Custom rulesets' discussion

[K´Genesis]

~

Custom Ruleset Parameters:

Spoiler:

Initial Stage Bravery: 110
Stage Bravery Recovery Time: 100
Banish Trap Damage: 0
Warp Damage: 50
Critical Hit Rate: 100
Critical Damage: 100
Ex Core Appearance Rate: 0
Ex Core Absorption: 0
EX Force Absorption: 100
EX Mode Duration: 24
Wall Rush Damage: 25
Bravery Bonus: 0
Stage Bravery: 100
Assist Break Rate: 100
Ex Break Rate: 100
Assist Gauge Charge (Attack): 50
Assist Gauge Charge (Hit): 150
Assist Lock Duration: 70
Assist Gauge Depletion Rate: 100
EX Damage from Assist Attack: 100
Ex Revenge Duration: 2

Calendar Bonus: Off
Artifacts: Off

Explanation and analysis of the ruleset and its changes:

Spoiler:

10% more on Stage Bravery to value Breaks a bit more, since OHKOs are neglected now. The end-value is of 2110 per break.

Banish and Warp damaged nulled/reduced to inhibit external factors from interfering and/or rewarding the losing party, something this game does too much and one of the things I'm looking to inhibit.

Ex Cores awkwardly interrupt the flow of battle and leave Ex intake to chance. They literally make or break matches sometimes. My goal here is to keep the fight focused on players 100% of the time.

Ex Mode duration increased to make it count as a stand-alone tool.

Now to where it gets tricky. AST Charge on Attack set to 50 is a good enough value to allow people to whiff attacks for the assist gauge. Some match-ups even DEPEND on that to be fair at all. But setting it to the same value as a hit is demeaning the value of a hit. And in any other fighting game that has a gauge, a whiff never has the same value of a hit.
So, in short, whiffing purposefully is OK. But making it as valuable as getting in the action is just wrong.

AST Charge on Hit to 150 to make players value the action. "Are you on the offensive? Fine, here's your reward.". This,along with the whiff nerf, also turns assists into what they're supposed to be: auxiliary resources, helping from time to time. Not the supreme tools of combat.

AST Lock Duration to 70 so that players can get back in action faster and to prevent one from locking the opponent's assist and go back to camping just to be ahead. It works well with the AST Charge on Attack lowered.

Finally, Ex Revenge Duration: 2 because ExR is just ExG without the possbility of a burst. And an Ex Gauge works more like a check-mate now than ever. 2 seconds is enough for it to play the same part as it did in DFF and then some.

Equipment/Accessories allowed:

Spoiler:

- Imp Set

- Tenacious Attacker
- Glutton
- First To Victory

---

First of all, a big shout-out to the players who showed up this weekend. You guys were awesome and provided a very nice experience. Second, now it's time to voice your opinions after playing it through. Anything you'd like to say about the whole experience, that's the opportunity. Here's some guidance on what's to be expected:

- Rule specifics and how(if) they affected gameplay
- Counterpick System
- Smash Striking and the stages provided for it
- No summons

[TKG09]

I only managed to play one match in the tourney before my internet crashed, so you might think I don't know what I'm talking about. However, I did play some friendlies in it, with Downpour and RDF. Also, TL;DR at bottom.

- Rule specifics and how(if) they affected gameplay

The rules didn't accomplish what they intended to, but they were defitely a step in the right direction. The fact that you build (way) more assist by actually hitting the opponent than by just whiffing is a neat concept, but it needs to be worked on, because I still managed to SF spam my way to victory, and Ehx did the same with Ehxdeath and his RP. I also liked the whole balancing EX and Assists thing, but once again, it needs to be worked on. Even though it IS easier to get EX, it is not enough, because I don't think I ever got to EX with Sephiroth, not even once, and that is considering the fact that I'm a big chase whore.

