Americans against Affordable Health Care threaten to move to Canada...

[Zodiark]

Well, overwork explains all the fucked up families we have in America now :3

[LonelyGaruga]

Slightly disturbed by the level of ignorance in this thread. There are people all over the world that can be classified as lazy. Americans aren't lazy in any way more or less as people in other countries. In fact America is one of the most overworked nation statistically. Unemployment happens and countries do go through phases of rising and falling unemployment -- the problem is no one wants to really hire due to risk taking in after about the 2008 mark. In fact all these news about unemployment is so blown out of proportion and this fear mongering has got everyone losing their shit.

I feel that the parts that I have bolded are particularly important here. I'm honestly somewhat annoyed with how much generalizing has occurred in this thread. People aren't researching enough here (as clearly evident with Draec's post, which brings up quite a few important statistics that are extremely important to know on this subject). I dislike it when people try to talk about something they don't know enough about to be in a position to talk about it like an expert. Statistically speaking, Americans aren't lazy. Thinking they honestly are generally lazy and using that as an argument is an excellent example of this ignorance that I detest. It would have been far better to have, as Draec did, look into the subject more thoroughly than just posting about what makes it to the news. It should be obvious (and very likely is for many of us here) that the news programs have a tendency to broadcast negative subjects more than positive ones, as those are typically more pressing or concerning. The news rarely tells the full story, and if anyone that was posting all that nonsense about Americans being lazy and how other countries are paragons to the work system need to stop being lazy themselves and actually research what they're talking about instead of taking the media's portrayal of the world at face value. Of course America would seem like the only place that suffers from these problems-why would the news mention all of the problems of other countries? There's no point for many Americans to know about another country's problems unless it has a possibility of affecting America as well. The news has more important things (for Americans) to be covering. We don't need to know about Canada or the UK's problems on anything more than an infrequent occurrence, it's America's unemployment rates and other problems that are more relevant, and thus discussed more frequently, making them look more pressing.

Mind you, I don't consider this even remotely logical to think in the first place. Anyone with a lick of common sense should have already figured out everything I brought up and recognize that the news doesn't provide the full story on the subject of unemployment. There's a lot more depth than many people are made aware of if they don't bother trying to find this information for themselves, and it should be easy enough to realize this and simply not concern yourself with it if you aren't worried enough to research it yourself.

I can think of a couple of legitimate reasons to be concerned about these, but the opinions voiced by those here talking of the laziness of Americans and how hard working other countries here have clearly not done enough research to know the full story. I would go so far as to say that they should just avoid talking about this until they research more into this and have actual concerns about unemployment, like trying to find methods to increase the number of jobs available, instead of the useless, inaccurate pessimism I've seen too much of in this thread. Don't cling to stereotypes and media feedback. Search for the real facts and statistics.

[Cor Leonis]

Be prepared for a wall of text, folks.

Of course we were generalizing; did we ever say otherwise? The point was assistance abuse happens. I'll be the first to admit, though, we did blow it out of proportion by lingering on the subject. Not everyone abuses the system; however, the abusers were the only ones we talked about. I did this for a reason, though...

These abusers contribute to our overall debt. Now, I realize assistance abusers are not the only cause of America's lost trillions. Everyone could debate whether the cause of debt is war, business moving to other countries, the assistance abuses, et al. The point is America is trillions of USD in debt; a simple Google search could tell you that.

Now, assuming not everyone has read my post on page one, we cannot support national healthcare financially. To implement a tax would either drain the tax payers dry or would not have the proper funding for it to work. How do I know this? The cost of health insurance in general.

...But the cost of health insurance is the basic reasoning behind national healthcare. No, not everyone can pay for it or gain its benefits through their workplace. Unfortunately, that's just how life works; it's a harsh truth.

Then how the hell should it be funded? To be honest, I haven't a damn clue. A tax is the only logical thing. Don't even say "higher taxes on the wealthy"; America already taxes fairly based on a fixed percentage of your income and should be kept that way.

Now, I'm not completely against national healthcare. I would love for the less fortunate to have access to a doctor without the fear of a horrendous bill. I just happen to think now isn't the time to implement this program. Once America solves its debt crisis, I'll consider shifting my opinion on national healthcare.

This honestly belongs in another thread, but I'll say it here anyways. The unemployment "dilemma" is also a fear caused by the media. I see plenty of job postings everyday. What? Your degree in art isn't for working at a retail store? Well, suck it up. A job, in no shape or form, has to relate to your chosen career field; it's a source of income.

[TWOxACROSS]

CHOCOBO...I don't know how old you are, but I'm pretty sure you're still just young enough to not understand how the real world works.

America is a shit-hole when it comes to health care. We have half the country fighting against the idea of free/affordable health care simply on the principle that "they don't want the government in it" or, my favorite, since it's referred to as "socialized healthcare" that we'll suddenly turn into socialists/communists. Even though pretty much every other first world country has had socialized healthcare for...ever(?) and they're doing pretty well.

The problem is that insurance is a gigantic business here, and as such, retarded Americans believe that government should not have any hand in the regulation of a business. Two things wrong with that, considering most Americans' health plan is "plan to stay healthy," and that the insurance business is not there to help you, they're there to make money. They want healthy people to keep paying to protect them against the what-ifs, and they sure as hell don't like people who are sick, because they have to help pay for their medical expenses.

You know what one of the biggest changes is with "ObamaCare?" If you have a pre-existing condition, you can still get insurance to help you take care of it. A lot of insurance companies don't do that - because they don't like sick people.

-------------------------

Anyway, as per the topic, it's absolutely retarded that the people who are against "ObamaCare," a system which tries to help get more people free or affordable insurance, want to move to Canada, a country that has exactly what they were fighting against. Although, they'll actually be more shit outta luck, because it'll be three years before they can apply for citizenship and get that free healthcare, and they'll struggle for those three years...a lot.

