Knowing Your Weapons ~ Firion Build Guide & Discussion

[Cookies]

Here's one of mine: An EX, EXP build.

*EXP to HP/EX can be used fairly interchangeably with this build, but I prefer to use EXP to EX.

The point of this build is sort of as a hybrid. The general aim is to build EX, which can then be used to get health back, or for ExRevenge. Thus Excalibur II and growth egg for boost in EXP.
*The summon is pretty much for the multiplier but can be useful if you really need some brave.
*Sturm und Drang and Muscle Belt are in there to maximise damage. Although, they may be worth switching out for an attractorb/bravery orb, which would make it easier to get EX.
*Jecht is used instead of Sephiroth or Kuja etc. because the idea is to stay fairly grounded, but assists aren't really the focus.
*Judgement of Lufenia and Dismay Shock are used because it's all about abusing EXP to __ and they work really nicely together, especially in a PVP set.
*The multipliers were chosen on their likelihood of staying in effect. Brave >= Base may not be the best choice since this is a build centered around dealing HP damage (to gain EX) and so it might be worth changing out for Large Gap in HP, but that wont be activated for as much of the battle (especially if you suck like me :P).
*Close to you is used because it increases your efficiency in EX collecting. It means that your opponent is unlikely to steal any ex force that you generate and you don't have to worry about picking it up.
*Having both Magic Arts: Flame and Bolt was a mistake. It was supposed to only have one, to save on CP, since the build is meant more for ground play, but whether or not the extra CP is necessary has yet to be determined.

[KurogamiXXI]

Here's my build...



I used Wild Rose for the +70 ATK, and also the slight Counterattack. I don't think Counterattack's worth equipping as an ability, as I've seen a lot of people used Disable Counterattack.

I used Judgment of Lufenia because the 15% depletion is too good to pass up. I'll just spam Swordslash for assist when I'm in danger of getting an EXR to the face anyway :P

I chose Boosters that mostly works well with Battle Hammer (I could easily deplete 80% of opponent's AST gauge with a wall rush HP attack). Used BRV = 0 because it works well with AST depletion on the wall rush HP. It doesn't help if the HP attack didn't wall rush though, so you can change to BRV >= Base Value if you prefer. Opponent Summon Unused because I don't see people using summons often in casual matches.

I thought of equipping Bravery Orb, but that means I'd have to either remove Muscle Belt or a booster. I don't like removing Muscle Belt, and removing a booster makes my AST gauge depletion much less effective.

And, well, that's pretty much it.

[Kayarine]

@Cookies:
I'd say replace Sturm und Drang with a Hyper Ring... Unless you want the other effects besides more damage.

EXP to EX isn't really worth it, in my opinion. It got nerfed quite a bit and it doesn't give as much. Plus EXP to HP stacks with Blood Weapons, which is nice if you're landing HP attacks without breaking.

Center of the World? If you mean Close to You, I think Tenacious Attacker would do the job without further lowering assist charge. The reason is that if you get hit, you can easily recover and OAD around the cloud of EX force and collect it, then get away if necessary. Not a whole lot of people use Tenacious Attacker or Close to You, so you shouldn't be that pressed for getting the EX force as soon as possible, and Firion is one of the few characters who can benefit more from OAD than FAD.

I think some EX force intake range would be beneficial. Attactorb lowers assist charge even more, while Heaven's Cloud doesn't allow for the EXP to ___ setup, however... So you'd need to sacrifice something.

The HP-based boosters are impractical for a long match. They won't be active unless you're godly at dodging and reading HP attacks or if you're landing HP attacks in EX mode, which isn't always. I'd recommend at least another booster that can be active for the duration of the match.

Actually, I think Jecht assist makes Firion have to get off the ground more often than Sephiroth/Kuja (unless you decide to go for Straightarrow, but then that would do less BRV damage,) unless you're playing in a stage with absolutely no banish traps or holes such as Order's Sanctuary or Pandaemonium's Top Floor. But I disgress.


@Kurogami
Honestly I don't think you need so many boosters solely for the purpose of enhancing Battle Hammer if you already have Judgement of Lufenia. It'll usually take 50-60% of the opponent's assist gauge, which is enough in most cases unless your opponent likes to assist camp until they have a full gauge. And if they use summons right off the bat or around the beginning of the match, you'll lose a booster anyway.

You could replace one of the boosters with a Hyper Ring (more damage, takes advantage of Wild Rose's high ATK,) Dismay Shock (prevents EXR, spamming Swordslash sometimes won't cut it because of decay. Rope Knife/Lance Combo are the next best things to avoid the decay, but they can be blocked fairly easily. Not to mention that you get assist locked for 20 seconds) or Sniper Eye (if you decide to keep BRV = 0, although I don't think this is that good by itself.)

Is Bravery Orb even needed with Jecht assist? (I wouldn't know, I never used Jecht assist much.)

[Cookies]

Dang, I was thinking Close to you :P

I didn't say it was a great build :P I think it's a bit too cobbled together really, and bits are interchangeable (like you said for the Attractorb). I just didn't want to go with another cliched Firion HP build.

[KurogamiXXI]

So, I switched BRV = 0 for Dismay Shock and Opponent Summon Unused for Hyper Ring. Kinda generic build, but works well =/

Oh, also, you don't need Bravery Orb with Jecht assist. I never noticed the numbers until now.

