DNC Survey

[Wedge]

Gear Ruleset- Horribly unbalanced, no need to say much more. Damn regen and quickmove

Character Restriction- I liked this. It makes players actually plan out their strategy beforehand on who they're going to use.

Banning Omegas- Omegas are cheap. Amazing rule here, hopefully used more in future tournaments

Predetermined M1 Stages - Not really liking this, I prefer if players agree on a stage OR just simply random. Some stages are horrible for some characters

Counterpicking System- Perfect.

Could you maybe give some recommendations as to what changes should be made to the gear set.

IF There ever is another gear tourney some things I would probably change:
-Ban all forms of passive brave gain
-Either restrict multipliers or ban them completely (fixes the issue of regen, EX, increased damage, depletion ect)
-Ban Stat modifiers (ATK and DEF) May still include DEF adepts and BRV adepts.
-Summons Banned
-All initial ____ Accessories/Equipment Banned
-IF banning multipliers slows EX gain to a "managable amount" then CA/SA rule and no disables could be implemented.

[Lycoris]

You could have preset multipliers like the gearset in question for the Tag Team tourny. Those seem fine right now.
I'd think you have to limit on the choices of accessories. From what it looks like, you'd probably have to have a NOT-Banned list as opposed to a Banned List. at least for the Basic accessories.

[funkyman02]

[This post was deleted by Funkyman02]

[RoboDestroyer]

Could you maybe give some recommendations as to what changes should be made to the gear set.

IF There ever is another gear tourney some things I would probably change:
-Ban all forms of passive brave gain
-Either restrict multipliers or ban them completely (fixes the issue of regen, EX, increased damage, depletion ect)
-Ban Stat modifiers (ATK and DEF) May still include DEF adepts and BRV adepts.
-Summons Banned
-All initial ____ Accessories/Equipment Banned
-IF banning multipliers slows EX gain to a "managable amount" then CA/SA rule and no disables could be implemented.

Like I said, this becomes to limited now you might as well make a gear tourny with predetermined sets.

@Lyco: With predetermined multipliers that's even less customization. People will just switch between like 3-4 basic acc. ad isn't the point of gear tournaments to give people some freedom with making sets?

[Veysey]

Okay fiiiiiine. I guess the predetermined stages was alright but getting Ulty's tower like twice sucked a nut. And knowing you were going to get it didn't really help. It added insult to injury bra.

Ohhhh, since this point interests me a lot (and it's a great point Funky), I'd like to suggest in the future (if this is ever used again) that the stage distribution be completely planned and let the player placement be random. That way, there can be an even and fair distribution of stage placement ... also, since it's planned, the stage placement COULD be static for all tournaments that use this model (as in it never changes, only player placement changes).

Also, it could easily be something the community could decide on/develop since it is something that can remain completely static for future tournaments.

Anyways, food for thought I guess. Not sure what others think on the concept.

[HYNE]

Actually, the predetermined M1 stages allowed you to practice in them and think of strategies in advance, so it's a good thing imo.

[funkyman02]

The only thing I saw it do was force you to go to your reserves if the stage was horrible for you. Let's say that I was maining Tidus and I got Ulty's Castle twice. Everyone and their mother knows that Tidus has a zero chance to connect his HP links if the opponent hovers at the ceiling of the level.

I'd honestly leave it up to random so I can be surprised at what I got. Might as well put SOME element of excitement back into the tourney.

Oh and look what RDF found when he had all the time in the world to experiment on people in Pande. :P

[Wedge]

Ohhhh, since this point interests me a lot (and it's a great point Funky), I'd like to suggest in the future (if this is ever used again) that the stage distribution be completely planned and let the player placement be random. That way, there can be an even and fair distribution of stage placement ... also, since it's planned, the stage placement COULD be static for all tournaments that use this model (as in it never changes, only player placement changes).

Also, it could easily be something the community could decide on/develop since it is something that can remain completely static for future tournaments.

Anyways, food for thought I guess. Not sure what others think on the concept.

Hmm thats an interesting take Veysey. But I'm a bit confused on the concept so I'll probably just ask you via PM or IRC whatever what you mean.

What I did for the "predetermined" stages was assign all the stages to a number of 1-12 (11 and 12 being Chaos and Cosmos respectively) get a 12d generator program and just assign the stages as the program spat out the numbers. Essentially, you might as well have played random. The main reason we didn't do random is becasue we banned Omega stages. If you did random first round and got an Omega, you would have to reset and redo random. With that you could get a peek at your opponents build and change inbetween. Not to mention you can't tell if some stages are Omega right away, not even by brave pool.

