Sephiroth's Hells Gate Canceling: Rammifications

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

So now that Sephiroth HAS this fast killing tool, what now? How does this affect matchups? I can't really fathom since it's rather conditional sometimes but here's what I got.

Order's Sanctuary and Wold of Darkness(Both): Sephiroth has a bit more of an advantage now, since with the exception the throne in Order and a FEW obstacles, the entire place is flat, allowing HGC to be pulled off more effectively.

Edge of Madness: His advantage here is still heightened, but by a lesser degree than those above, given the raised level in the area.

The Rift: Also Mostly Flat, but sometimes the lack of ground can get in the way. Less beneficial because it's a big air stage as well. Other plausible stages for this to work include Old Chaos Shrine, Pandemonium, and Kefka's Tower

Exdeath: Not sure on this one, but now Seph might has a safer way of dealing HP damage. The only real question is the kind of Exdeath you face: If they use Concentration, they'll be on the ground a lot more. If not, they'll stay in the air more than not.

Firion and Golbez: Simply put, Ground characters are now at even more of a disadvantage due to..you know...the ground. In addition, I have seen HGC outspeed Nightglow and Rope Knife, so any 'get in close' countermeasures are null.

Squall: This is more a request than anything else: after a Rough Divide were to land Squall on the ground, would Seph be able to dash in and HGC after a neutral dodge? It can be an air Neutral dodge since you can do this with Free air dash or a ground neutral dodge.

WoL: Not sure on WoL, since Ascension just MIGHT have the speed and range to hit you mid dash. He might also intercept with Shield of Light. Not sure on that though.


Opportunity for mindgames: If you have already used HGC before, sometimes people might try to dodge you if you have all the pre-requisites and you dash towards them. So maybe you could swap that HGC out for something else, like Octa or Sudden Cruelty.

Omni Air Dash: Now that you can speed in and potentially do an HP attack extremely quickly, Sephiroth players might start switching to Omni air dash as a whole. What this means, I don't mean to go into, but it might(probably) put Seph at a disadvantage with Ulti and Terra.

Tell me what you guys think. Are these plausible assumptions? Are there any more assumptions we can make? Or are some of these definite? Would be nice if we could test this.

[MeCz15]

You forgot pandemonium, but i don't have any trouble doing the HG cancel there.. mainly because the stage still has some ground and corners that can be utilized, and the FF7 stage is out of the topic since its all air..

Onto the question about squall, yes, sephi can quickly counter after a neutral dodge (though i would prefer a sideways dodge based on experience coz i use omni dash) if and only IF he has omni equipped..

WoL can counter with Ascension if he intercepts, but just ex guard it anyway if you're about to inflict the final blow..

Some advice i could give is that don't use this aggressively against experienced players who actually knows the cancel because they will expect it (again, based on experience), instead use it as a punisher (eg. if they miss with an HP attack)

Haven't tried it with the exdeath coz non of my friends play him.. >.>"

[pheano]

So now that Sephiroth HAS this fast killing tool, what now? How does this affect matchups? I can't really fathom since it's rather conditional sometimes but here's what I got.

Order's Sanctuary and Wold of Darkness(Both): Sephiroth has a bit more of an advantage now, since with the exception the throne in Order and a FEW obstacles, the entire place is flat, allowing HGC to be pulled off more effectively.

Edge of Madness: His advantage here is still heightened, but by a lesser degree than those above, given the raised level in the area.

The Rift: Also Mostly Flat, but sometimes the lack of ground can get in the way. Less beneficial because it's a big air stage as well. Other plausible stages for this to work include Old Chaos Shrine, Pandemonium, and Kefka's Tower

Exdeath: Not sure on this one, but now Seph might has a safer way of dealing HP damage. The only real question is the kind of Exdeath you face: If they use Concentration, they'll be on the ground a lot more. If not, they'll stay in the air more than not.

Firion and Golbez: Simply put, Ground characters are now at even more of a disadvantage due to..you know...the ground. In addition, I have seen HGC outspeed Nightglow and Rope Knife, so any 'get in close' countermeasures are null.

