Cloud Strife vs Zack Fair

**Empowered** · 04-06-2013 08:53 PM

The only video evidence I have provided that can be disputed is the Zack versus Sephiroth fight. Even so everything else I linked to that point is correct. The other videos all prove the points they are supposed to. Provide evidence regarding Minerva's omnipotence because you currently haven't. And unless you can to some degree, which I'm not saying you can't, I don't really believe it. She was compared to a summon in the ultimania. I think I know what quote you are referring to and it's not alot to base your statement on. Also the reason why I can say that about Clouds moves is because they are his moves.

it remains to be proven that Cloud actually invented any of his moves

Unless there is anything to prove or provoke speculation that he didn't invent them the only logical assumption would be that he did. But what if I could prove the first person to use braver was Cloud? Refer to the CC Cloud vs CC Sephiroth video I posted. You will see he performs the attack after stabbing Sephiroth and moving Tifa aside, this is pre experimentation Cloud remember.

**X-Zone** · 04-06-2013 09:29 PM

Hot damn, you guys are still arguing about this? Goddess slayer, squats champion of the universe, call him whatever you like; Zack fair was mortally wounded and ultimately defeated in FFVII by a pair of level 1 Shinra grunts.

On the whole Goddess vs Sephiroth thing, you probably shouldn't start including superbosses as canon in an argument y'know. If I can solo Ruby Weapon as Barret, does that make him 'super saiyan 4 lolhax why ain't this nigga banned from competitive play' on the FFVII universe tier list? I suppose by that logic, some doofus with a beach ball is also more powerful than a cosmic planet busting whale. This line of thought becomes veeery subjective to the player's own achievements.

Anyhow the way I understand it, it was the official word from SE that Sephiroth is the strongest being in FFVII so yeah. Zack never defeated him. Cloud did, whether Sephikins was holding back or not. ...heck, Cloud even won back when he was the equivalent of a level 5 Shinra grunt. Also makes zero sense, but hey, at least that part's canon.

**Empowered** · 04-06-2013 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by X-Zone

Hot damn, you guys are still arguing about this? Goddess slayer, squats champion of the universe, call him whatever you like; Zack fair was mortally wounded and ultimately defeated in FFVII by a pair of level 1 Shinra grunts.

On the whole Goddess vs Sephiroth thing, you probably shouldn't start including superbosses as canon in an argument y'know. If I can solo Ruby Weapon as Barret, does that make him 'super saiyan 4 lolhax why ain't this nigga banned from competitive play' on the FFVII universe tier list? I suppose by that logic, some doofus with a beach ball is also more powerful than a cosmic planet busting whale. This line of thought becomes veeery subjective to the player's own achievements.

Anyhow the way I understand it, it was the official word from SE that Sephiroth is the strongest being in FFVII so yeah. Zack never defeated him. Cloud did, whether Sephikins was holding back or not. ...heck, Cloud even won back when he was the equivalent of a level 5 Shinra grunt. Also makes zero sense, but hey, at least that part's canon.

I more or less agree with everything you just said. Also here are the translations from Minerva's "Keyword Collection" page http://thelifestream.net/final-fanta...rd-collection/

She is interpreted to be the Goddess mentioned in LOVELESS, but in terms of substance she is similar to a summon, though it seems that the purpose behind her actions is to follow the intentions of the Lifestream.

Minerva does not have power over the Lifestream she merely follows it's "intentions". Her status of Goddess hood is questionable as she is only interpreted by Genesis as the Goddess from the LOVELESS play. The fact she is compared to a summon would suggest she has a power similar to a summon as well.

**Kraid** · 04-07-2013 11:28 AM

Don't count beating Minerva as canon evidence Zack is stronger than Cloud, considering it was a side mission that didn't need to be done.

**Dark-Lumina** · 04-07-2013 02:38 PM

Same thing as Vincent and Yuffie being side characters in the game and becoming main characters in a canon movie.

Just saiyan

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**RoxasTheRanger** · 04-07-2013 02:47 PM

Five points of value:
Personality: Zack, every time.
Power: Zack didn't need to use Omnislash to defeat Sephiroth.
Getting over things: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx3duFYCcho
People around him: Cloud technically, until the forementioned, then a tie. Unless you mean followers, which in the game, Zack has many more.
Fangirls: I don't know either way.
Meanwhile, this is playing; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfNxgdUEOF4