Valorous: Vance's replays

**Vance** · 10-16-2011 01:20 AM

Hello and welcome everyone to Vance Vin Valor's replay thread. As most of you are well aware, I'm a total noob at the pvp side of this game. The main purpose of this thread is to show my failures and fish for constructive criticism in an attempt to stop sucking so damn much.

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Before we get into the matches themselves, here is a list of problems in my game that I have discovered on my own:

Spoiler:

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And now for the actual replays. These first four replays were all taken the same day (last Sunday evening)

Match one: Vance (WoL) vs Paru (Kain) [this match was played under a rule set Veysey made that nerfed assist and buffed EX. I know he posted it around here, but I couldn't find it for a link]
Notes on the match: I was not familiar with Kain Jumping and not coming down. Accidentally used my summon too early. Missed an assist chase at 2:21 because the game lagged when I broke the guy. I have no idea why my Ascension didn't keep going at 4:18- I was spamming O. Almost had him.

Spoiler:

Match two: Vance vs Paru (Gilgamesh Mirror Match) [Also under Veysey rules]
Notes: This was both my very first time using Gilgamesh in pvp and my first time fighting Gilgamesh in pvp. WAY too much Missile, the match probably would have been a lot closer if not for that.

Spoiler:

Match three: Vance (Gilgamesh) vs RDFMASTER (Squall)
Notes: RDF spent most of the match throwing me around like a rag-doll. I managed to shake the stupid off at the end, but it was too little too late. I also managed to fuck myself again with stupid Missile usage. I hate that I forgot to save the Gil vs Cloud match I had with RDF, I think I came closer in that one.

Spoiler:

Match four: Vance (WoL) vs Dante (CoD)
Notes: I have no idea who Dante is. Why don't you walk right into Feint Particle Beam again, moron? Got lucky with several 0-Form misses. EX drain on the Jecht assist is ridiculous. Screwed myself bad at the end with a misplaced Radiant Sword.

Spoiler:

**ChaosMuramasa** · 10-16-2011 04:13 PM

First off, good stuff noting your own mistakes and accidents first. I feel that not enough people actually take the time to reflect on their performance and do that, so kudos.

Against Kain, I noticed a few moments where Paru came down with Jump and missed you but you were still out of range for a counterattack. However, you did have an Assist Gauge. If a Kain lands Jump and misses you, you can Assist Punish it very easily. Don't do this if the Kain has a Gauge to change on though, because then they'll just Assist Change and lock your Assist.

Another general note; you may want to skip out on Bitter End if the enemy has the Gauge to change or block it. WoL is stationary and unsafe during it, stuck in the animation if they change. As such, many characters can time and land a counterattack since they have more than enough ample time. Don't be afraid to skip out on the HP damage and just go for the BRV finisher for your own safety.

Another note on WoL: the timing to get Kuja to connect and follow-through while still getting Bitter End's HP hit is ridiculously strict. If you want to do that, you should try it with the Sephiroth Assist against an AI dummy; it's infinitely easier with him. If you wanna stick with Kuja, then don't do it unless you Wall Rush with Bitter End OR if you know for certain that Kuja's damage + the second Rising Buckler and Bitter End will break them for certain.

You're already aware of how you messed up with Radiant Sword, so I won't capitalize on that. You already know to be careful with it, so there's no need to beat it into your head.

You seem to already well recognize your errors with Gilgamesh to an extent which I feel like I don't have to comment on it too much since you already know what you're doing wrong. Furthermore, I really don't play Gilgamesh myself, so I can't say much here.

That's what I can comment on after skimming through each video and looking at specific parts. Hope this helped.

**Vance** · 10-16-2011 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by ChaosMuramasa

First off, good stuff noting your own mistakes and accidents first. I feel that not enough people actually take the time to reflect on their performance and do that, so kudos.

Thank you. Not much sense in asking others for help when I'm not even helping myself.

Against Kain, I noticed a few moments where Paru came down with Jump and missed you but you were still out of range for a counterattack. However, you did have an Assist Gauge. If a Kain lands Jump and misses you, you can Assist Punish it very easily. Don't do this if the Kain has a Gauge to change on though, because then they'll just Assist Change and lock your Assist.

Good to know, I'll try to remember that.

