I'm actually quite annoyed at Cloud's shitty magic abilities. His magic abilities were awesome in VII. AC justified the change with him not having Materia, but if Square is pushing this "Cloud is a fighter" shit, I'm gonna be really agitated.
Also? I read this thread as "Cloud's hair game." That amused me. So much so, in fact, that I actually came just to say that, & everything else was merely an afterthought.
It's off-topic, but I would have to take issue with that. In FF1 a paladin served as fantastic DPS and as a tank because they usually take no where near as much damage, or just block. And in many of the games formation is based such that melee characters who tend to have higher defence can be put in front to soak up damage for the mages. FFIV being a very good example of this, where Cecil and Kain tend to be in front (sometimes edge) so that they can soak up the melee damage that would normally pwn the mage characters (and sometimes edge).Originally Posted by Haruhiist
[Deviantart||TheInfinityColosseum||Cloud Guide]
[Currently Playing: Ragnarok Odyssey - PASBR:Raiden,Heihachi,BigDaddy]
Melee fighters, of course, have higher defense and can take more damage than a caster class. This doesn't make them a tank, something that can pretty much take a Boss' full arsenal of spells head on without dying. They still need heals.
But this is, as you said, off-topic. >.>
I'll cut it short what the usage is of Cloud's moves
Fire is an unreliable magic to use in random stages. the start up time of fire makes it really unreliable and OAD really makes Fire look like crap. Players will take advantage on that lag time against Cloud.
Fira is meant to alternatively dodge punish players, So let's say CoD dodges out of the way and Cloud uses Fira to dodge punish, The CoD will obviously try to Wrath Giving you a chance to counter that Wrath with slashing blow, The CoD player will later figure out not to use Wrath and simply take the hit.
Firaga works best with Riposte, Blocking an opponent and using firaga straight in his face will deal a lot of damage, Alternatively you can use Firaga to somewhat pressure the opponent on coming to you, OAD kind of ruins it though.
Sonic Break is perfect to punish side dodges and it's great to have "Finishing Touch" linked up to it instead of having Cross Slash equipped. The final hit of Sonic Break deals tremendous damage and works well in wall rush area's. Ontop of that it'll give you the chance to link Sonic Break to Double cut to Slashing Blow if the player is not paying attention.
Climhazzard is an obvious extension to Slashing Blow, It's good for punishing back dodges, Climhazzard's final hit works great in stages such as "The Rift" Climhazzard has the same knock down as Omnislash V5, If you don't want to lose your brave but you wish to smack someone down the banish trap, Climhazzards final hit is your way in.
Cloud has magic but so does Squall, But we don't see Squall using the draw function now do we? this is the final post in regards of Cloud's magic and move list, Keep it on the thread about Cloud's air game.
Although it would be interesting to see the characters reference their game's battle system, Dissidia already uses something similar to materia, with regards to equipable abilities. With that said, I would like more magic for Cloud. Dissidia definitely painted him as "bad at magic," which he's not.Cloud has magic but so does Squall, But we don't see Squall using the draw function now do we?
How many other characters* have slow-moving fire spells? Do their ranges decrease when the power of the spell increases?
*=I immediately thought of WoL, but that's justified, in that he really DOESN'T have access to black magic & is using an item.
Off-Topic: What Kraid mentioned about Terra doesn't bother me as much because, in her chase sequences, she's at least implied to be very skilled with that sword.
Last edited by Neo Bahamut; 07-30-2010 at 10:42 AM.
I THINK what he means here is that, and I'll translate:
"I am not bothered about Fire. Cloud has never been a character for Mindgames in any of the Final Fantasy VII Compilation. The Cloud on Advent of Children/Last Orders was a tank and not a mage. He did use Meteorain however but never Fire.
Cloud is a tank because all his attacks are up close. This is not including Blade Beam or your 'Zell' Fire." (GEDDIT? BECAUSE ZELL IS A CHICKENWUSS! =D)
That's what I'm ASSUMING he's saying. So now we have that established here are a few things to say also:
1. You cannot go around comparing what Cloud is like in the original sources and use that as an excuse to why Cloud shouldn't use Fire. Did you know that Terra was quite a destructive force with a sword? Did you know that Firion was actually better off as a Mage in FFII than a Melee user (Despite the fact EVERYONE USES HIM FOR MELEE INCLUDING MYSELF.)
2. Tank ≠ Melee. Infact in FFVII Cloud has a high Magic Stat meaning he CAN use Magic quite well. It doesn't matter because of the high customization of FFVII anyways. But this is a moot point because of the point above. Also Haruhiist explains above what a Tank is.
Speaking of Haruhiist:
Not true: Final Fantasy XI, XII and XIII have 'true blue' tanks. Other Final Fantasy games CAN have tanks BUT it's far far FAR less effective than in the three games I've mentioned above. Actually X can also 'tank' but again certainly not as good as the other three mentioned.
And Haruhiist, most if not all Tanks still need heals every now and then aswell.
I wouldn't care about having more magic to help his air game, I would just like more variety instead of 3 of the same move that are slightly altered.
And WoL's Fire is bad, but he's also got both Lightning and Ice, both of which are quite good.
I think some kind of "Double Cut" like air attack would make all the difference. Without something like that though, Fire becomes almost a necessity.
His thunder seems pretty average, but Terra & Kefka have far more impressive blizzard attacks than him.
Well yeah, they're magic users. I'm just saying that Cloud could use some kind of magic to mix things up and potentially compliment his lackluster air abilities. He shouldn't have Terra level magic, but at least as good as WoL.
Every one of his Fires operates the same way, with WoL, he can make ice appear above your head, hit you consecutively with electricity, or use a crappy fire attack.
Cloud needed something like WoL's Blue Fang so that he could put some pressure on far away opponents as opposed to his obvious and far too direct Fire attacks.
But that's just speculation, as far as his real air game is concerned, I think his biggest weakness isn't the fact that moves like Slashing Blow are obvious, but rather, that he only has 4 attacks, 2 of which are situational to the opponent being above or below. On an even level in the air, Cloud has only 2 offensive options, Slashing Blow, and Braver, they're both easy to see, and your opponent knows those are your only options. Even one more BRV or HP attack in the air would have made all the difference for both mindgames, and just general effectiveness.
Yea cloud having fire helps aloot. You wouldnt be able to be too defensive if you dont have one of his fire type attacks. Which means it lessons your options. Well thats MO.
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