Matchup Tests

**K´Genesis** · 10-22-2009 02:36 PM

Since our match-up thread is heading towards oblivion and theories only do not support a good match-up chart, I´m proposing a heavy study on Squall´s match-ups.
For that, it takes a player who is a bit more than just good with Squall and that can use other characters at the same level(or better) as Squall. Since we need both characters to play at their most comfortable style, the stage needs to be neutral. So, tests may provide better results on Order of Sanctuary. And the battles must be naked, because we´re testing pure effectiveness on the play-style. Equips and such might skew it.
So, who´s up for it?

Any Squall players wishing to test the matchups, can write up similar summaries in this thread. Please follow the format. Post all discussion regarding this thread here: http://dissidiaforums.com/showthread...sts-Discussion

-Spyder

Results, so far:

Squall x WoL:

Tests - 1
(performed by K´Genesis and Spyder)

Results - 1-9

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Squall x Garland:

Tests - 1
(performed by K´Genesis and Spyder)

Results - 5-5

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Squall x Cecil:

Tests - 1
(performed by Spyder and Aether)

Results - 5-5

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Squall x Jecht:

Tests - 1
(performed by Spyder and Wedge)

Results - 4-6

I already started it without even realizing a few days ago, when having some practice with Spyder. He was having trouble fighting ground-based WoL and we sparred a bit on Order of Sanctuary, testing each aspect of the meta-game involving those two characters. The results shocked me beyond belief.

Here are the move-sets for both players and a complete analysis, in my POV, of the Squall vs. WoL match-up, so you can have an idea:

Match-up Subject: WoL
Players involved: Spyder and K´Genesis
Testing conditions: Normal(stage: OoS / Naked battles / No Judgement rule)

Squall´s moveset:

Spoiler:

Wol´s moveset:

Spoiler:

---------------------------------------------

Conclusions: WoL will naturally take a ground-heavy defensive stance. This will automatically give him full control of this match. Ascension will almost always interrupt any of Squall´s attacks, most notably Beat Fang, and it is hard to block on reaction. It is also very strong, if all 4 hits connect, and leads to HP damage, being the primary source of damage in this fight. Since it has good vertical range, it is advisable to not stay directly above him. Sword Thrust´s first hit breaks through guard, so you cannot stay on his horizontal line expecting to block Ascension, as you may end up being surprised by this. The key to fight WoL on the ground seems to be staying just outside of ST´s first hit, so you can block the second hit. It is important to know that ST outranges Upper Blues. Both ST and Ascension are safe on whiff, provided that you dodge ST´s first hit, making WoL´s ground game superior to Squall´s. White Fang works as a long-range safe poke. It will usually be used on a air-heavy Squall or after Ascension->Rune Saber to keep Squall from directly dashing at WoL. It is completely safe on the latter case and may grant WoL surprise hits. Squall can´t do anything except deal with it, so it´s a safe way for WoL to protect himself. If Squall dashes directly through it on the air, chances are that he may put himself into Ascension´s range, making this a deadly loop.
However, being a heavy-ground character, he is subject to well-positioned Mystic Flurries, making this the safest way to guarantee damage and lure WoL to his weak spot: the air. If WoL is forced into the air, the battle will quickly change sides, with Squall as the superior fighter. WoL´s game in the air is highly predictable through audio cues and not fast enough to punish Squall, although its range might be deceptive. But WoL can simply try to avoid Mystic Flurry pressure and not go to the air at all, although it might prove difficult. His aerial options are not fast enough to counter Mystic Flurry, unless WoL anticipates it. Heel Crush can greatly help in mind-games, since it staggers even Shield Of Light, but it is promptly countered by Ascension.

Match-up Result: 1-9

**Spyder** · 02-10-2010 11:50 PM

Reporting in for the Squall vs. Garland match-up.

Players involved: K´Genesis and Spyder
Testing conditions: Normal (Stage: OoS/No Judgement/Dissidence Rules)

Squall's Moveset:

Spoiler:

Garland's Moveset

Spoiler:

Conclusions:

This matchup will inevitably turn into a ground versus aerial battle with Garland taking up his natural ground position, while Squall is forced to play the aerial part.

First off Garland beats Squall on the ground in every way. Squall's magic attacks can easily be countered on reaction by Lance Charge or Highbringer, and Squall's remaining physical attacks don't have enough range to compete with Garland's. Thus Squall is forced to go into the air.

In the air, Squall seemingly has an advantage when Garland takes a grounded stance. By mixing up Heel Crush with Beat Fang and throwing off well placed Mystic Flurries, Garland will have a hard time predicting Squall's moves. If Squall constantly circles over Garland's head, Garland won't be able to counter attack with the Highbringer or the Round Edge for both will whiff and set up Garland for a counterattack.

In this case, Garland will need to play a semi-ground, semi-aerial game against Squall and try to punish his Heel Crush whiffs with a hop into the air and a Twist Drill.

Damage wise, Garland has Squall beat. The criticals that Garland does far exceeds those of Squall, and Garland will most likely have more brave or even killing brave amount. Squall will have opportunities to get enough killing brave either at the beginning of the match or after any of Garland's HP attacks.

However, having low brave for Squall is not such a big issue, for there are plenty of room for Squall to land his HP attacks. Squall will have multiple opportunities to land HP attacks after successful blocks or after countering Garland's HP attacks. Garland becomes easily blockable in the air, so this will give Squall many opportunities to either get some brave or to go for an HP attack.

Garland in ex mode, is a huge threat however and this is where Squall needs to be extra careful. Anything he throws out; heel crush, beat fang, mystic flurry, all can be badly punished if they do land on Garland and if he's in the middle of doing an HP attack. Squall will need to be extra careful when hovering over Garland's head because of his Earthquake HP attack. Tornado also becomes an excellent bait and punisher when Garland does hop into the air.

In summary, Garland's brave game is stronger than Squall's. Squall's beat fangs won't be able to keep up with Garland's combos. However, Garland's HP attacks are weaker than Squall's and so Squall will be landing far more HP attacks, but it will only take one HP attack to take Squall down. This makes the matchup a fine balance. Therefore it comes down to:

Match-up Result: 5-5

Here are the three matches that I recorded.

Match 1:

Spoiler:

Match 2:

Spoiler:

Match 3:

Spoiler:

**Spyder** · 02-13-2010 08:17 PM

Reporting for Squall vs. Cecil match-up.

Players involved: Aether and Spyder
Testing Conditions: Normal (OoS, Dissidence Rules, No Judgement)

Squall's Moveset:

Spoiler:

Cecil's Moveset:

Spoiler:

Conclusions:
In this matchup, both Cecil and Squall are free to fight on the ground and in the air. And the both of them will find switching their ground game and air game often.

To start off, Cecil's Dark Knight form is extremely powerful. His Valiant Blow is much stronger than Squall's BP attacks and his Shadow Lance can hit hard as well. Cecil will be able to control the brave as easily as Squall, so any mistakes on Squall's part will not only earn him a break, but they can also cost him the game. A few successful Valiant Blows with critical damage can change the entire match around.

However, Dark Knight can be easily punished from the air. Beat Fang and Mystic Flurry will constantly punish Shadow Lance and Valiant Blow, which will give Squall many opportunities to pull of Mystic Flurry HP combos. Dark Knight doesn't have much to punish an aerial Squall with except for Dark Flame, which can be used to punish aerial dodges. However the Dark Flame will also give many opportunities for the Squall player to punish either with an HP attack or a brave attack. But if Cecil has the killing brave, Cecil risks little with this attack.

The Paladin form is able to keep on par with Squall's aerial game, and will force Squall to play the ground game at some point. Beat Fang and Rough Divide lose out to Sacred Cross, which can dodge both attacks easily. The Paladin's quick brave attacks interrupt Heel Crush and Cecil's movement during his attacks makes it difficult to punish them. Cecil's brave attacks can be easily mixed-uped effectively with his Paladin Force. Saint's Fall is also effective in punishing dodges.

On the ground, Squall's magic attacks come in extremely useful. His Thunder bullet can punish whiffed aerial attacks from the Paladin form, and his Blizzard Bullet can pressure Cecil from afar when he uses searchlight, which can set him up for BB > RD combo.

Both characters have an excellent brave game. Their exmodes can change the entire match around. Both rely on the opponent in making a mistake to land their HP attacks, which means that controlling the brave is even more essential. This comes down to an even matchup:

Match-up Results: 5-5

Match 1

YouTube- Match-up Tests: Squall vs Cecil - Match 1

Match 2

YouTube- Match-up Tests: Squall vs Cecil - Match 2

**Spyder** · 02-14-2010 10:05 PM

Reporting in for Squall vs. Jecht Match-up.

Players involved: Wedge and Spyder
Testing Conditions: Normal (OoS, Dissidence Rules, No Judgement)

Squall's Moveset

Spoiler:

Jecht's Moveset

Spoiler:

Conclusions:

This matchup will test the Squall player's perseverance and the ability to read the Jecht player. This will be of the utmost importance since Squall is the one who cannot afford in making as many mistakes as Jecht.

This matchup will most likely take place all over the place. Both on ground and in the air. Squall's physical brave attacks will have an easy time countering Jecht, but none of them will be able to punish dodges. Countering will be Squall's source of brave gathering against a Jecht player.

Also, Squall's magical brave attacks will come in extremely useful against Jecht. All of these attacks can punish and constantly hit a Jecht player who is already engaged in a combo. Due to Jecht's short-range, Mystic Flurry will almost always find its mark. The problem, however, is that none of the HP attacks can be used to link because of Jecht Block.

Jecht Block is Jecht's most valuable move for this matchup, for Squall cannot use his HP attacks for what they were designed to do: punish mistakes. Squall's Rough Divide, Blasting Zone and Revolver Drive cannot punish any of the dodges because of Jecht's Block and therefore Squall must find another way of landing those HP attacks--either through block or by punishing Jecht's on-going combos.

Landing HP attacks will be Squall's biggest problem in this matchup. He will be the one controlling the brave throughout most of the fight, but he won't have many opportunities to land his HP attacks. This becomes problematic since the Jecht player will most likely have enough time to enter exmode.

In exmode, Jecht's combo--when it lands--does an extreme amount of damage. Two well placed combos will put an end to a match extremely quickly. Which is why the beginning of the match is extremely crucial; if Jecht manages to break Squall's base brave, Squall will be even more at a disadvantage.

However, Jecht's exmode is also what provides new openings; openings which Squall has the ability to punish. Jecht's predictable nature in exmode will either let Squall block mid-combo, or will allow Squall to land a clean HP attack during Jecht's whiffed combos.

In conclusion, what makes this matchup difficult is that Squall cannot use his HP attacks in the same way he does against other characters. He won't be able to punish dodges. Nor can he rely on custom BP>HP links. His only way of dealing HP damage is either through a block or punish Jecht mid-combo. This becomes a hassle, for Squall can be running around with 9999 BP for the entire time, while Jecht can do an enormous amount of damage when he enters exmode and if he manages to get all critical hits, he will be doing alot of HP damage. Therefore this matchup is in Jecht's favor:

Match-up Result: 4-6

Match 1

YouTube- Match-up Tests: Squall vs Jecht - Match 1

Match 2

YouTube- Match-up Tests: Squall vs Jecht - Match 2

**Spyder** · 02-27-2010 10:27 PM

Report in for Squall vs. Golbez match-up.

Players involved: ShineThatLight and Spyder
Testing Conditions: Normal (OoS, Dissidence Rules, No Judgement)

Squall's Moveset:

Spoiler:

Golbez' Moveset:

Spoiler:

Conclusions:

Yet another battle where Squall will need to stay in the air while his opponent will stay grounded for the duration of the battle. Both characters have all the tools to pressure the other; it is a matter of who goes on the offensive, and who forces who into a guessing game.

From the air, Squall has enough tools to keep a grounded Golbez on the defensive. It is vital for Squall to keep moving once he's in the air with omnidash. The dashing allows Squall to stay impervious to Golbez' magical attacks, and it also allows Squall to zoom in for punishing Golbez' whiffed brave attacks like the Attack System and Rising Wave and set him up for Squall's aerial mind game.

It is vital that Squall doesn't get too close to Golbez when not punishing, for Golbez' attacks are fast enough to interrupt Squall's entire aerial brave game with the exception of an occasional Beat Fang. All of Golbez' ground brave attacks have a quick start and will lead to damaging combos. Nightglow will also interrupt Squall's entire aerial brave game with the exception of Beat Fang on some occasions. However if Nightglow misses, Squall has an opportunity to punish with an HP attack.