@Robo thats EXACTLY what I said to Judah. After banning all the different things in gear, whats the point? It might as well be predetermined sets or just eff it and go non character specific gear (KAoS Rag ect)

@Funky Actually what RDF found was a GOOD THING. He discovered a new combo for WoL which is probably going to push WoL into high tier/top tier easily now. How he used it was not. But lets not discuss that.

Thank you all for the input! Please keep them coming! Its great to hear what the community thinks so that we can implement things that were good in DNC into other tournaments. Or just learn from our mistakes.

[rshadowkirby]

i can honestly say veysey just came up with the best idea ever

[Draec Khin]

My review of DNC:

Overall this tournament was good and quite enjoyable. I think that the tournament had some "discrepancies," but overall it, as well as other geared tourneys, showed that dissidia can be competitive both in geared and clean (no-gear) ruleset styles.

Gear Ruleset:

Overall it takes a while until quirks come out in any tournament, and given time can be patched later. Since DNC is a geared tournament I think by being more restrictive, it allows for less choices to counter some "options" that might be discovered later (Ehx vs Funky match). In light of this, I believe that a geared tourney needs to allow almost everything or almost nothing.

I find it that if we place rulesets on a number line from 0-10, 0 being dissidence and 10 being Get Salty. DNC would be around 5-6. Ninja's Playground would be somewhere at 8-9. I think DNC did a good job improving the geared scene, but in a true spirit of geared battles, next tourneys need to place higher, somewhere at 7 on that number line.

The way I think of geared tourneys is like warfare. Anything goes including ingenious ways to win. It is a whole different approach to a competitive scene. DNC pushed the limit of restriction, but if we restrict it a bit further some characters begin to get less benefit from gears. So in that regard DNC should allow a bit more.

Nonetheless I had a good experience participating in it.

Specifics:
Green Liked
Red Disliked
Grey Not Sure

Gameplay Restrictions:
-EX Guard Counter (EXGC) is banned
-EX Splicing (EXS) is banned
-EX Link (EXL) is allowed, but cannot be chained into a EX burst
-EX Cancels (EXCa) are allowed
-EX Reflects (EXR) are allowed
-EX bursts are allowed; but restricted to 1 per fight
-All "Omega" Stages are banned
-Deific Judgments are banned
-Any form of "cheating" (CWcheats ect) is not allowed
-Infinites are not allowed
-All Summons are not allowed and are NOT allowed to be equipped


Abilities
The following are not allowed:
-Exp to EX Force
-Exp to Bravery
-Exp to HP


Equipment
The following are not allowed:
-Artifacts with the "Land Profiteer" ability
-Any hacked equipment (Chaos Equips, Unused ect..)

Accessory limits
Multiplier cap of 4.0 Multipliers at no point should go above this number during a fight.
+2 ATK Restriction Players are not allowed to have more than 2 points of ATK
added to their accessories. (Adepts are exempt from this rule)
+6 DEF Restriction Players are not allowed to have more than 6 points of DEF
added to their accessories. (Adepts are exempt from this rule)

Initial X Accessories Any accessories which give Initial EX or Initial BRV are not allowed.

=Basic Accessories
The following are not allowed:
-Smiting Soul
-Mindbreak
-Mindcrush
-Safety Bit
-Safety Ring

=Booster Accessories (Multiplier Cap of 4.0)
The following are not allowed:
-All hacked Booster accessories

=Special Accessories
+2 ATK Restriction
+6 DEF Restriction
The following are not allowed:
-Vengeful Soul
-Rebellious Soul
-All breakable accessories except for Patience Incense
-All hacked Special accessories
-Any special accessories that give "Initial BRV/EX"

I think either DNC should have allowed as much as attack/defense as possible or not allow any attack/defense boosting gems.

Character Restriction:

This was a great idea, and I thought it was kinda cool. I can't speak for everyone, but being great with more than three characters is a bit overestimated. So it makes a perfect choice to allow players to focus on their strengths instead of playing a character just for a gimmick or a counter. Although I can see it being a problem if all the three characters are too similar with the same weaknesses.

Thumbs up in this regard.

Banning Omegas:
I expressed my opinion before on this when the ruleset for forming, and I am against the idea of banning omegas.

Predetermined M1 Stages:
Well this was result of banning omegas, but I really didn't like the fact of knowing the stage ahead of time as it took out the surprise factor as well as determined if a certain character will be used or not. Also as funkyman pointed out having the same map (or map type) in a row can be disastrous.

Stage Striking:
The stage stroking system was alright and sometimes worked against certain characters as there are alot more large maps than small. I can ban The Rift, but there are Lunar Subtrance, Crystal World, Dream's End, Order's Sancuary but one tiny map Edge of Madness. Having that tiny map banned leaves very few alternatives.


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Again given all these factors it was a great tourney to participate in. I hope future hosts will not give up on gears.