The Ragnarok: Are you ready? (Ruleset discussion)

[Spyder]

Oh right, about abilities. Are all Disable abilities BESIDES the possibility of CA/SA banned?

As far as the ruleset stands. All abilities but the "Equip_____" are allowed. So, all disable abilities are currently allowed.

[K´Genesis]

Oh right, about abilities. Are all Disable abilities BESIDES the possibility of CA/SA banned?

On the contrary.
All other Disable abilities are game.

[SLKrn108]

Well EXP to HP will prove to be somewhat similar to the Regen for characters who has easy access to HP attacks such as Onion Knight and Zidane. Because of this, skilled Onion Knight and Zidane players could easily lengthen a match compared to characters who cannot easily land HP attacks such as Squall and Sephiroth. If this happens, many players would use EXP to Hp and that will become an unfair advantage.

Because there are characters who have an easier time getting to EX-Cores, I believe that EXP to EX Force can help solve the EX Core camping issue. Unfortunately, EXP to EX Force along with all other EXP to __ abilities, highly benefit characters with easy access to HP attacks. I suggest that if EXP to Brv and EXP to Ex Force are implemented into the rule set, then some characters should be allowed to use EXP to Ex Force while others use EXP to Brv depending on how hard or easy it is for each character to land HP attacks. A prime example would be Zidane using EXP to Brv while Sephiroth uses EXP to EX Force.

[Khaimyn]

- Close To You
- Choosing only CA or SA
- Banning Disable CA/SA
- The inclusion of "Exp To _______" into the scene(which is currently not banned)
- Anything else that´s not listed

I honestly think we SHOULD ban Disable CA/SA. My reason for thinking this is that what if someone Put Disable SA but they had CA. And the other person put Disable SA. The Match would come completely one sided, which, even if there's a difference in skill, Dissidia is completely dependent on Criticals. But, then again, I'm not a giant pro and I doubt my post was persuasive enough or of enough back up information, but that's just my mind.

[Draec Khin]

Very original and well thought out. Can't wait for it to start.


Here are my views to stimulate critical thinking.

Desired focus for discussion on the moment:

- Close To You
-- In terms of Ex gathering for Ragnarok is very similar to Dissidence. Dashing for Ex Cores and Ex Core camping is present under any rule set. I will be willing to help test Close to You and see if it minimizes or nulls the Ex core camping strategy.

I am interested to see if Ex gathering will be a bit more balanced; after all no ex intake will definitely make anyone camp out ex cores just because the ex force is a limited resource and this becomes a viable strategy. I think personally Ex Camping is not something we want to see? Thoughts on Ex camping issue anyone?

On another note: I have to say that an interesting side effect of Close to You may be that "last chance" save from death -- e.g. the bar fills up from 99% to 100% as you take damage or used offensively for a burst.

Yes? No? Testing: definitely.


- Choosing only CA or SA
--At first I was iffy on this even for KAoS, but I kind got used to it, so I don't see why not as it worked well in KAoS, but in KAoS we could not disable CA/SA (discussed later). I can't really say much if both would be overkill for restricted gear in this tourney as it needs some testing as well. But having one is probably fine.

So what do you guys think on CA and SA as it was in KAoS and overall?

- Banning Disable CA/SA
-- I think this would be really bad if we can only equip one. These are two most effective extra abilities and it may be a game of guessing who has what equipped? If we are allowed to disable CA/SA than allowing the two to be equipped is essential although some characters can do without them.

Or maybe just maybe, we should allow disables even if we can equip one so the extra skill ability took more thinking. After all, disabling CA/SA may be something you want because you don't want something more essential disabled for your character?

Personally I am only for allowing this if we can equip both CA/SA.

Ideas?

- The inclusion of "Exp To _______" into the scene(which is currently not banned)
--I really don't care about this except one thing: It is really annoying and error prone. The last thing we need is "oh shit I forgot to set my special day/adjust clock" to get that extra boost in battle. I know it's silly but it will happen and because it is something that is not done often.


I think before we say no, we ask these questions:

1. Is it too much if both players have special day set?
2. What happens when only one player set the special day bonus?



- Anything else that´s not listed
--Here is my list for now:

1. What about weapons that have CA/SA on them? If we allow only CA/SA how would we deal with it?

I also don't like the idea of having Exclusive Weapons only because some of them are simply much better than others.

That is no different than saying oh Zidane has a swift attack. Each character is better at something than the other -- so that is reflected in their weapons as well. The whole part of "enhancing" an ability seems to highlight a character and in my opinion fits in the tourney's purpose.

And, can't we just have a tourny with no EX whatsoever for a change =P, that is, no entering EX mode completely. Also solves problem of EX camping, as well the HP it heals. I don't know how many times a player goes into EX in a battle on average, as well as how long the player remains in it, but in some battles I've seen the HP recovery in EX is significant overall. Once the HP has been depleted, it should stay that way, no?

No. Just no. How are you supposed to play Gabranth? Doesn't make sense. Ex bursting is maybe another story.

If anyone does test the above proposals please share your thoughts on what your results and conclusions are.

[Bloodsword83]

In my humble opinion, I believe that if you were to ban Disable SA/CA, then you should ban all the other Disable abilities. This is my reasoning: Let's look at Riposte. Characters who's main way of dealing damage is by blocking and countering (read Exdeath and Jecht) would be at a severe disadvantage. I don't like the idea of not being able to Disable Counterattack while my Exdeath has his Riposte disabled. Am I making sense?

[Spyder]

@SLKrn108:

It's true that some characters have an easier time to land HP attacks, but the profit of brave gathers like Squall and Sephiroth also adds on to the strategy.

For instance. A Zidane player wouldn't want to equip Exp To HP against brave gathers like Sephiroth or Squall. They will most likely go for a OHKO. So maybe keeping your brave safe with Exp to BRV or making sure to gain Ex quicker by using Exp to Ex is more useful.

Same goes for the brave gathers. Once Squall reaches 5k or higher. It's risky to land an HP attack because of the risk of being broken for a very long period of time. He can choose to safe guard this with Exp to Brv. Or he may choose Exp to HP and risk the chance of being broken for regaining HP. Or maybe he'll need to go for that full ex bar.

It all evens out. In fact it adds even more strategy. Which ability will you equip when you take factors in like who is your character, who are you going up against, what's the players style, etc. This ability was never tested in a tournament setting. I think it'll be nice to finally put it to the test. And in this case, everyone can manipulate their clocks to get the best bonuses. No one will have an unfair advantage because everyone has the ability of doing this.

[Khaimyn]

In my humble opinion, I believe that if you were to ban Disable SA/CA, then you should ban all the other Disable abilities. This is my reasoning: Let's look at Riposte. Characters who's main way of dealing damage is by blocking and countering (read Exdeath and Jecht) would be at a severe disadvantage. I don't like the idea of not being able to Disable Counterattack while my Exdeath has his Riposte disabled. Am I making sense?

That's actually very true. I meant to also add "I vote to ban all other Disables as well" but I forgot, so I now propose that.

I personally vote to Ban all Disables, and you can use ANY ability excluding EXP to ___ and being able to pick only CA or SA.

[Katsu]

I wanna allow disables, the damage output some characters have with crits is too much.

[Kotoso]

It seems like it would be difficult to spot and difficult to prove whether or not someone was using a 2x exp bonus on their play plan. And you can't allow play plans other than treasure hunter, because a 5x bonus is too powerful (and annoying to get).