Mystic Flurry and blocks will be Squall's main methods of landing HP attacks. It is possible for Mystic Flurry to interrupt Golbez during any of his ground attacks, but if it misses or doesn't hit directly Squall will be vulnerable to Golbez' entire ground and aerial arsenal with the exception of Genesis Rock.

In this match up, Squall will probably be the one with most of the brave. If Squall is not broken during the match, he will have plenty of time to land a successful HP attack through a Mystic Flurry since he will be able to afford taking a risk.

Match up results: 6-4

Match 1
YouTube- Match-up Tests: Squall vs Golbez - Match 1

Match 2
YouTube- Match-up Tests: Squall vs Golbez - Match 2

**Spyder** · 03-04-2010 09:28 PM

Report in for Squall vs. Warrior of Light match-up.

Players involved: ShineThatLight and Spyder
Testing Conditions: Normal (OoS, Dissidence Rules, No Judgement)

Squall's Moveset

Spoiler:

WoL's Moveset

Spoiler:

Conclusions See conclusion in the first post for a more detailed analysis.

Shine and I decided to do Squall v. Warrior of Light matchup, and we have come to some stunning results. Unlike in the tests before, I decided to go for a more ground-heavy Squall, with occasional aerial play.

By slightly keeping out of Warrior of Light's Ascension's range, Squall is able to counter promptly with Upper Blues, and if he anticipates ascension, he can try catching WoL with Thunder Bullet.

Squall's aerial options are extremely limited. Ascension's vertical and horizontal range makes it a risky gamble for Squall when he decides to mix up Heel Crush with Beat Fang. And the damage that Ascension does makes Squall's aerial mind game extremely risky. Mystic Flurry can also be easily defeated by White Fang.

Dealing HP damage to Warrior of Light will be more old-school orientated than anything. Blocking and punishing dodges is what Squall will be relying on heavily. Any mystic flurry combos, will be a huge gamble for Squall. And unlike with Golbez, Squall can't always take that risk with Warrior of Light; Warrior of Light's links are extremely powerful.

Match up result: 6-4

Match 1

Spoiler:

Match 2

Spoiler:

Due to such difference in results. 1-9 compared to 6-4. It would be nice to have another Squall player test this match up.

**kacarrot** · 07-21-2010 08:45 AM

Squall vs Tidus

THIS IS BASED OFF KAOS RULES

Squalls move set

Spoiler:

Tidus move set

Spoiler:

This is a pretty even matchup, they both have a hard to land hp game (tidus relying on blocks or dodges same for squall) but lets look at the braves first.

Hop step is a problem this move is FAST, faster than beat fang he can interupt beat fang with this move if activated at about the same time which means dodge punishing him is out of the question. instead you will be relying on beat fangs superior tracking, omni air dash plus all the jumps you can equiped snooze and loose and countering to land your attacks. Hop step only hits directly in front of him, take advantage of this by either staying directly above him or directly below him beat fang can still hit while hop step cant. With snooze and loose equiped, tidus is going to have to wiff hop step to deactivate it, if your quick enough, instantly activate beat fang and you should have time to hit him before he can recover. fortunately for squall. he has a safer way of getting rid of snooze and loose and that is heel crush. so i believe it will be more of a problem to tidus than to squall.

hop steps damage isnt impressive (outside of ex mode) so dont feel to pressure by it, otherwise he will usually counter those panic dodges with full slide which does alot more damage than hop step and can even combo it to hopstep getting off criticals which will do more than a beat fang. Tidus will usually equip fad and mas+ to compensate for hopsteps poor tracking and for the speed boost in exmode making it equally fast to omni air dash (i think) if you see tidus dashing at you and not sure if he will hopstep you or mind game you, jump, you can use jump as a dodge against hop step for a swift counter.

Squall will most likely be in control of the brave because beat fang automatically critics with sneak attack which is why you should not feel pressure by hopstep. by constantly facing tidus who will most likely have sneak attack equiped for gauranteed criticals through hopstep to full slide, he will rarely ever critic you, meaning him landing 4 hop steps that dont critical= 1 half critic beat fang. However full slide to hop step does alot more than a sneak critic beat fang since it is also a gauranteed sneak critic which is why you should not dodge carelessly, however from experience a tidus trying to punish a dodge with full slide will sometimes wiff, punishing this wiff with beat fang works about 30% of the time because at the end of it he kinda moves up but when in ex mode the percentage is increase to 80% the extra range can just snag tidus at the end of full slide.

