Flare use frequency advice

[Nemphtis]

I have a question that’s about the flow of combat in general, but I wanted to post this in the Emperor’s section as he is my main and perhaps your advice will vary depending on the character I play.

I’ve not been using Empy much on Duodecim as I’m just going through story mode and crap, but I imagine he plays more or less the same as he did in the original. I primarily relied on Empy’s Thunder Crest for BRV damage and his two flares to keep some pressure on my opponents. I have no idea if these three tools are considered the most crucial for the rest of you, but if so, this is where my problem comes into play.

If the flares I release for pressure actually end up hitting the enemy, I deal a small amount of HP damage and lose all my BRV, I hate the idea of entering ‘break’ mode from a single hit because my flare hit the enemy, it scares me. I try to build up enough BRV to kill an enemy with a single HP attack, is this a good idea with Empy or are his flares so crucial to his survival that I should use them at all times and focus on chipping HP away in small chunks, whilst risking ‘break’ after each successful flare impact.

I’m a casual Dissidia player so the way I play Empy is probably terrible, but I would like to know which of these two play styles benefit my character choice the most if possible. Spam flares throughout the match for pressure, or stockpile BRV by just using non-HP attacks until I can one-hit-kill my opponent?

[Pifreak]

I'm no Emperor player, but this depends on the character matchup.

Against another "BRV gatherer" you should try to build up BRV to "compete" with them, so that they don't kill you as quickly. However, if you simply aren't making progress, it's best just to chip away.

Against another chipper, it's best to gather BRV, since the BRV pool does give quite the boost, even it got reduced in DDFF. Along with Flare's HP wall rush property now, you'll be dealing major HP damage with that break.

But be careful, when having really high BRV, crits can go up to 8x. (I got this information from the a team's YT channel: TehNinjasHouse; one of their videos) You'll be feeling the pain then if you get hit. So land HP attacks accordingly depending on the situation, which means get apply it when you see your BRV racking up.

[Nemphtis]

So the more BRV I have, the more likely I will be on the receiving end of a critical hit? Good to know.

[Khell]

It's actually not an increased Critical chance, but an increase to Critical damage. The base is x2 at low brv (from 0/Break to like 2k or so I believe) and it increases as the target's BRV increases to x8 Critical damage at max BRV. It's essentially the only way you deal any damage to the Feral Chaos prototype in the Confessions of the Creator story (when he's got the 90x multiplier on his 5% defense accessory).

[SawronZXZ]

Since Emperor is a tanking character anyway, I would suggest doing what Pifreak said, and if you're chipping, DO NOT rely on ground Flare. Opponents (at least ones I face) will go out of their way to reflect it back at you.

[Nemphtis]

So is Bombard still the only move which can deflect ground flares back in the case of someone using an attack which reflects it? Also, what exactly do you mean by a tanking character, I'm not too familiar with the lingo. I just remembered reading somewhere that the less BRV you have when you connect with a HP attack, the faster it recovers back to your base BRV. So I guess chipping away HP is a little more viable than I initially thought, I always wondered why the hell it would take ages for my BRV to recover but I see videos where people's BRVs are back to base so fast.

[Kotei]

Flares can be used without worrying, if you know how to use it. Red Flare works good as a counter and a followup to Thunder Crest. It's a safe haven which can deflect tons of magics. You don't have to be so scared by a reflected Flare, because a good emperor player will always have Bombard equipped. You can also make the Flare harder to reflect. when you see that your opponent is using an attack that would deflect your Flare, you can recast it if you have enough time, cancelling the old one and making openings. An advanced strategy can also make Flare's direction really hard to predict: your Flare automatically follows the opponent all the time, but if you lock off, Flare will go straight forward. You can use this to your advantage. Also, with the fact that your opponent always attack in your direction, you can move around and make it harder.

Back in Dissidia, I think the Emperor was as good by chipping HP as by gathering Bravery. I think he's more like a Bravery gatherer now, since his combos with Thunder Crest are deadly (TC>Mine>Mine can take 2000 for example) . Also, if you have hit with a HP attack while having a very high bravery, you can use a reflected flare to your advantage. If you have like 0 brv or less, and if your opponent really like to deflect Flare, then let him use it and get hit by it. By being hit by a HP attack with your low bravery, you will return shortly to your base brave.

And if you don't want to get a break when you are recovering bravery, use omni air dash to go away. Quite simple, isn't it?

[Kraid]

^ What?

Nooooooo.