- Counterpick System

The counterpicking system was nice. While it gives the player that lost an edge, like it is supposed to feel, it doesn't feel like a huge hopeless edge, like the one in Dissidence-D felt. It is fair and balanced, not a thing I would change about it. That is... other than smash striking, addressed below.


- Smash Striking and the stages provided for it

I'll just say this: Smash Strike was done incorrectly in this tourney. The way it was done, the player who strikes first will be at a advantage because he gets to pick his character after the other player. This is compensated by the fact that he does not pick the actual stage, but when he gets to strike 2 stages, it doesnt matter. I suggest striking in a 1-2-1 pattern (like in smash) and having characters be decided at will at any time, like they were in DFF. Either that, or have both players announce their characer to a third person, with no knowledge of the other player's character.
As for stages, I think they are fine, although it is lacking a open stage for mages. I would also allow for Gentleman's rule.


- No summons

I like having no summons. In my opinion, summons are just annoying things that let you either: 1-Get BRV/Breaks more easily, letting you do more damage (Cactuar, Alexander, Land Worm, Shiva, Brynhildr, Ifrit, Behemoth, Odin etc.) 2- Save your ass (Magus Sisters, Phoenix, Demon Wall, Cactuar (not so much), Odin, etc.) or 3- Counter other summons (Asura, Ramuh, Scarmiglione, Cagnazzo, Barbariccia, Rubicante, Syldra). The first two just get in the way of the game's flow, and sometimes even take the skill away. For example: Activating Catuar in the middle of a combo equals an easy break and a lot of extra damage (2000), not to mention a lot of character already have devastating combos. Or, I could activate magus sister in the middle of a would-be killing blow, not only halves the damage took, but sets base BRV to 500, which is easy to break for a lot of characters. Or I could use atomos when they are trying to HP Attack me after a break, sucking in roughly 8000 BRV, which is like 80% of ones full HP. As for the third, well, everyone that use them (especially asura) do it because they don't like summons, or find them to be annoying, which only shows that they need to go.

TL;DR: It still needs to be worked on, but it was definitely a step in the right direction

[TWOxACROSS]

I didn't get to be in the tourney because of work, but the day before I played a lot of matches using the Genetic Single ruleset (Apparently Narolf likes that name ), so I feel I got a lot of experience at least with how the rules worked. I'll just hit up the main points about the ruleset that you changed specifically...

Initial Stage Bravery - This might have been a mix up, but it puts a lot of value on that very first Break, but none of the others. It seems a bit redundant since "First to Victory" already gives a slight boost to the players' starting Bravery. If we want to value Breaks more, instead of just one, we should have boosted the "Stage Bravery" element, and not just the Initial Stage Bravery. Nevermind...just noticed that it's impossible to set up Stage Bravery as anything other than 100 or 0 >.<

EX Cores - Not having the EX Core appearances was really nice, because as you said, it helped to not break the flow of action, or providing someone a trump card. Like TKG said, though, it was still a bit difficult to build EX properly - although a step in the right direction. I actually toyed around with some rulesets on my own and came up with one that mildly boosts the EX Force, and it actually put it near par with AST gain, and ended up really balancing it out. However, that random ruleset I used also still had EX Cores (which gave a bit more, too), but I think that if you were to keep EX Cores off, and slightly amplify the EX Force, it would go well in working in a much more balanced way in the EX vs AST dynamic.

Banish Traps - Reducing their affect on the game may have been moot, but it's still probably a nice idea, especially since sometimes falling/getting stuck in a Banish Trap comes from no fault of the player, and only the fact that the increased speed of the game and lack of jump resets can inadvertently lead to falling in one.

Assist Charge - A step in the right direction, although maybe it might be best to move more of the ratio onto the [Hit], discouraging further shadowboxing on characters than can still use it to great effect. I'd imagine the point is to give incentive to actually hitting the opponent, while still giving a consolation if the attack misses. It might even be enough to leave [Hit] at it's current ratio, but drop [Attack] more.

Assist Lock - Reducing Lock time is a nice boon, but it still doesn't get rid of the increase to that duration with each new Lock, which still forces people to keep Locks in mind. Not sure if people know, but each new Lock lasts longer than your previous one.

EX Mode Duration - Nearly negligible, since most were still unable to go EX. However, for the times I was able to, a few extra seconds didn't make so much of a difference, but it was nice in order to get a bit more HP from the Regen. However, at the same time, it gave a few more seconds of risk of getting hit with an Assist Break...

EX Revenge - I had previously asked why two seconds and not just one, since I had my tweaked rules that worked well enough at one second, and acted more like a GTFO combo breaker, while not giving much more to the user beyond the normal stagger time the opponent suffers from. However, two seconds seems fair enough, because it's just a bit more than a normal stagger, so it can give an extra moment for, say, a character hit by a long-range move. The fact that, no matter what, EX Revenge will stagger the opponent is good in so much that it works on everyone - where previously EX Guard was great for countering melee attackers, but was much less effective against a ranger.

Equipment and Accessories - Seems fine to me, the Imp Set still proved useful in helping gain EX, along with the accessories, helping EX become a (more) viable option. With the suggestion to up the EX Force, it might be a more prefect balance in that dynamic.

All in all, I agree - some things need to be tweaked some more, but it's a step in the right direction. I had a lot of fun playing with this ruleset, and it was great that the action wasn't punctuated by Core races, and actually being able to actually have a decently filled EX Gauge to sit on. Unfortunately, unlike Assists, EX can't be used until it's full, so amplifying the EX Force intake would level it out a bit more. Maybe a trade-off between more EX and putting the EX Mode duration back to default would suffice.

That's about all I've got, hope it helps n.n

[Seraph Sephiroth]

Rule specifics and how(if) they affected gameplay
The buff to ex mode time didn't help at all since I NEVER reached ex mode in any of my matches. Nerfing asists on whiff just dragged matches out and made them an assist camp off. Sephiroth and exdeath still built assist ridiculously faster than everybody else. All in all, assists don't need a nerf ex just needs a buff to how much you gain from ex force.
Counterpick System
Fine, it gave the losing player a sleight advantage but I never felt completely hopeless.
No summons
Summons give an unfair advatage. Never felt like I missed them.

[LonelyGaruga]

It was an enjoyable experience, but part of that was probably the psychological aspect of participating in a tournament. Did better than I expected, surprised some people (including myself). Now, for my feedback...

- Rule specifics and how(if) they affected gameplay

Equipment and accessories: Assuming you're talking about the rules of the tournament and not exclusively the custom ruleset...Some disadvantageous matchups, particularly characters that have a hard time dealing with Sephiroth, can be somewhat balanced by BRV boost on dodge builds. By limiting equipment choices and preventing such builds, these matchups are pretty much unwinnable, which is never fun.

EX Cores: Not having to go after EX Cores was a decent change of pace. I rather prefer it, personally, but it does limit EX building considerably.

EX Mode: I got a full gauge in 3/11 of my matches, and used it twice, and in only two of those matches my opponent was able to obtain a full gauge as well. As it is, there isn't enough emphasis on EX Force to enter EX mode reliably, which is more obvious by the lack of EX Cores or adjustments to increase EX Force absorption. It goes without saying that the increased EX Duration was pretty meaningless to me, and probably isn't useful at all in the first place, seeing how EX is, more than anything else, a trump card to end the match with and not something to be abused (Gabranth aside). Changing its purpose doesn't seem like it would go well to me.

Assist Gauge Charge: It wasn't noticeable for me until I fought a Sephiroth, but this worsens the assist building gap between characters like Onion Knight and characters like Sephiroth and Exdeath, because of their ability to pressure with SF/RP while building assist rapidly at the same time. I personally couldn't get more than a single assist bar in my second match against Seraph Sephiroth, and previously I not only had zero difficulty building assist, but found that a couple of my opponents had the same problem against me, to a lesser degree. This is easily the most problematic issue I had with the ruleset, assist building was an exercise in futility in some matchups.