I dont think tidus can force squall to the air because when a tidus player attempts to jecht shot me from far away i usually dash as hes about to fire i heel crush cancel towards him to gain distance and dodge the shot leaving him in range for a beat fang. if he is directly above you, use as many jumps as you can and just as hes about to fire heel crush cancel towards him and he should be in range for a beat fang (not 100% sure though).

if you do end up fighting tidus on the ground. upper blues is your friend. it has superior range to hop step and can get you out of stick and move/ dart and weave dodge punishment by activating it during dodge and at the end of tiduses attack it will usually collide with it. it is possible with sonic buster as well. If the tidus player isnt aware of blizzard barret and thunder barrets low lag time use this to your advantage. you can block almost instantly after squall fires the ice bullet, thunder barret takes a little longer but its still has a very fast recovery lag. if the tidus player attempts to stick and move thunder barret or blizzard bullet you will have enogh time to block for a beat fang or thunder barret. If the tidus player is aware of this he will attempt to mind game you and use hp attacks instead of stick and move meaning you will be in a guessing game of what is he going to do? also be aware that a tidus can dash through thunder barret or blizzard barret to hopstep your back getting easy criticals so i advise you wait till you've broken tidus before you attempt to bait or poke with these attacks.

Tiduses ex mode is what will usually turn the tide of the battle SERIOUSLY. hop step becomes an UBER HAX attack and full slides damage combine is OMGWTFBBQ!combine with the speed boost this is the time to be worried, jumping over hopstep is harder because of his encredibly fast speed making both him and hop step a force to be reckoned with. If you dont break him before he enters exmode prepare for break which will be the most likely result. But not all hope is lost. Squall has his exmode which is also UBER HAX and can match tiduses exmode in damage. I usually use exmode to keep his exmode in check and to keep the brave i have gained.

THIS is the truely hard part. Landing those Hp attacks. I know your thinking isnt that the problem he has with everybody? Yes but its alot harder to land them on tidus then most of the cast. Squalls safest and main way of landing hp attacks is with ariel rough divide dodge punishment, the problem is tidus is invulnerable to dodge punshiment from any of your hp attacks and can counter your safest way of landing hp attacks with stick and move and cut and run for blasting zone. Mystic flurry is even less viable due to tiduses stick and move being able to punish Mystic flurry safely. Same with full slide but it can wiff for a free hp. A tactic i use is fire 1 MF bullet when the tidus is out of stick and move range the tidus sees an opportunity to land a hp attack and dashes towards me and uses stick and move. depending on the time it took him to get to me, i should be able to block after MF for the killing blow, basically baiting him. Blizzard bullet to Blasting zone is a gauranteed and probably your safest way of landing hp attacks, though hitting him with BB during hopstep wiff will be hard since he can block almost instantly after he uses it. Blocking is the other main way you will be landing those hp attacks, also even though MF is very unsafe if you do manage to land it it could win the match for you. Also a dodged spiral cut can be countered by a lock-off ariel circle.

Squall isnt the only one with a hard time at landing those hp attacks. Tidus has the exact same problem relying on dodge punishment and punishing wiffed hp and brave attacks plus blocks to land the killing blow. So dont be worried and dodge carelessly otherwise he can kill you. but if he does manage to activate stick and move at the exact same time as you dodge, heel crush dodge cancel can get you out of it since heel crush dodge cancelling is faster than just redodging making it harder for tidus to land hp attacks then they already are. he also may puposely wiff hop step to bait a late beat fang and block since hop steps recovery lag is really low. The only brave attack he can punish on wiff with stick and move is MF which you shouldnt be using anyway if the tidus has killing brave. Use squalls exmode the same way tidus uses his, to turn the tides of the battle. The damage of an exmode beat fang is enough to put a tidus with 9999 brave to a tidus with 8000 brave.

Overall 6-4 Squalls favour
Both have a hard time landing the killing blow but Squalls superior brave game slightly tips the scales in his favour.

all IMO from my experiences with tidus