Ok let me explain a few things:

In Duodecim, you have LESS chances of using Flare now due to assist and the fact the actual 'Flare Move' when Emperor throws it out has been lengthened. This makes it easier to punish.

With the nerf in Criticals, Emperor is going to change from someone who can go both styles (Chip OR Brave Storing) to a... well chipper. You cannot store the bravery as much in Duodecim due to assists. This makes it so you need to chip more often. In Duodecim, you get the tools to actually help do the chipping due to Assists and the fact that Emperor is probably the best Assist Builder IN THE GAME. This means Emperor can get more out of his attacks. However you can still 'Brave Store' or 'Chip' depending on what you feel is correct.

[Nemphtis]

Do assists pose a problem because an opponent can call one in to attack you whilst you're still in the start-up frames of Flare?

Also, how were criticals nerfed exactly? I'm a casual so I don't know about a lot of these references.

[BRKNglassIncarnate]

For the first question, yes..I think (if they're using the right Assist).

In DFF, the criticals did 5x the normal damage. In DDFF, the criticals do 2x the damage only.

[Nemphtis]

Thanks for the info Kain, but I wonder if that makes the crit boosting abilities and items people often equipped in DFF mostly obsolete in this sequel. I remember a lot of people using Riposte on DFF, and the ability which gives you crits if you attack from behind or after blocking etc. Still worth the AP? Double damage is better than nothing I guess.

[BRKNglassIncarnate]

Yeah. It's definitely worth the AP (although I'm not an Emperor mainer so yeah :P)

I play a sort of defensive Emperor with a lot of block and then attack maneuvers so I always had Riposte and Sneak Attack.

But you should seriously talk to an Emperor mainer about this XD

[Kotei]

^ What?

Nooooooo.

Ok let me explain a few things:

In Duodecim, you have LESS chances of using Flare now due to assist and the fact the actual 'Flare Move' when Emperor throws it out has been lengthened. This makes it easier to punish.

With the nerf in Criticals, Emperor is going to change from someone who can go both styles (Chip OR Brave Storing) to a... well chipper. You cannot store the bravery as much in Duodecim due to assists. This makes it so you need to chip more often. In Duodecim, you get the tools to actually help do the chipping due to Assists and the fact that Emperor is probably the best Assist Builder IN THE GAME. This means Emperor can get more out of his attacks. However you can still 'Brave Store' or 'Chip' depending on what you feel is correct.

I was not talking about its capacity to punish, but about the move itself. Also, the cooldown for Flare is reduced, like any of his other moves, so it's not THAT bad. But sure, the nerf on startup is a bad thing, especially for Aerial Flare. I don't see a lot of assists being able to punish it (Sephiroth does it seems however).

The Emperor gain assists really fast, this means that he can use assist a lot of the time, he can gain 2 bars fairly easily (thank you Starfall). Also, as I said, combos with Thunder Crest are devastating, especially since its damage has been buffed. Chipping isn't safer than gathering brave, because a well placed assist will break you with ease. Chipping is still valuable, of course, but I don't really think it's that safe (especially against some characters). Emperor's damage potential is too good for letting it go to waste.

[Kraid]

All assists can punish Flare Kotei. Storing Brave for Emperor is bad also since a lot more stuff can reflect Flare these days making it a lot less safe.

[Kotei]

The main problem is that you can't rely on Dreary Cells that much, you were right in saying that's not a very good trap. But thanks god that Thunder Crest is still as reliable as before, with its many buffs. You can also bait assists while casting Flare for an assist kill (against a Sephiroth assist it works pretty good).

[Grand Cross]

Thunder crest got buffed? In what way?

[Nemphtis]

Thunder crest got buffed? In what way?

I believe increased damage is one of them, not sure about any other buffs.

[Astri]

Also keep in mind; if being broken after an HP attack is worrying you, you can add some accessories like the Bravery Orb or Great Gospel to increase the rate your Brave regenerates at. The 50% Bravery recovery rate from Great Gospel alone really makes a big difference in how quickly you go from "0 Brave right after HP Attack" to "Base Brave value" again. Granted, those are accessory slots that could be filled with damage accessories instead, but if Break is a concern, then I say go for it. I have some Brave recovery accessories on my Cloud of Darkness, because I definitely chip with her HP attacks and I'm also concerned about Break, and it seems to work pretty well for me, so. Yeah.