[Nexus_Nocturnal]

CHOCOBO...I don't know how old you are, but I'm pretty sure you're still just young enough to not understand how the real world works.

America is a shit-hole when it comes to health care. We have half the country fighting against the idea of free/affordable health care simply on the principle that "they don't want the government in it" or, my favorite, since it's referred to as "socialized healthcare" that we'll suddenly turn into socialists/communists. Even though pretty much every other first world country has had socialized healthcare for...ever(?) and they're doing pretty well.

The problem is that insurance is a gigantic business here, and as such, retarded Americans believe that government should not have any hand in the regulation of a business. Two things wrong with that, considering most Americans' health plan is "plan to stay healthy," and that the insurance business is not there to help you, they're there to make money. They want healthy people to keep paying to protect them against the what-ifs, and they sure as hell don't like people who are sick, because they have to help pay for their medical expenses.

You know what one of the biggest changes is with "ObamaCare?" If you have a pre-existing condition, you can still get insurance to help you take care of it. A lot of insurance companies don't do that - because they don't like sick people.

-------------------------

Anyway, as per the topic, it's absolutely retarded that the people who are against "ObamaCare," a system which tries to help get more people free or affordable insurance, want to move to Canada, a country that has exactly what they were fighting against. Although, they'll actually be more shit outta luck, because it'll be three years before they can apply for citizenship and get that free healthcare, and they'll struggle for those three years...a lot.

This is what I always hated about American health insurance. They don't do their job. I suppose this is to be expected in the country where our CEO to Employee pay ratio is 500:1. This is insane considering the country with the second largest gap is Venezuela with a 50:1 pay ratio. Why are we so damn greedy!?

[Kirin]

Those are just the Americans who want nothing to do with any policies that seem to have communist vibe to it. Just damn ignorance to be honest.

My free healthcare is looking pretty good right now.
NHS is a good thing no matter how you look at it.

[Cookies]

This is what I always hated about American health insurance. They don't do their job. I suppose this is to be expected in the country where our CEO to Employee pay ratio is 500:1. This is insane considering the country with the second largest gap is Venezuela with a 50:1 pay ratio. Why are we so damn greedy!?

It's like that everywhere though, the top executives pay themselves staggering amounts of money (here they do it in bonuses so it doesn't show up on statistics) when they haven't achieved anything in years and they don't even keep the place running. We've had scandals about that in the UK for the last couple years now and everytime the shareholders (theoretically the ones in charge of payroll, but not really) vote not to let them have their giant bonuses they keep them anyway and give some retarded statement about how it's good for the economy or they really need that money. The point is just that rich people suck everywhere you look.

Those are just the Americans who want nothing to do with any policies that seem to have communist vibe to it. Just damn ignorance to be honest.

My free healthcare is looking pretty good right now.
NHS is a good thing no matter how you look at it.

It's not really communist though, and they forget that they were the ones that voted in a left wing President (hell, in most places in the media the Democrats are more popular).

I can agree with that second thing though. I broke my arm, the treatment was free, and now I'm doing physiotherapy and guess what, it's free! Whoop.

[TWOxACROSS]

Well, I wouldn't say it's everywhere. There was a CEO in Japan, for (I forget) company, who did away with his bonuses, makes the same amount as the people working floors below him, he rides the bus to work, and brings his own lunches from home to eat in the cafeteria with the rest of his employees.

Good on him, and it makes every other CEO look like a gigantic ass-hat.

[smithshane]

i am no suprise that Canada is the United State's hat...

[jordyboardy]

As a European citizen with government based healthcare I have always found it extremely weird that people could be against it.
I remember being in the hospital in the us while I was on holiday and a woman came up to the counter and asked, "what are the symptoms of swine flu? I'm affraid I might be infected" (big deal back then). The man behind the desk said: "would you like to see a doctor so he can check if you are healthy or not?" The woman replied "no, it's ok I can't afford it".

I was astonished, there I was sitting in a hospital, not worrying at all about the bills because I knew my insurance would pay for everything, and this woman didn't have the money to see a doctor. Now this might not have been a very important issue, but what if somebody broke their arm and couldn't afford a doctor. I mean, as an outsider, the us health care system looks like a second (or even third) world situation.

I remember a representative of the republican party who had a daughter that was chronically ill. He used her in some debates and said that with a lot of help from the best doctors she had been able to survive and live a relatively happy life. He then said he was strongly against obamacare. So basically what he is saying, if you are rich you can get your daughter to a hospital and if you are poor, well, your child will die.


Also I think the main problem with the U.S. is the attitude of the people, they're too self sentered. Also a lot of them seem to think their country is still the best country in the world and the best place to live. Well guess what folks, it's not, sweden, norway and finland are the among the top 5. Why? Because the people that live there are more equal than anywhere else. People pay tons of taxes there but everyone has top notch healthcare, long holidays and excellent infrastructure, as well as free museums etc. According to many studies the key to happines is not having much money, it's having around the same amount as your neighbours.

That said the only reason that the u.s. hasn't turned into a second world country is that the dollar is the main currency on international markets. However this is also the reason why their currency is still so high, leading towards poor export and an ever-growing defecit. Normally when a country spends more than they have the following thing happens

More money spent(read made)>currency value goes down>export grows>more money is coming in>currency value goes up & deficit gets smaller.

in case of the US, this is happening:
more money spent(read made)>currency value doesn't go down due to international markets(people need dollars because it's the main currency for markets)>export doesn't grow>deficit grows

When international markets no longer need the dollar and instead start using other currencies such as the euro or the yen, the US will collapse for a while and the dollar will drop a lot. However that gives the country an opportunity to compete on the international markets, which will boost the economy.