Assist Lock Duration: Shorter locks allow for more tactical usage of assists, which I found quite useful in my matches against Ehx. Didn't really notice too much of a difference in my matches though, I don't really think it's necessary to tweak this.

EX Revenge Duration: Setting it to two seconds makes it useless against long range characters, but also prevents EXR combos...in the current ruleset this might be necessary, considering an EXR after an HP hit is a free break + HP damage, but in normal equipment matches EXR is pretty balanced, thanks to EX depletion.

- Counterpick System
- Smash Striking and the stages provided for it

I felt these were fine. The stage selections didn't matter to me, and counterpicking seems pretty fair to me. What TKG suggested about Smash Striking seems preferable to the system used for this tournament, however.

- No summons

Never used them in the first place. No comment.

Honestly, I'd rather have played Official...

[Mass Zero]

I didn't participate, but do allow me to give a little bit of feedback. :O

I agree with Garuga on the accessories, limiting them to a set selection removes the possibilities of more "creative freedom" against certain opponents. In D-D, BRV Boost on Dodge, although I didn't win, helped me a lot against Downpour. Of course not every accessory is good for tournament play, so how about a list of allowed, or rather a list of banned accessories?

No EX Cores is perfect, but like others say, there need to be means to get into EX just a bit faster. Else improving the EX Force intake still seems pretty useless and inferior to AST guage building. As for AST, shadowboxing seems to remain a problem. Why not lower the AST increase on a whiff so drastically, that it only really helps to make sure your AST guage doesn't start depleting? Doing so will also create openings for the opponent to attack, keeping a nice flow of battle.

I'm not that much of a tournament guy, so I might be talking bs, but this is what I think.

[TWOxACROSS]

It's possible that to completely remove/drastically lower [Attack] would work, coupled with a bit of new accessories, could make Assist Charging more of an even playing field. I mean, if you drop it, what does that leave? Attacking, and using Assist Gauge Up Dash for charging, and shadowboxing would serve only as a means for maintenance. However, the strategy behind it makes it eerily similar Snooze and Lose - although, the penalty isn't nearly as bad

The only problem is that wholly dropping [Attack] could cripple Exdeath from gaining Assist beyond Assist Charges...so maybe leaving a little bit left to [Attack] would still help him. Eh...something to test, of course

The main point I think is tweaking EX Force absorption if we keep EX Cores off, which I am all for. I really love not having EX Core races, but beyond that, we'd also need to modify the current Absorption rate to make up for the loss of Cores that automatically give at least 25% to your EX Gauge. Bumping Absorption up one notch to 200 from the regular 100 (there's no intervals between ) has worked out well enough in my toying around with rulesets, and makes it so EX stands a fairer chance against AST - plus, coupled with the equipment and accessories, makes it easier to gather.

[Seraph Sephiroth]

Assist should be left ALONE. Exdeath and sephiroth will always build assist faster than everyone else, even with nerfed assist on whiff seph built it twice as fast as everyone else. If you want true balance boost ex itself not try to nerf assist to make ex look better.

[Mass Zero]

Assist should be left ALONE. Exdeath and sephiroth will always build assist faster than everyone else, even with nerfed assist on whiff seph built it twice as fast as everyone else. If you want true balance boost ex itself not try to nerf assist to make ex look better.

It's not just to make EX look better, it's to make sure AST really counts for something. Right now it's still too easy to get in a free HP hit. :/ But yes, I must agree, Exdeath and Sephiroth remain a problem in that department.

[LonelyGaruga]

Nerfing assists was a terrible idea. Nerf them further and characters will never be able to keep up with the likes of Sephiroth and Exdeath. If whiffs are made useless, either assists themselves will become pointless or too much focus will be put on the person able to hit most easily, or the one that hits first. Official is far more balanced than any of the changes made so far, trying to make this game like DFF is pointless.