protector seems to be your best bet on the ground in getting Maelstrom out as it hinders the opponent from interrupting you for 5 seconds, I think. Add the fact that you can also use Holy in the air as bait for your opponent so that you can trap them in your Black Hole or Grand Cross. What do you guys think?

[Myth3842]

Probably not, maybe Fragile Pride if you're really good, or Assist Crit Boost if use offensive assists.

Like I said a few posts back, I use Jecht I find comboing with him really easy, although getting down the timing after Hurricane is pretty hard if you're not near a wall, plus you can get Maelstrom off since he pushes the opponent away, plus he has his prey locked in a combo for like 3-6 seconds.

[Lord Shmeckie]

Y'know who else makes a good assist for him and I'm glad is the case?

Bartz.

Guaranteed Grand Cross follow up when used near or at the cieling, and wall rushes upward to put the opponent where you want them, just in case. Ragnarok Blade makes for a good assist punish for HP damage, and likely Assist/EX Gauge depletion.

[Strifejr]

Ive always thought that Exdeath was a bad character, I still do think that, Now dont get me wrong his blocking and countering is impressive. But he is just WAYY to slow for my likeing.

[Zero_Ruzai]

Have you played online with any of these forum users that use Exdeath?

[Kurayami]

Hey guys, I was just wondering, which out of Vacuum Wave, Sword Dance, and Hurricane (non-counter versions) is the most useful in your opinion? I've seen Vacuum Wave used a bit, sometimes Sword Dance, but never Hurricane. I personally like to use Vacuum Wave, but I was just wondering what other people thought about his non-counter moves

[Vamper62]

Hey guys, I was just wondering, which out of Vacuum Wave, Sword Dance, and Hurricane (non-counter versions) is the most useful in your opinion? I've seen Vacuum Wave used a bit, sometimes Sword Dance, but never Hurricane. I personally like to use Vacuum Wave, but I was just wondering what other people thought about his non-counter moves

I personally don't use any of these right now (Black Hole ftw). When I did, I used Hurricane because it linked from RP very easily. Sword Dance is kinda slow (but the ability to cancel to a block helps) and Vacuum Wave, while boasting great range, is kinda easy to dodge and block. Well, at least that is my opinion.

On another note, is it worth using the Snowpetal Set or something else? There aren't many recent builds from notable Exdeath pros (like Ehx, Smeckie, and Bloodsword) to look at right now, and since I plan to work with Exdeath quite a bit now (along with Gabby, Vaan, and Garland), I'd really like to get some great PvP advice.

[Kurayami]

Yeah, I love Black Hole so much I use the aerial version of it, but I know other Exdeath users sometimes don't equip it in the air.

[Weiss_Hikari]

Black Hole works wonders.
Vamp, check out the build topic and see if you can find something you like. Personally I use an exp to HP build. Ground Sword Dance and Vacuum Wave work well, and anyone who reflects vacuum wave gives you a chance for a free counter. I use aerial block hole quite often.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0a273WS9vA

[Vamper62]

Black Hole works wonders.
Vamp, check out the build topic and see if you can find something you like. Personally I use an exp to HP build. Ground Sword Dance and Vacuum Wave work well, and anyone who reflects vacuum wave gives you a chance for a free counter. I use aerial block hole quite often.

Yeah, I already checked there. But all the builds are so old, I'd rather see something more recent (as in after Dissidence-D).

On the topic of EXP -> HP builds, has it been proven that Excalibur II with EXP -> HP provides more HP drain than the Succubus Soul set? I've been a little shaky on trying it since the succubus soul set works so well (and can be used with EXP -> HP)...

[K´Genesis]

Yeah, I already checked there. But all the builds are so old, I'd rather see something more recent (as in after Dissidence-D).

On the topic of EXP -> HP builds, has it been proven that Excalibur II with EXP -> HP provides more HP drain than the Succubus Soul set? I've been a little shaky on trying it since the succubus soul set works so well (and can be used with EXP -> HP)...

No, Succubus Soul still provides more. In full numbers:

Succubus Soul + 2 Growth Eggs + Exp To HP = 45% of BRV damage dealt converts into HP regeneration
Excalibur II + 2 Growth Eggs + Exp To HP = 30% of BRV damage dealt converts into HP regeneration

[Vamper62]

No, Succubus Soul still provides more. In full numbers:

Succubus Soul + 2 Growth Eggs + Exp To HP = 45% of BRV damage dealt converts into HP regeneration
Excalibur II + 2 Growth Eggs + Exp To HP = 30% of BRV damage dealt converts into HP regeneration

That's what I thought... When I saw Excalibur II on Weiss_Hikari's Exdeath build that was posted earlier this month, I was a little confused why that was there over Succubus Soul.

[Weiss_Hikari]

Because I have an artifact shield which gives +70% Exp and a Chocobo Feather, Wing, and Down with two growth eggs putting my Exp at 390%. Super Ribbon also prevents me from being able to use succubus soul in the first place.. Does this grant more than that?

[Vamper62]

Because I have an artifact shield which gives +70% Exp and a Chocobo Feather, Wing, and Down with two growth eggs putting my Exp at 390%. Super Ribbon also prevents me from being able to use succubus soul in the first place.. Does this grant more than that?

Well, most people wont let you use Artifacts and breakables in PvP, so I don't think it really matters.

[Weiss_Hikari]

With out it i'm at +320 Exp then. Still, does that beat out Succubous soul and 2 growth eggs?

[Bloodsword83]

I'm actually very happy with my BRV Boost on Dodge build for Exdeath. It really nullifies a lot of strategies that would otherwise work on Exdeath.

[Vamper62]

With out it i'm at +320 Exp then. Still, does that beat out Succubous soul and 2 growth eggs?

Well, do you really want to fill 5 slots of your accessories with EXP builders is the question...

------------------------------------------------
EDIT:
Actually, it wouldn't really matter. The 100% EXP boost from Excalibur II will still be weaker than Succubus Soul. So no matter what you do, you can't competitively do better using an Excalibur II over Succubus Soul.

[TheCuddlyDevil]

I thought EXP to whatever abilities aren't used at all, along with resins?

[Zero_Ruzai]

Generally, not in official tournaments, but in some fun-matches online, people generally don't care as much.
I've tried doing an EXP build on Duodecim before. It seems like they're pretty crappy compared to how they would have applied in the original Dissidia. If you can find a build that works, lemme know. For Exdeath, I've been sticking with Ancient Weapon. The attack boost is a whopper. If I play with chippers, like Zidane, I use Succubus's Soul. Everything I've tried with EXP builds have been kinda "meh"

[TheCuddlyDevil]

I'm still in the process of getting accessories and weapons. Haven't beaten Feral Chaos yet, but I still intend to stick with the BRV+ on Block build. At least right up until I lose faith in it.

EDIT: What say you of Fragile Pride?

[Zero_Ruzai]

Reviving this because it seemed appropriate for this post

After playing with some Duodecim buddies a bit, I changed my attack setup for him:

Aerial BRV:
Turn Guard
Black Hole
Reverse Polarity

Aerial HP:
Delta Attack
Grand Cross
Maelstrom

Assist: Kuja

Reasonings for change:
Omni-guard seems to be a must-have for Exdeath players. But most of the attacks Omni-guard blocks are very RP punishable or assist punishable already so I figured Black Hole would come more in handy than Omni-guard. And indeed it did.
I may post the vid later, but I'll just say what I pulled off:
First off, combos,
Since you're already at the ceiling, the combos were pretty easy to pull off
RP>Kuja Assist (KA)>Black Hole>Grand Cross
Black Hole>KA>Black Hole>Grand Cross
Grand Cross>KA>Black Hole>Grand Cross
Delta Attack>WR (they have to be kind of close)>KA>Black Hole>Grand Cross
Maelstrom>KA (takes pretty precise timing)>Black Hole (you have to be the right distance really)>Grand Cross
Maelstrom>KA (takes pretty precise timing)>Delta Attack
In fact, pretty much with all of these combos, if they're too far away for Black Hole to come in use, just Assist chase and do Delta attack instead.
Black Hole+Grand Cross is BRV rape, just throwing that out there.
Whenever he used HP attacks, it was pretty easy to counter with RP. I prefer this setup way over one with Omni-guard ^^
Anyway, this was just me adding in what I've started using.

[sairawr]

I... I... feel so vulnerable without... Omni Block. D:

I'll try your setup but instead of Turn Guard, I'll use Omni Block. 8D
(I am now prepared to fail at blocking my friends' attacks 100x in a row)

[Zero_Ruzai]

Without Omni-guard, it's still VERY easy to punish HP attacks and attacks that would break turn guard. You're basically replacing a guard>counter attack with dodge>RP. Turn guard comes in more handy by far. And I find Black Hole is even more useful than Omni. But try both and see what happens.

[Lord Shmeckie]

And then you get sent to a stage with no ceiling and your whole strategy is shot to hell.

And then you fight Kuja and are soundly welcomed back to DFF.

Exdeath needs Omni Block. You're overthinking his moveset; it's a very straightforward affair.

[Zero_Ruzai]

Clearly it's not the type of moveset you would use in Orphan's Cradle, or Ultimecia's Castle, which are the only two without ceilings. And it's still very easy to use that moveset while in UC, and hardly anyone likes Orphan's Cradle anyway.
I'm not sure what's not possible about Kuja. You can assist punish Ultima, which is the only move you would use Omni-guard with anyway. Otherwise, there's no point in having it there either.

[Bloodsword83]

Many Kuja player don't use Ultima anymore. They instead use Force Symphony. And you do need Omni Block against Kuja to block Flare Star and Seraphic Star. Kuja is able to move during Seraphic Star much faster than assists can punish, and if the player's good (which I am assuming), they'll have 2 assist bars before they even try to go on the offensive. That makes Omni-Block your best bet against Seraphic Star. Not your only, but your best.

[Q*Bert]

Stupid Trick Alert

1. Use Aeris HP attack in the air
2. Untarget the enemy and RP somewhere away from Aeris
3. Target the enemy
4. Maelstrom

[Balguna]

For some reason or other, the AI seems to read Hurricane as a guard-staggering attack (when only its counter version does that) - it also does this if you use Exdeath as an Assist. The normal version of Hurricane, however can be blocked fairly easily especially due to its startup time.