Tier List Speculation

[Vamper62]

I see Garland making it pretty high in the list as well (I've been working with him quite a bit since the game came out). His ground game is brilliant and his Aerial game is fantastic with Bardiche, Lance Charge, and Thundaga. Also, his EX Revenge combos are just plain scary. They can make a game end instantly if the opponent doesn't have an Assist charge on reserve. His HP attacks are decent as well, with Hurricane being pretty awesome, and Flare being just amazing in almost every way. His options are superb and has tools for almost every situation (both in the BRV and HP genre as well). I'm planning on representing him in the next tourney (and what should be the first mostly legit tourney with no FC and custom rulesets) along with Vaan and Gabranth.

[Mikeee]

This is just a speculation, I still don't understand why people are so:

Spoiler:

God forbid people actually take a serious discussion topic and fill it serious discussion!

I mean, geez, certainly you're just doing your job as a moderator by blowing the momentum and discouraging people from discussing the game on serious levels!

[Lord Shmeckie]

I do believe he was just addressing the people saying it's impossible to discern a tier list yet and what the fuck are you doing, ala Axel's most recent post, when this topic is just speculation over who'll end up in what tier and no one's trying to seriously form a tier list yet.

Calm down, brah.

[RavenCarver]

So, back on topic (fyi, the topic isnt "should we discuss whether or not to discuss a tier list", it's "tier list discussion." Focus, people.)

So, commenting on what Garuga said about Gabranth: You're wrong, buddy. Gabranth sucks ass because the pressure tools to keep him out of Exmode are now much more freaking insane with most characters. If a character has the tools to pressure Gabranth then he will likely lose the match after having gotten into exmode somewhere between 0-2 times in a match.

@FruNya: I cant comment on the WHOLE spreadsheet, but I will say that Vaan's matchups are NOT that good.

[FruNya]

@FruNya: I cant comment on the WHOLE spreadsheet, but I will say that Vaan's matchups are NOT that good.

why? o.o write to me your Vaan's match-up in pm plz.

[Emperor Penguin]

As a Garland mainer, I don't think I've seen any characters that give him any real headaches. He deals insane BRV damage, has both vertical and horizontal range, has very good defensive options, and he uses both EX and AST very well. If he isn't top-tier then he should at the very least be upper mid.

Also, Onion Knight's Turbo-Hit alone should be enough to make him mid-tier at least. It's ridiculously fast, has good range, has billions of active frames, has a large hitbox, has an HP link that tracks, and recovers pretty quick. If people consider Beat Fang imbalanced then I dunno wtf Turbo-Hit is.

[Seraph Sephiroth]

Onion knight has lag time even after his stupid fast brv attacks. And people can assist out of his hp links and counterattack him which is frustrating. At best I'm thinking onion knight is low mid tier at best. Garland is definitely not top tier but he probably has some high tier potential.

[Wotan]

I personally think that while tier lists are not impossible, builds and especially stages are variables that slightly affect the match-ups, making them very difficult to calculate.

That said everyone is entitled to their own opinions and gut feelings. As a Cloud mainer (and I mained him since the first Dissidia) I say Cloud, while not top tier, is definitively above the mid. His moves are faster and got better tracking. It's true that he doesn't have aerial long range attacks, but a lot of his attacks wall rushes, making it very esy to assist combo with. Most characters are limited to assist combo HPAs from a bravery attack, but Cloud can, starting with a bravery link, chain together 2 HPAs that both wall rushes, and with a good number of hits, making a break likely enough. In short, when he hits he hurts you, and he can hit better than in the first Dissidia. This compensates for his shortfalls.

Generically speaking, I think that every character with a thunder like attack is definitely above the mid. This kind of move is even better than shields.

[Lord Shmeckie]

As a Garland mainer, I don't think I've seen any characters that give him any real headaches. He deals insane BRV damage, has both vertical and horizontal range, has very good defensive options, and he uses both EX and AST very well. If he isn't top-tier then he should at the very least be upper mid.

He ain't top tier, but he's definitely gonna be high on the list, that's for damn sure.

Though, like I said, he's got nothing against Exdeath, and Onion Knight just gives him migranes.

[Balguna]

Onion knight has lag time even after his stupid fast brv attacks. And people can assist out of his hp links and counterattack him which is frustrating. At best I'm thinking onion knight is low mid tier at best. Garland is definitely not top tier but he probably has some high tier potential.

OK's HP Links are near inescaple with assists unless you do so at the very end (just before the HP hit). By that time, OK would have recovered from his attack.

And while he does have lag time after a whiff, it's not nearly as bad as Terra/Tidus/Shantotto for most of their attacks. And I find that Turbo Hit isn't usually the problem, it's Thunder, because it's a lot more telegraphable and is really meant to be used as a dodge punisher.

OK's big issue for me is actually his extremely limited range. He has probably the worst vertical tracking in the game, since only Comet has any vertical range to really speak of, and it's so Assist punishable it's not even funny.Another thing is that blocking is his anathaema. He can't get past Electroshield, Knight's Lance, Turn Guard without resorting to HP attacks, and characters like Ultimecia can just stay above him and out-range him.

OK thrives on enclosed arenas. Give him something like Pandaemonium or Phantom Train where he doesn't really have to worry about vertical distances, and things like Firaga become more threatening. OK's easy to use, but he has such a steep mindgaming requirement to make up for his flaws (no vertical tracking, limited and punishable guard crushers, low jump height) that he needs every ounce of his perks to work for him.

OK has potential, just like every character in the game. He's the fastest character in the game outside of EX Mode, has great synergy with both Assists and EX, everything links to HP attacks, and can actually BRV rape if wanted (all his BRV to BRV attacks have ~40 multiplier). It's just a big uphill battle when compared to a lot of characters in this game, many of which are practically hard counters.

I personally think that while tier lists are not impossible, builds and especially stages are variables that slightly affect the match-ups, making them very difficult to calculate.

That said everyone is entitled to their own opinions and gut feelings. As a Cloud mainer (and I mained him since the first Dissidia) I say Cloud, while not top tier, is definitively above the mid. His moves are faster and got better tracking. It's true that he doesn't have aerial long range attacks, but a lot of his attacks wall rushes, making it very esy to assist combo with. Most characters are limited to assist combo HPAs from a bravery attack, but Cloud can, starting with a bravery link, chain together 2 HPAs that both wall rushes, and with a good number of hits, making a break likely enough. In short, when he hits he hurts you, and he can hit better than in the first Dissidia. This compensates for his shortfalls.

Generically speaking, I think that every character with a thunder like attack is definitely above the mid. This kind of move is even better than shields.

What kind of Thunder though? Firion Thunder, OK Thunder, Garland Thundaga, Terra Thundara, Kefka ZTT/LST, WoL's White Fang, or Lightning Thunder/THUNDA-GAAA?