Terra V Celes

[Scott]

Neo Bahamut must really hate Terra.

Let's stop with the "If this happened, then" garbage. Fact of the matter, stuff did happen.

[Neo Bahamut]

She wouldn't be that bad if she ever actually did anything useful.

[Kraid]

Debunked this already.

No you haven't.

If there was an Empire, there'd be Returners, if both existed, there would be conflict.

The Empire was mostly based on Terra. Unless of course you're playing a completely different version of FFVI that no one else has heard of. Like maybe FFVI Beta 0.1.

Magitek didn't even come from Terra, it came from the captured Espers.

It didn't COME from Terra. However it was INSPIRED FROM Terra.

They did not know that humans could actually have magic until they encountered Terra.

Philosophically incorrect. If the removal of a plot element is enough to make it be considered a "different game," then the removal of either of these entities means it's "no longer FFVI."

You can't have your cake & eat it too.

Nope. You just don't bother listening. If you want to debate something, you should perhaps play FFVI and perhaps read some of the stuff that comes from the Ultimania.

[Vaanskylord]

She wouldn't be that bad if she ever actually did anything useful.

Your hatred for her has put you in some serious denial.

[OmniFalcon]

So...
are u guys arguing over whos better or something...?
Or whos more important to the story?
Or both?
wat

[Vaanskylord]

Read the 1st post.

[Neo Bahamut]

No you haven't.

FF1. FF2. FF3. FF4. FF5. FF7. FF8. FF9. FF10. FF11. FF12. FF13.

None of those games have Terra in them.

Square would have made an FF6--that probably would have been largely the same--without Terra. And if you're going to deny that, then there's not much hope for you.

The Empire was mostly based on Terra. Unless of course you're playing a completely different version of FFVI that no one else has heard of. Like maybe FFVI Beta 0.1.

What the Hell are you talking about? The empire was empiring before Terra was even born. Or I suppose maybe Gestahl is Aizen & orchestrated Terra's birth so he could kidnap her because apparently you can't build an empire unless you capture a magic, half-fairy baby girl?

Invading the Esper World totally wasn't an act of imperial expansion.

I bet he faked his death, too.

It didn't COME from Terra. However it was INSPIRED FROM Terra.

They did not know that humans could actually have magic until they encountered Terra.

Maybe, but someone would have gotten the idea for it eventually. Case in point: FFVII. No one knew what putting Jenova cells into people would do, it was an experiment.

Nope. You just don't bother listening.

That's what you say every time someone disagrees with you. It's time to man up & accept that there are other viewpoints, dude.

If you want to debate something, you should perhaps play FFVI

My knowledge of the events of the game totally shows that I haven't played it.

and perhaps read some of the stuff that comes from the Ultimania.

I have looked for an Ultimania translation, but I came up empty-handed.

Your hatred for her has put you in some serious denial.

I contend that it's blind love for Terra that puts people into denial. It seems almost impossible for people to accept that, gosh, Terra really wasn't that important. And that's why I don't like her.

I mean, really, what's the harm in anything I've said? Why would someone feel the need to accuse me of not playing the game or being in denial just because I hold the opinion that Terra is unlikeable & not very important?

People say it about Vaan all of the time. Does that mean Vaan fans know something about FFXII that the haters don't?
=== Double post was automatically merged. ===
You know, I'm gonna requote all of this, because it hasn't been touched since I said it, despite all of the "you're obviously wrong & don't know anything" comments:

Assume Celes escaped. It's not hard, this is a fantasy game, prisons aren't good for shit. Okay. Now, she's rebelling against the Empire. What group is she likely to join?

The Returners.

Now, the Returners have a magic-wielding soldier. This means that they're likely to enlist the aid of Narshe & try to contact the Espers, just like they did when they had Terra.

Terra didn't even open the door, it was opened by some Espers who were leaving. So, that part would also be more-or-less the same.

[lycropath]

Without Terra the Espers would never trust the Returners with their powers, without her no one can open the gate to the Land of Espers and bring them into the world and without Magic would never be able to overcome the Empire's Magitek.

[Scott]

What the Hell are you talking about? The empire was empiring before Terra was even born. Or I suppose maybe Gestahl is Aizen & orchestrated Terra's birth so he could kidnap her because apparently you can't build an empire unless you capture a magic, half-fairy baby girl?

Perhaps the Empire merely wanted to rule the world with its military might before the rediscovery of Magic, and then, the discovery that humans can use magic.

Kraid never said the Empire didn't have plans before Terra, and forcing a singular plan on the Empire like that is just plain stupid. Times change, people change, plans change. When they discovered Terra, of course they'd try to use her to some end.

Anyway, lets see if we can find out which is the more helpless of the two?

Rescue Tally

Terra:

• Beginning of the game - Locke
• End of the game, taken from the engine of the Falcon - Celes/Entire party?

Celes:

• When she is introduced - Locke
• Floating Continent, resuced from falling to her death - Shadow

Is there any more? =P

[Neo Bahamut]

Without Terra the Espers would never trust the Returners with their powers, without her no one can open the gate to the Land of Espers and bring them into the world and without Magic would never be able to overcome the Empire's Magitek.

Dude, come on, I've hit all of these already. The Espers never joined the Returners--some were going to, but the Returners just led the Empire right to them anyway. Terra didn't open the gate to the Esper World, it was the Espers alluded to above that did, for unrelated reasons. And they would have still gotten magic through Celes & Magicite.

Perhaps the Empire merely wanted to rule the world with its military might before the rediscovery of Magic, and then, the discovery that humans can use magic.

I'll get to that below, but that reminds me that Gestahl didn't know about Terra when he went to the Esper world, & he went there to capture the Espers to use them for Magitek.

So that disproves both the claims that "the Empire was mostly built around Terra" & that she "inspired Magitek." I suppose one could argue that she specifically inspired Magicite Infusion, but that's just splitting hairs.

Kraid never said the Empire didn't have plans before Terra

Technically, no.

When they discovered Terra, of course they'd try to use her to some end.

Well, duh. I'm just saying that empires do not need magical half-fairy chicks. Ergo, the claim that there wouldn't be an empire without Terra is--well, stupid.

Is there any more? =P

Are. Terra giving up on beating Kefka for a week after you meet her in Mobliz. Terra going haywire in the World of Balance. That's all I can think of right now.

And when did Shadow save Celes again?