Firion Assist & EX Revenge Combo Thread + Assist Discussion
Post any combos you find with either assists or EX Revenge here. I'll compile them in the second post.** General notes for choosing assists for Firion
Please only post combos that you've confirmed that they are working. So make sure to test it on a Maximum Strength CPU or a human opponent before posting! Showing a video along with it is always a plus.
If you want to post a possible combo but can't test it, ask someone to do it.
If you're posting an EXR Combo, please note if you are using EXR duration boosting equipment and/or accessories or not, and if you are make sure to let us know which ones you're using.
You can also discuss assists for Firion and how they could be useful for him besides combos.
Assists Summaries
-> Assists that can punish the opponent's dodges and attacks may be the most suitable since Firion is a ground character, so he can't chase the opponent around to punish them himself. They also help limit the opponent's options, lest they risk getting assist punished for damage and possibly other effects such as assist/EX depletion, HP draining or breaks.
If not using an assist that can punish, Firion runs the risk of getting camped from afar or getting spammed at. Thunder is good for long range punishing, but becomes unsafe once the opponent has assist, making it not to be relied on all the time.
-> Worth to note is that there are some assists whose midair BRV attacks can combo off of ground Swordslash while others can't. I recommend choosing an assist that can do so.
-> Assist chases allow for a lot of versatility since you can follow up regardless of the distance between you and the opponent and the terrain, but remember that the only viable followup options are Weaponsmaster and Swordslash/Blizzard. Weaponsmaster is very unsafe if the opponent assist changes as you use it, while Swordslash/Blizzard do low damage.
-> Ground wall rushing assists are helpful since Firion can combo with his damaging ground attacks easily, as well as being able to choose to use Lord of Arms or the different BRV followups over Double Trouble if the opponent has an assist bar for assist changing. Keep in mind that large stages or stages without much ground might interfere with them, making it very hard to impossible to followup if you're calling your assist to punish the opponent, which leaves them free to camp if they stay very far away.
Note that equipping ground Straightarrow and Reel Axe are pretty much needed for comboing off wall rush assists effectively.
Ultimately, choosing between chase and wall rush assists is up to you, as each of them have their strengths and downsides.
** Tidus
Ground BRV: Sonic Buster (wall rush) / Midair BRV: Hopstep (chase)Punishing the opponent: Hopstep is a very fast attack (11F startup) and is hard to punish, because Tidus disappears very quickly so you won't see him getting hit often after the opponent dodges or assist changes on Hopstep. The fast startup also allows Tidus to punish a lot of things easily. Definitely one of the best assists for this purpose.
Ground HP: Spiral Cut (chase) / Midair HP: Slice & Dice (chase)
Sonic Buster is kind of meh, average range/tracking and speed (25F startup.) It can punish ground dodges if you call assist a slightly before the opponent dodges. You probably won't use this as often as Hopstep since the opponent will most likely be in the air most of the time.
Comboing: Sonic Buster is great for assist combos, as it wall rushes downwards. It can do a fair bit of damage since it allows Firion to use any ground attacks of his choosing. It's not so hot in stages with little ground, so you would have to followup with Straightarrow instead.
Hopstep doesn't do much damage, so it's not that great for comboing purposes. You can't do any fancy combos with it, either, as the short duration will make combos pretty straightforward.
Tidus is a good assist if you're just starting out and want to get the hang of how things work.
** Sephiroth
Ground BRV: Reaper (chase) / Midair BRV: Sudden Cruelty (chase)Punishing the opponent: Sudden Cruelty is fairly fast (17F startup,) so it does a good job at punishing. Stays out for a bit on whiff or assist change, so he may get hit fairly easily. Call just as the opponent is dodging to dodge punish.
Ground HP: Octaslash (wall rush) / Midair HP: Hell's Gate (chase)
Reaper has average speed (21F startup,) so it's pretty nice for punishing the opponent's attacks. Sephiroth stays out for a while on whiff or assist change, so he may get hit. This move can't really punish ground dodges.
Comboing: He does plenty of damage and his attacks have long duration, so you can combo in a variety of ways. You can do triple HP attack combos, combo from Reaper without needing to take the assist chase and safely combo off ground Swordslash without needing to take the assist chase.
** Kuja
Ground BRV: Snatch Blow (chase) / Midair BRV: Strike Energy (chase)Punishing the opponent: Strike Energy is also fairly fast (17F startup,) so it's also good for punishing. It works very similarly to Sephiroth's Sudden Cruelty assist, except Kuja has more vertical tracking.
Ground HP: Flare Star (wall rush) / Midair HP: Force Symphony (chase)
Snatch Blow is slow (35F startup), so it's not the best for punishing ground attacks. However, it has quite long range, so it can punish some longer attacks without getting locked for getting hit. On hit, Kuja stays out for a long period of time and remains stationary for the most part, so he's highly vulnerable to getting assist locked after an assist change.
Comboing: Kuja and Sephiroth assists are very similar, combo-wise. But Kuja does more damage and lets you land Straightarrow off of assist chase (which is extremely useful for landing HP hits safely when the opponent has an assist bar), at the cost of having a slower ground assist and being easier to lock after an assist change.
** Jecht
Ground BRV: Jecht Rush (wall rush) / Midair BRV: Jecht Stream (wall rush)Punishing the opponent: Both of Jecht's BRV assists are fast (17F startup in the air and 13F startup on the ground,) so he's pretty good for punishing. In fact, he has the fastest ground assist, so he's a suitable choice against other ground characters. The downside is that he stays out for a long time on whiff and assist changes, making him an easy target for assist locks.