Squall: This is more a request than anything else: after a Rough Divide were to land Squall on the ground, would Seph be able to dash in and HGC after a neutral dodge? It can be an air Neutral dodge since you can do this with Free air dash or a ground neutral dodge.

WoL: Not sure on WoL, since Ascension just MIGHT have the speed and range to hit you mid dash. He might also intercept with Shield of Light. Not sure on that though.


Opportunity for mindgames: If you have already used HGC before, sometimes people might try to dodge you if you have all the pre-requisites and you dash towards them. So maybe you could swap that HGC out for something else, like Octa or Sudden Cruelty.

Omni Air Dash: Now that you can speed in and potentially do an HP attack extremely quickly, Sephiroth players might start switching to Omni air dash as a whole. What this means, I don't mean to go into, but it might(probably) put Seph at a disadvantage with Ulti and Terra.

Tell me what you guys think. Are these plausible assumptions? Are there any more assumptions we can make? Or are some of these definite? Would be nice if we could test this.

has this been tested on adhoc and xlink?
is this practical with teh input lag?

asuming yes to both../
i dont think this will effect the actual play of sephiroth in most instances since as you said its very conditional, what it will do is provide even more mind games as you said and i think thats the greatest effect
now how can we capitolize on this knowing that when we dash our opponent will flee or dodge
and on he terra/ulti issue
i dont think thats a big deal
you can tackle them with omni if you want thats fine but you can always change back to free air when you see who their useing

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

I already had Pandemonium in there as a good stage.

Also, I would totally use this aggressively. Why? Because experienced players who know about it will start dodging your dashes, leading to all kinds of hurt for them. I thought of this in the 'Opportunity for mindgames' section
=== Double post was automatically merged. ===

you can always change back to free air when you see who their useing

That's not really solving the problem though, more like avoiding it

And yes, it seems to work with lag.

[pheano]

whats not solving the problem?
you kinda quoted me oddly

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Switching back to Free Air Dash doesn't solve the problem. It just kinda ignores it. if you ALWAYS use Omni and don't want to switch back. All I'm saying is this:

1.HGC may cause people to use Omni a lot more
2.If the use Omni and come up against Terra or Ulty, they'll have to find a new way to combat them.

[MeCz15]

I already had Pandemonium in there as a good stage.

Also, I would totally use this aggressively. Why? Because experienced players who know about it will start dodging your dashes, leading to all kinds of hurt for them. I thought of this in the 'Opportunity for mindgames' section
=== Double post was automatically merged. ===


That's not really solving the problem though, more like avoiding it

And yes, it seems to work with lag.

well, it seems that you got it all down now, grats!

But back to the topic, yeah you could do that (dash and abuse the opp's dodge, you told me that on the other thread and it works.. well, most of the time) but i wouldn't totally abuse the dodge that much coz chances are you could get punished IF you miss..

Now I'm not saying that don't do it, I'm against the whole "abuse the dodge" thingy or that you will miss, I am merely saying that be careful on those abuse attempts on the dodges because of.. well.. personal experience of course..

You could make a mistake and dodge too far from where the opp dodged or the octaslash's start lag is long enough for the opp to dodge the attack, hence punishing you.. But hey, if it works, it works eh?

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Trust me, it works. If you don't want to risk Octa, use Sudden Cruelty. That's not likely to get abused anytime soon if your opponent has dodged beforehand. But on the ground, the only option that works for dodging an Octa is up and over. When HGCing, the closest thing to a safe zone is likely dodging backwards, since the sides can still get hit as well as up and over.

[MeCz15]

Trust me, it works. If you don't want to risk Octa, use Sudden Cruelty. That's not likely to get abused anytime soon if your opponent has dodged beforehand. But on the ground, the only option that works for dodging an Octa is up and over. When HGCing, the closest thing to a safe zone is likely dodging backwards, since the sides can still get hit as well as up and over.

I know it does, i said it like a thousand times in the other thread.. lol

That takes care of half of what i had explained, but for those who are still new to the technique I advise to play safe.. You can't always dodge to the same direction where the opp dodged.. Well, any suggestions if that happens? i've got none to give cause that's what I'm having trouble in, if that happens, i just dash in again and bluff out into octa

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Wait, wait. You dash THEN dodge?