[Kayarine]

Added LonelyGaruga's Extra HP to BRV build to the first post because I think it's a fine example of how such a build could work.

----

Okay, with Hollowed's help, I made this build. It's a damage/EX hybrid, but I still haven't tested it in online matches yet. If anyone would like to give it a spin, feel free to. I might still tweak it or scrap the idea altogether, depending on how effective this is.

You might notice that I incorporated various bits of other builds people posted here. =p Thanks for the ideas, guys. Anyway, onto what actually matters...

Wild Rose is there for maximum base ATK, as usual. Extra HP to BRV may be handy since I'm actually using EX in this set, but it most likely won't, considering the idea I built this around.

I'm using Seal of Lufenia instead of the usual Judgement of Lufenia because of Lufenian Dirk, which gives +1 ATK and helps maximize damage. Plus it saves me an accessory slot that otherwise would be used for Dismay Shock.

Hyper Ring and Muscle Belt are standard damage build fare. Battle Hammer is there as a staple, but I'm unsure if it's worth it due to lack of Judgement of Lufenia and somewhat low multiplier (3.2x max, which includes Large Gap in HP active.)

Large Gap in HP is there because it should activate after breaking the opponent (which shouldn't be hard with all the damage stuff) and landing a HP attack. Blood Weapon may also contribute for this booster to stay active.

BRV ≥ Base Value is yet again another generic booster. Since the purpose of this set is for breaking, it should be active most of the time.

Pre-EX Revenge is there because the focus of this set is getting into EX mode along with dealing damage, so I won't be using EXR unless in case of emergency.

White Gem is, as you might've guessed, the only thing that's helping me get EX here. I'll have to abuse the bow followup a lot to make use of this. Like I was discussing with LonelyGaruga yesterday, I don't actually need to go into chase unless there's a lot of EX force floating around the field. Chase is too risky if there's not much EX force around to profit from it. Just using a bow followup or ground Swordslash (if not assist comboing) then jumping around to collect the generated EX force should suffice in most cases.

Aggressor is to maximize EX mode damage, which should make breaks easier to attain, which in turn makes Blood Weapon much more effective. I'm alright with the shorter EX mode duration because if I don't enter EX mode right as I'm about to land a HP or break into EX burst, I'll most likely end up getting assist camped and EX mode will end or I'll get EX broken. A perfect Fervid Blazer will do around 800 damage if the opponent's EX defense is at +10 consistenly, which should help immensely with breaking the opponent.

First to Victory is there to make getting into EX mode easier with the +25% initial EX gauge. +25% assist gauge and initial BRV are nice bonuses.

Of course, since I still have access to assists, assist combos will do quite a lot of damage. Not to mention that assist combos off ground Swordslash allow me to go into chase safely to collect EX force.

Constructive criticism and ideas are greatly appreciated.

[Cookies]

I like the idea, but I can't help but think you'll struggle to get into Ex mode more than a few times. Unless you're really abusing the attacks that produce the most Ex, I think without much added force absorption or core absorption it might take too long.

That's pure theoryfighter though...

[Emperor Penguin]

It's funny because I've been testing builds with the same concept on a lot of characters. The issues I have with it on Firion are the following.

1) I feel the moves Firion needs to generate decent EX put him too far out of his comfort zone for the whole concept to be reliable. The only chase moves Firion has are bow followup, Swordslash, and Frost, and these aren't moves that Firion should be actively looking to land.

2) It's not very easy to land Rope Knife or Lance Combo, so using the very weak bow followup over Double Trouble feels wasteful, not to mention it goes against the whole damage part of the build. Some alternatives I've been trying are Excalibur II with Growth Eggs and Heaven's Cloud with Tenacious Attacker to squeeze the most EX out of his combos and HP attacks, but so far the results have been meh at best.

One minor gripe is that BRV>Base Value doesn't work very well with Firion's best combos or with EX Bursts. Take this combo for example, Rope Knife > Double Trouble > Kuja Assist > Bolt > Weaponsmaster. The booster will only work until Double Trouble, and then miss out on the bulk of it unless you get a Break somewhere in between.

Overall, the idea of your build is very good (as EX Revenge would be excellent to go along with his defensive style, and EX Burst would boost his already great damage to ridiculous levels), but in practice I find Firion's process of collecting EX to be very impractical. Let's keep looking for solutions though, your build is a very good start.

EDIT: You may be right in thinking that the lone AST depletion on Battle Hammer isn't enough. Its efficiency on Firion takes a hit without Side by Side.

[Kayarine]

Boosters have no effect in EX bursts, so it doesn't matter.
Like I said, I don't have to go into chase unless there's a lot of EX force around to get. And the knockback of the bow followup should give enough time to just jump around, collect it and land back on the ground.

But anyway, I'm playing at the moment and trying to test the build... I'll post my thoughts along with any changes I might make later.

[Emperor Penguin]

Good info on EX Burst, I didn't know that.

Don't you run the risk of getting the EX stolen from you if you try to let it build up before collecting it? Also, you still have to go out of your way to land Swordslash or bow followup, regardless if you actually chase or not. I might just be misunderstanding you though.

Anyway, have fun testing.