Another general note; you may want to skip out on Bitter End if the enemy has the Gauge to change or block it. WoL is stationary and unsafe during it, stuck in the animation if they change. As such, many characters can time and land a counterattack since they have more than enough ample time. Don't be afraid to skip out on the HP damage and just go for the BRV finisher for your own safety.

Yeah, I was thinking I was doing that too much.

Another note on WoL: the timing to get Kuja to connect and follow-through while still getting Bitter End's HP hit is ridiculously strict. If you want to do that, you should try it with the Sephiroth Assist against an AI dummy; it's infinitely easier with him. If you wanna stick with Kuja, then don't do it unless you Wall Rush with Bitter End OR if you know for certain that Kuja's damage + the second Rising Buckler and Bitter End will break them for certain.

Coincidentally, I was using Kuja because I'm still practicing with Sephiroth. I didn't want to take him online yet since I don't have the timing down. As much as I love Kuja as a character, I want a little more diversity in my characters' assists. So I try to take the non-Kuja option whenever one is viable.

You're already aware of how you messed up with Radiant Sword, so I won't capitalize on that. You already know to be careful with it, so there's no need to beat it into your head.

Yeah, I did my homework, but I got too happy with it in that last match.

You seem to already well recognize your errors with Gilgamesh to an extent which I feel like I don't have to comment on it too much since you already know what you're doing wrong. Furthermore, I really don't play Gilgamesh myself, so I can't say much here.

That's what I can comment on after skimming through each video and looking at specific parts. Hope this helped.

Yes, I found this quite helpful. Thank you for your time and effort.

**LonelyGaruga** · 10-16-2011 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by ChaosMuramasa

Furthermore, I really don't play Gilgamesh myself, so I can't say much here.

And that's where I can help ^_^

Yeah, less Missile usage, definitely. Also, I think you should use Double Trouble more. 1:14 on the Gilgamesh vs. Squall fight is an excellent example of good Double Trouble usage. When you and your opponent are dodging each other's attacks repeatedly, like when you and Paru were exchanging Tsubamegaeshi's, Double Trouble would be a good move to use as well in that situation, due to being able to be canceled into another move during the cooldown.

Also, I suppose you could learn assist combo timings. In particular, I think you should learn to assist combo off Tsubamegaeshi without wall rushing, as well as Dual Thrust/Double Trouble. That's pretty much all I can get from the replays that you haven't already covered. Mostly, I think just experience in PvP will allow you to correct most of your mistakes. You have a good idea of what you're doing wrong, and that will help you improve much faster than otherwise possible.

**Narolf** · 10-16-2011 09:24 PM

this match was played under a rule set Veysey made that nerfed assist and buffed EX. I know he posted it around here, but I couldn't find it for a link

http://dissidiaforums.com/showthread...l=1#post308895

**Vance** · 10-17-2011 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Narolf

this match was played under a rule set Veysey made that nerfed assist and buffed EX. I know he posted it around here, but I couldn't find it for a link

http://dissidiaforums.com/showthread...l=1#post308895

Ah yes, that was it. Thank you. We didn't use Veysey's equipment rules though. All of Paru's characters had normal EX builds and mine were using their normal "default" builds.

Originally Posted by LonelyGaruga

Yeah, less Missile usage, definitely. Also, I think you should use Double Trouble more. 1:14 on the Gilgamesh vs. Squall fight is an excellent example of good Double Trouble usage. When you and your opponent are dodging each other's attacks repeatedly, like when you and Paru were exchanging Tsubamegaeshi's, Double Trouble would be a good move to use as well in that situation, due to being able to be canceled into another move during the cooldown.

Less Missile, moar Double Trouble. Got it.

Also, I suppose you could learn assist combo timings. In particular, I think you should learn to assist combo off Tsubamegaeshi without wall rushing, as well as Dual Thrust/Double Trouble. That's pretty much all I can get from the replays that you haven't already covered. Mostly, I think just experience in PvP will allow you to correct most of your mistakes. You have a good idea of what you're doing wrong, and that will help you improve much faster than otherwise possible.

Intesting. So what hit do you call the assist on? Just making a logical guess I'd say it's the first hit on Double Trouble and the next to last hit (last one before the wall rush) on Tsubamegaeshi, would that be correct?

Thanks for your help.