[AlexY]

Also keep in mind; if being broken after an HP attack is worrying you, you can add some accessories like the Bravery Orb or Great Gospel to increase the rate your Brave regenerates at. The 50% Bravery recovery rate from Great Gospel alone really makes a big difference in how quickly you go from "0 Brave right after HP Attack" to "Base Brave value" again.

I also use Bravery recovery accessories - Emperor is pretty powerful anyway, it just seems better to actually control your Bravery and keep it away from Break. Critical rates higher (via Fragile Pride, Spite, Counterattack, etc.) + fast bravery recovery = decent damage with every Flare hit.

[SilverCrono]

I use Empy a lot, and yes, I keep Flares out all the time. They're great pressure, and I have Reverse Air Dash, so gettin away from reflected Flares is easy. :D

And if you're afraid of Break after HP attacks, then...never use HP attacks? That's the only solution. It's kind of the core game mechanic.

[Xander]

The way I see it, you should not spam ground Flare often unless the opponent doesn't have a move that can reflect it, but you should use his aerial Flare more as it has a wall rush property now. So if you successfully laid a Thunder Crest jump and use aerial Flare quickly for added damage.

Also start to utilize his Dreary Cell more, meaning get used to it. Try to anticipate an opponent, if he fancy's dashing towards you, set a Dreary Cell so when he dashes he will attack you but at a cost of getting bombarded by Dreary Cell. Also if you know when you can punish an opponent when they use an attack quickly summon an assist to punish them, The Emperor can build assist fast so take advantage of it. Preferably use an assist that does chase so you can then proceed to use Mines which takes a great amount of damage or if you think you have enough brave go for the assist chase to aerial Flare.

[Neo Bahamut]

I thought both Flares got Wall Rush?

[Sol Diviner]

Reflected Flares are not that big of a hazzard. In fact, because a reflected Flare is now technically your opponent's projectile, you can launch a second Flare, and then proceed to reflect the first Flare back at your opponent via Bombard - effectively having two Flares chasing your opponent. I have been able to get as many as three Flares after my opponent this way.

[Disastertastrophe]

Yes, exactly what Sol said. Not only that, but you can sort of use Flares to "bait" your opponent into reflecting them. In other words, if you know your opponent is going to reflect a Flare, punish the attack with an assist(assuming it's something that won't run into the Flare, of course).

[Xander]

Yes a great idea but you must know that Bombard is a close range attack and its not fast so while you try to be sneaky by manipulating Flare count by letting your opponent hit it, you will eventually or possibly get hit in the process by your opponent and hence your brave used against you by your own Flare.

[Sol Diviner]

Yes a great idea but you must know that Bombard is a close range attack and its not fast so while you try to be sneaky by manipulating Flare count by letting your opponent hit it, you will eventually or possibly get hit in the process by your opponent and hence your brave used against you by your own Flare.

The point isn't to try to get a million Flares at your opponent, nor is it about intentionally reflecting reflected Flares. It's about turning a potentially disadvantageous scenario into an advantageous one. Bombard may be slow, but when reflecting a Flare back at your opponent, it's usually when you're at a comfortable distance away so that you don't get blatantly punished.

[Xander]

Understood but the Flare is slow for you to wait and while your at you distance the opponent is following you faster than you waiting or getting enough distance for Flare to hit. Flare shouldn't be ejected out of spite but when you know there is enough time to hit it or using it as bait for a Thunder Crest, like the moment you employ a Flare(ground) following it so when they attempt to return it they get caught by a counterattack Thunder Crest. However it can be risky because while they get caught by the Thunder Crest it may be that the Flare has been reflected already and whilst casting it(catching the opponent successfully) you get damage by your own reflected Flare.

[Kotei]

You can also cast a Flare when you have 0 or minimal bravery, and taking a reflected Flare will reset your bravery. Flare reflecters usually reflect it without thinking about that.

[Astri]

Oooh. I don't think I would have thought of that either. Granted, better to avoid it if possible, but between eating a 200-HP Flare or risking Break...

[AlexY]

You can also cast a Flare when you have 0 or minimal bravery, and taking a reflected Flare will reset your bravery. Flare reflecters usually reflect it without thinking about that.

Yes, this is especially delicious if the opponent has low HP, and you already launched a NEW Flare in the meantime.

[Xander]

A good idea, but you as the player will have to worry 1st to not have low brave because well once Emperor hits, he hits hard to a point of brave break meaning he will have plenty of brave and maintaining it is hard so use the brave gained quickly before the opponent depletes it or lower it to a point where you have to raise it again.