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How is this move called... - Page 2

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Thread: How is this move called...

  1. #11
    The cold-blooded Knight Mogstache's Avatar
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    I guess that's true. Though dropping it is going to be rarer and rarer as time goes by. I was obviously wrong anyway. My bad.

    EDIT : Sorry it looks like I'm being rude, I might not have noticed, it's really not my intention @TheEmden :<
    Last edited by Mogstache; 12-24-2015 at 12:14 AM.
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  2. #12
    Airship Pilot TheEmden's Avatar
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    @mogstache, hey it's fine, it's nice to have a little debate over varying opinions, in the army it's basically your superiors are always right

    Anyway, it's certainly very true that for some characters, particularly Exdeath and Prishe (more importantly, it doubles as a taunt for Exdeath: Naive, Naive, Naive!), being proficient in Blashing really brings them to another level. However it does not have the same effect for all characters and i still stand by that it is not something that you cannot win without. Take this match for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7re_6EvAQ in the first 2 games the WoL player was using Blashing but it's effect was clearly fairly limited, the Cloud/Sephiroth player was unfazed by the pressure and still pulled of impressive wins.

    Before you bring this up, yes there are many videos too where blashing is an important factor for a win, however i'm just saying that it's certainly not critical to know blashing to win, there are other factors that are equally, if not more important in deciding a winner in a match than your proficiency in blashing.

    At the same time i actually still agree with you and Kraid that a good player should try to learn and have as many tools in their arsenal because it will almost always be better to be proficient in as many things as possible. i'll also admit that i have used it extensively in my thousands of hours over ad-hoc (however this is also where i get the impression that although it sounds great on paper, in practice it isn't always useful). And when (or rather if...) i get a new controller i will certainly be implemeting blashing into my play again.

  3. #13
    The cold-blooded Knight Mogstache's Avatar
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    The thing is you showed me footage of random players whereas I'm talking from a theorical point of view. I could post a video of let's say Squall vs Cloud, and if the Cloud player wins easily without blocking I could say "blocking is not necessary to win, look at this Cloud". Of course you can win some matches without Dash Cancelling, still, I believe that in a match played at the highest level of skill (which is not reachable), it is a necessary feature even if it only gets used for like 5 seconds of a whole match. This is why I think saying it's not necessary to win is false, because you could say that for anything in the game " oh look, brv attacks aren't necessary to win since you can kill with HP attacks" (I know I exaggerate but I just want to make my point clearer.

    Of course it might have drawbacks NOW but eventually it has to become a very useful tech.
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  4. #14
    Airship Pilot TheEmden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mogstache View Post
    The thing is you showed me footage of random players whereas I'm talking from a theorical point of view. I could post a video of let's say Squall vs Cloud, and if the Cloud player wins easily without blocking I could say "blocking is not necessary to win, look at this Cloud". Of course you can win some matches without Dash Cancelling, still, I believe that in a match played at the highest level of skill (which is not reachable), it is a necessary feature even if it only gets used for like 5 seconds of a whole match. This is why I think saying it's not necessary to win is false, because you could say that for anything in the game " oh look, brv attacks aren't necessary to win since you can kill with HP attacks" (I know I exaggerate but I just want to make my point clearer.

    Of course it might have drawbacks NOW but eventually it has to become a very useful tech.
    Actually, one of my main points in the previous post is that no single skill is always needed in order to win, it's a mix of utilizing the right skills, Understanding your opponent better and innate advantages, such as quicker reaction times that decides a winner. So even being able to win without blocking furthers my point above that no single skill is ever essential to win. Because what you are saying now with this statement: "saying it's (it's is referring to blashing) not necessary to win is false" is that 100% of matches won is because the winner used Blashing better, which lets be honest is obviously untrue and is quite an unreasonable claim.

    Furthermore theoreticals are fun to discuss but outside of scholastic scenarios they have very little meaning and trying to use them at face value ends up making no sense at all. For example, if 2 perfect players faced off, neither can get hit, while at the same time neither can make a failed attack; a paradoxical scenario which essentially means that they both can never make a single move so neither can win and therefore neither can be considered perfect since they could not beat the other. Ridiculous outcomes like this is almost always what happens when you use theoretical scenarios to make a point in a practical scenario.

    Lastly in no way did i say it's not useful, i only said it has obvious risks to it and especially for people who are not confident in using it, there are other fundamental aspects of your game that could be more worthwhile to improve on.
    Last edited by TheEmden; 12-24-2015 at 07:28 PM.

  5. #15
    The cold-blooded Knight Mogstache's Avatar
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    When I say that I think it is necessary to win, I do not necessarily mean it is needed in every scenario, I think we actually agree on that, it is required in some matchups, in others less. I still think that as long as it gives you even a very slight advantage for a small part of the match, it should be used. Of course Dash Cancelling itself doesn't decide the outcome of a match, it is only one of the many factors which decide it.

    I might be mistaken but I think you're wrong when you're talking about theory. Actually I think you're right in a mirror match situation. I do believe that tiers exist and that therefore if two perfect players were to play a match the better character would win, that is the point of the Tier List. Basically what I wanted to say was that Dash Cancelling and pretty much any other move should be taken into account when gathering matchup information, you can't really throw away an option like that just because you don't need it to win all the time (I'm not saying you necessarily disagree with this, I'm just trying to make my point clearer).

    I agree with you though, it's definitely not the first thing you need to learn if you wanna get into competitive Dissidia (lol).
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  6. #16
    DA BESS TKG09's Avatar
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    We don't actually know what theoretical "highest levels of play" DDFF looks like


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurayami View Post
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  7. #17
    DA BESS TKG09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mogstache View Post
    I do believe that tiers exist and that therefore if two perfect players were to play a match the better character would win, that is the point of the Tier List
    This statement is super wrong and I shouldnt even have to explain why. Tiers are not synonimous with matchups. See Ulti vs Gab, for instance


    Spoiler:
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    <ForeverAloneGaruga> AxeL is a bad troll

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurayami View Post
    Well, I doubt any of the 'drama' from the threads I create will ever enter the backroom. Mainly due to the absence of Team L7W.

  8. #18
    Ron Swansonesque Cookies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKG09 View Post
    This statement is super wrong and I shouldnt even have to explain why. Tiers are not synonimous with matchups. See Ulti vs Gab, for instance
    It's barely wrong. Tiers are based on matchups, so picking a random high and random low character the chances of the matchup being in the higher character's favour is much higher, and in ideal conditions they are likely to win.

    Making the distinction is kind of unnecessary, unless you're talking about specific characters.

    Edit: Even then, his phrasing still makes sense.
    Last edited by Cookies; 12-25-2015 at 01:50 AM.

  9. #19
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    This technique has a 4-5f window. I play USF4 competitively and that game has 1f links stacked on top of each other (granted plinking makes the window more like 2f).

    I can say without a doubt given enough practice you can't actually mess this up.

  10. #20
    The cold-blooded Knight Mogstache's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKG09 View Post
    We don't actually know what theoretical "highest levels of play" DDFF looks like
    Of course we don't.

    "This statement is super wrong and I shouldnt even have to explain why. Tiers are not synonimous with matchups. See Ulti vs Gab, for instance"

    What I meant was that since tiers exist, two characters will rarely face in a 5-5 matchup. I'm basically saying that Ult-Gab would always be won by Ulti if the MU's played by two perfect players.
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