**LonelyGaruga** · 10-17-2011 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Vance

Intesting. So what hit do you call the assist on? Just making a logical guess I'd say it's the first hit on Double Trouble and the next to last hit (last one before the wall rush) on Tsubamegaeshi, would that be correct?

Ah, yeah, forgot to specify that. Yes, the first hit on Double Trouble and Dual Thrust, and the second half of Tsubamegaeshi. For Tsubamegaeshi, I personally call Sephiroth at the same time that I begin the second half of the attack. This calls Sephiroth a little early, but is very easy to time. Also, regardless of your timing, you can't assist combo off of Tsubamegaeshi if you're near the ceiling unless you combo off of the first hit only, because Sephiroth will be level with your opponent when he spawns, and Tsubamegaeshi combos by launching the opponent into Sephiroth's attack.

Once you land Sephiroth, Hurricane and Sword Dance are your HP moves to use afterwards. Hurricane can't be punished by assist changing out of it and generates large amounts of EX, but can be punished with Recovery Attack near the ceiling, due to its almost entirely vertical knockback. Sword Dance requires a delay before initiating the assist chase, and can be punished after an assist change, but wall rushes. Also, regardless of which move you use, if you intend to assist combo off of Reaper, you will need to delay the assist chase a little.

During an assist attack, you can still attack your opponent too. If you're very close to the ground during Reaper, you can land a full Tsubamegaeshi and still be able to assist chase, but you won't have enough time to connect Sword Dance afterwards. If you want to do that, then you can use the first part of Double Trouble twice instead, or once if you were a bit of a distance away from Sephiroth and had to dash toward him. As for Sudden Cruelty, unless you used Tsubamegaeshi to start the combo, you can land the first hit of Double Trouble in the middle of the attack and still have enough time to perform either Hurricane or Sword Dance after the assist chase.

Hope that all helps :3

**Vance** · 10-17-2011 01:40 AM

Nifty, I'll go troll the computer and see what I can do. The extra attacks before the assist chase might be a little advanced for me atm, but I'll give it a try. Thank you.

**Vance** · 02-05-2012 12:07 AM

Alrighty folks, Vance is finally back in the game (Nevermind the fact that he was only in the game for one day before). I had a First to 10 match with Kuroraikiri last night (which he predictably swept 10-0) which I used as a way to jump back into the game feet first and as a chance to try out several character that I had not previously taken online. In particular, I was happy with the loosing efforts I made with Cloud and Zidane, so I think I'll be adding them to my list of subs.

Now, I've got a couple of replays here to show. Both of which coming from the extra matches Kuro and I had after FT10 was over.

Zidane (Vance) v. Squall (Kuro)
This was my third pvp match [ever] using Zidane (I used him in the FT10 against Gil, and in another post FT10 against Squall which I forgot to save). I missed several good opportunities to punish with Vortex after avoiding Beat Fang or Ariel Circle by simply dropping. I'll have to watch out for those in the future. Also on Vortex, I often used it to gain/maintain altitude after my jumps were used and Kuro managed to punish me for it a few times. I'll have to be more careful about that. Somewhere around 3:40ish to 3:50ish I should have let him hit me to get and EXR for an HP while his assist gauge was locked. At 3:55 I was trying to combo my Sephiroth assist off of Scoop Art's stun, but got hit by a Fire Barrett at the same time. It really sucked having all BRV, but never landing an HP with it. Especially considering how much healing that would have been (Succubus Soul, EXP>HP, Growth Egg x2).

Spoiler:

Ultimecia (Vance) v. Flow-Totto *beatboxes* (Kuro)
So I finally have a replay up of me actually playing my main. Apparently, while playing against the computer, I've developed the habit of dodging to stay in the air. This was my biggest bane in the FT10 as Kuro dodge-punished me A LOT. The problem was even bigger with Ultimecia as dodging moved me away from my lance-wall. My Ulti matches post FT10 were mainly devoted to trying to override my muscle memory. Aside from that my biggest issue with Ultimecia (as Kuro and I discussed after the match) is not properly utilizing Shockwave Pulsar and Apocalypse (though the one time I did use pulsar was to great effect). I loved this match because as it progressed I grew much more accustomed to Ultimecia's controls. Playing her began to feel more natural, which made it easier to clear my mind and make better decisions. I also got a progressively better idea as to how to play Ulti against Shantotto.

Spoiler: