Last edited by Narolf; 10-27-2012 at 11:02 PM.
What exactly was the point of this thread to begin with? I'm curious
I think it's a speculation thread, although that doesn't make much sense because a Dissidia 3 is never gonna happen.
Or maybe he wants us to use hacks to make a Dissidia 2.5, kinda like Brawl +. Which is a terrible idea because I don't have a hacked psp
Heh. If they were to continue the Dissidia franchise, I'd want them to completely change the formula if I'm honest. My highly improbable, controversial, but honest opinion:
I say make it a traditional 2d fighter, hand Arc System Works the license, let them choose a handful of characters who would fit this gameplay style + be most fun to play (I couldn't care less whether each FF gets a fair representation), and let these experienced fighting game developers do what they do best. I don't care what fan favourite characters are excluded; if we ended up with a roster like the one pictured above, I for one would be more than happy.
Also, abandon the rpg side of the game, or make that aspect exclusive to the story mode. For a shallow fighting game, Dissidia sure is demanding on newcomers, asking them to spend considerable hours before they reach a level where they can even compete at all online. The pre-built characters don't exactly help seeing as they are rubbish. Restrict the rpg aspect to the main story, and people can jump straight into PvP if that's where their interest lies. Making the game available on home consoles would increase accessibility too.
And as an afterthought, traditional arcade mode with individual endings please. As an FF fanboy, I want to see what happens when the bad guys win, rather than slog through the sub-fanfiction garbage we've been subjected to thus far.
A 2 or 3-D fighter would be pretty neat (thinking of either Street Fighter or Tekken for the bases, as I believe they're the best of their genres). It would be a lot easier to include a larger quantity of characters, since this would hopefully be for a console and MAYBE ported to portable PSVita (much like MVC3 is about to be)
All in all, I enjoyed Dissidia the way it's been so far, but it definitely needs to be different if they take it any further.
Though apart, forever connected.
Above sig courtesy of Kayarine, sigs in spoilers courtesy of Kurayami and Waffles. Thanks to Mizu for the sketch of Airal (my avatar)!
If you're going 2D, I think it would require a more Smash-esq formula to give the space needed for some of those over-the-top moves characters would inevitably have. I think toning them down to fit in a traditional 2D/3D arena would water down the uniqueness FF has to offer.
In the 3D aspect, I think Dissidia does a good job at its core. I mean, it DOES work... well, here's what I'd do :X
All the RPG crap is gone. Choose omni, away, or toward dash types beginning of match. 100% of your focus to be divided between terrain and your opponent - no builds, no summons, no cores, no abilities, NO LUCK.
Speed up all moves ... slow brave attacks ~15f startup and fast ones like SS ~4-5f startups. HPs mostly stay the same... maybe slightly faster (but not by much) so they can still be dealt with on reaction but serve perfectly as block punishers. This makes the game more reliant on sound judgment and discourages turtling for easy hits.
Dodging has no way to cancel the vulnerable frames - no longer a free escape... especially for characters like Jecht. Kills needless air dodging, encourages ground characters to be ground characters, lets characters like Zidane and Kuja show their aerial superiority.
Block doesn't stagger, it can be held for a period of time before becoming disabled to "recharge". Block moves like Exdeath/Sephiroth/Jecht/CoD/etc put the opponent into a stagger state and the resulting combo is "counter" state combos, though. Adding risk/reward to their blocking techniques. With the faster moves, it'll be harder to land them, too.
Counter attacks are your only damage boost and it's just a straight % increase in damage as well as increased hit stun that works like you see in other fighting games. (Makes some combos possible)
Increase dash speeds.
Chase as is except doesn't build any meter at all (more on meter later).
Still need to choose what moves to equip in what slots.
Make cooldown reasonable in that it works with hitstun for combos in a way that players can get creative - relying solely on move properties. Add in a rule that the same move can't be used twice until the opponent returns to a controllable state again (infinite protection).
Take out links to HPs and make those HP attacks tight links in combos (hitstun from certain moves is large enough to allow for one/two HPs to slip in if you time them ~1-3f range).
This means a better online structure is also needed.
Assists have very similar damage - it becomes what you can/can't combo into/from as to why you'll choose certain assists. Can't use assists while you're mid attack (or in cooldown).
EX Mode becomes 3 bars - 1 bar to have a special version of a move - generally reducing cooldown and increasing combo/HP linking potential or increasing damage. Someone like Kefka could instead get his double spells for some moves for example as something different. 2 bars to break out of a combo (both players blow away)/use assists for extended combos. 3 bars to use an EX Burst but all characters get a pre-EX Burst animation that needs to hit whether in a combo or not... adheres to the same rules as normal attacks (has startup/cooldown/active can only combo with certain moves etc).
Meter builds about 3 bars for each player over the duration of 80% of a match. Hitting and getting hit are all that builds. The first hit in a combo makes the most difference in meter building. Slower the move, more meter it will build on successful hits for the attacker/less for the receiver. Vice versa for fast attacks (low building for attacker, higher for defender). Attacker will always build at minimal double more meter. (So Sword Slash is really fast and might build "12" bar units, and the opponent only gets "6" bar units. Climhazzard might build "50" bar units, but the opponent only gets "10" because of risk/reward for example).
Stage bravery doesn't exist how it is now... it's a flat, smaller rate like 500. Everyone starts with 1000 brave - while in break, all hits on you are in "counter" status. If you land hits, they're also considered counter. Average characters deal ~350 brave in "high level" combos. Brave Kings eating over 500. Weak characters with high combo ability or versatility ~200.
Some characters (like Gabranth, Exdeath for example) would need big overhauls in how they work because of the new system but overall, I think this is how I would like my Dissidia: Fast, aggressive, over-the-top, but still fun. I think 3D is ideal considering things like UJS, Starfall, Braver, magic casters... etc etc - it suits them all very well to have that big, open space. The system just needs to be tweaked to make people WANT to stay close to each other and land those attacks - or in Kefka/Terra/etc case, space well and land those attacks.
I think that... overall... would make me very happy. Of course, this is just personal preference.
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Currently Playing: Persona 4 Arena
Ok I have a subject I think we'll enjoy that fits in here. What is wrong with your particular characters style of fighting in dissidia? I personally think they could have done sephiroth better, he's supposed to be a great swordsman with amazing range due to the size of his sword, mixed in with a few magical attacks (since in ff7 he's mastered them all). He shouldn't be 90% mage, but its like SE was going for that with the moveset they gave him this game.
real gud dat imagem~ you deserve +1, my beloved narolf
[Relentless Flow +]
"No matter what happens, I'll keep on moving. Until this life runs out of me, I'll keep on walking"
Question: What effect would it have on the game if you could NOT build assist after using your final jump (hit or wiff) until you land on the ground and reset your jumps again? Possibly even experiencing "accelerated depletion" once you use that final jump (depletion starts as if you haven't attacked and attacks/being attacked does not cancel the effect - only landing on the ground does)
Would this be adequate to separate the ground characters from the aerial characters without causing severe imbalance? Would it make EX more viable again for those relying on SbS? Would SbS become more important to different characters?
I know it certainly gives characters with glide exclusive to their EX mode more reason to focus on that. It makes aerial characters certainly aerial superior. It kills needless aerial dodging if you're using assists (instantly uses jumps). It means ground warriors can be a little more patient in waiting for opponents to return to the ground (the almost certainly have to).
What kind of game would DDFF have been if this was the case? Would it be more playable? Fun? Viable? Higher skill level? I wonder...
Find me in the IRC and challenge me! I'd love to play against you!
Currently Playing: Persona 4 Arena
Despite all its flaws, its "non-competitiveness" and its pure rip-off aspect, Dissidia remains an UFO in the genre of fighting games and that makes it oddly addictive for me, more than for its fan-servicing. While a hypothetical third installment as a side-scrolled fighter is wished by many and more than just X-Zone, it isn't something I look forward to for one, as the originality of Dissidia precisely came from the fact that the combat is in 3D, requires pre-battle preparations and heavily favors defense overall. Such format can be viable and has enough room for a more refined competitive so long it is enhanced and corrected but more importantly, so long it is made more sophisticated.
It isn't hype, it isn't complex enough that just watching clever moves and tactics can be thrilling.
That is really where this series was slacking: not enough inputs, not enough advanced techniques... too bland, too simple. As such, I'm spinning one or two ideas on what my ideal Dissidia would contain.
Definitely has to get closer with the style of traditional fighters while keeping its flavor, the "campiness" in 3D environments without risking to make characters too much alike (Dissidia doesn't have any clones for the record, all characters being very distinct from another). It has to incorporate combinations of inputs as such while allowing a greater variety of attacks altogether, rather than just safe pokes with a few slower (yet more powerful) attacks here and there to surprise the opponent and break through the ice. To put it in a nutshell, a perfect character has to follow this pattern:Spoiler:+Spoiler:+Spoiler:Tifa for the inputs before the attack has been landed, Jecht for the inputs once the attack has been landed and Lightning for the inputs in-between, but moreover for the large attacks' panel. Such pattern also applies to mages, except that there is a greater focus on connecting spells with DC-combos since the Jecht's type is kind of lacking when it comes to them. Speaking of DC-combos, they would also require a more "on-point" timing, with spans of dodge-cancelable frames rather than a single start-up dodge cancelable frame. Example:  with  being the dodge-cancelable frames and  the non-dodge-cancelable frames.
DC combos are the only advanced techniques DDFF has, along with a few rather tricky assist-combos which could have been more rewarding damage-wise. That is a point DFF surpasses DDFF at in a way, thanks to all the glitches due to Ex-Armor (Ex-Links, Ex-Splices, etc.) which turned out to be akin to advanced techniques more by the time.
Obviously the series has to continue on consoles to achieve higher standards. Additional trigger-buttons (L2, R2) could serve to input more attacks (similarly to how it is done in KH with magic spells) while the right analog stick would serve for camera's rotations to leave room for the D-pad. That last one would serve for all use of items inputted with combinations similarly to those of trigger-buttons. The game would allow more customization overall than just five archetypes of builds. To further the RPG part, there would also be a metagame within the metagame including elementals and their strengths/weaknesses. I could go on and go on, but the bottom line of it all is that it would be 70% KH-ified and 30% traditional fighter.
Finally, on to changes more down to earth. Barring specific buffs/nerfs to characters' attacks, DDFF could surely use a few tweaks in its system as a whole. Theoretically, all the following can be achieve through hacks, so you can always believe...
~ assist-gauge darkens when the opponent is wallrushed
~ DFF SnL; can't be killed with FAD, gets active even faster
~ faster dashes' speeds
~ Veysey's idea for the assist-building (see above)
~ no reset of the assist-building's rate after a dodge
~ assist-building's rate greatly decreases after the first whiff, meaning you have to vary your attacks even more to build the gauge
Last edited by Narolf; 10-27-2012 at 11:03 PM.