Ground HP: Jecht Blade (wall rush) / Midair HP: Triumphant Grasp (wall rush)
Comboing: He does quite a lot of damage. The duration of his attacks are very long, so you should have no problems with comboing most of the time. You need to chase him around or be generally close to him to follow up if you're punishing the opponent, though. If all else fails, Straightarrow should take care of HP damage.
Additionally, his air assist always wallrushes downwards, making him a great assist in flat stages such as Order's Sanctuary and Empyreal Paradox. In stages with unreliable ground, however, you won't make much use of it since Jecht knocks the opponent for quite a distance during his attacks.
** Warrior of Light
Ground BRV: Sword Thrust (wall rush) / Midair BRV: Rising Buckler (wall rush)Punishing the opponent: Rising Buckler is a little slow for a midair assist (25F startup,) so using him for punishing might be a little tougher than with the other assists previously mentioned. It's still viable for punishing, regardless. WoL might get hit if he whiffs or the opponent assist changes.
Ground HP: Shining Wave (chase) / Midair HP: Shield of Light (wall rush)
Sword Thrust is also a little slow (31F startup,) but is unblockable. Not the best for ground punishing and hard to follow up from if not close to a wall or not able to ready a Straightarrow as you call him.
Comboing: Not the most damaging assist. Rising Buckler wallrushes downwards, making him also nice for combos. Sword Thrust is pretty bad if not close to a wall though, as the only possible followup for it is Straightarrow. So you should try using Rising Buckler over Sword Thrust whenever possible, which may make the timing a bit tricky.
Last edited by Kayarine; 06-23-2012 at 07:36 AM.
Abbreviations used for combo notations in this post:
LC: Lance Combo
RK: Rope Knife
RA: Reel Axe
O: LC, RK and RA neutral BRV followup (punch)
^O: LC, RK and RA forward BRV followup (slash + bow)
vO: LC, RK and RA away BRV followup (lance)
SSg: Swordslash (Ground)
SSa: Swordslash (Air)
Fi: Magic Arts: Flame / Fire
Bl: Magic Arts: Frost / Blizzard
Th: Magic Arts: Bolt / Thunder
DT: Double Trouble
SA: Straightarrow
LoA: Lord of Arms
SB: Shield Bash
WM: Weaponsmaster
wr: wall rush
ac: assist chase
AST: call assist
dc: dodge cancel
( >): Things that can be omitted
Combo-related questions:
** "How do you connect Weaponsmaster off assist chase? I always miss it."
Delay going into assist chase (pressing X) a little bit, then use Weaponsmaster immediately. How much you have to delay it depends on how much knockback the assist attack has and how well the attack you're using tracks and/or the range.
Alternatively, you can just enter assist chase immediately and delay Weaponsmaster instead, using it only once Firion finishes teleporting in.
The latter is easier for following up some attacks such as Sudden Cruelty and Hopstep, while the former is the universal way of connecting almost anything off assist chases with any character.
Assist Combos** Basic combos:
(wr >) AST > wr > RA / RK > any followup
(wr >) AST > wr > SA if far from the opponent or ground
(wr >) AST > ac (delay it a little) > WM
magic SB > AST > followups depending on assist
For the Shield Bash combo, call assist after the lightning hits and the opponent stops going up in the air.
** Ground Swordslash combos:
The timing for calling assist after the Swordslash varies with the assist. For example, WoL and Garland must be done almost right after you hit with Swordslash. Tidus and Sephiroth should be called right before the X for chase appears.
SSg > AST > downward wr > RA / RK > any followup
SSg > AST > ac > WM
SSg > AST > chase > do nothing > wr / ac > SA / WM
LC / RK / RA > DT > wr > AST > SA > ac > WM
LC / RK / RA > DT > wr > AST > RK > DT
[mid range] Th / SSa > wr > AST > SA > ac > WM
LoA / vO > wr > AST > walk towards > RK > DT
SSg > AST > chase > do nothing > SA
SSg > HP AST > chase > chase HP (> ac > WM)
melee SB > AST at the 3rd/4th hit > ac > WM
LC / RK / RA > vO > wr > AST > dc sideways > RK > O > ac > WM
You have to fire Straightarrow right after the pause between Snatch Blow and its followup. Remember to delay assist chase a little so the opponent stops flying upwards by the time Firion gets to them.
When using Rope Knife off of Snatch Blow, wait for the first or second hit of the followup before using it. If successful, Rope Knife will get a hit in right after Snatch Blow ends, and you can followup into Double Trouble. Make sure to be in range of Rope Knife, and don't be too close or else Kuja will miss some hits.
(wr >) ground AST > ground dash > RK > any followup
SSg > AST > LoA immediately
SSg > AST > chase > do nothing > ac > WM
SSg > HP AST > chase > chase HP (> ac > WM)
melee SB > AST at the 3rd/4th hit > ac > WM
LC / RK / RA > DT > wr > AST > SA > ac > WM
[mid range] Th / SSa > wr > AST > SA > ac > WM
For the ground combo, ground dash next to Sephiroth (or a bit ahead of him since he steps ahead) while he's using Reaper and use Rope Knife between the second and third parts of Sephi's attack. Rope Knife should push the opponent away from Reaper's range, pulling them back to Firion and allowing for a followup.
For the last two combos, you have to fire Straightarrow at the second part of Reaper and still have Sephi hold them down after SA (arrow must hit before the pause between the 2nd and 3rd parts).
For the second-to-last combo, delay calling Sephiroth after wall rushing with Double Trouble. Call him a little before the opponent character starts getting up.
LC / RK / RA > DT > wr > AST > air dash towards opponent > WM (make sure to time this before Jecht's final BRV hit)
LC / RK / RA > DT > wr > AST > air dash towards opponent > wr > WM / SA
LC / RK / RA > vO > wr > AST > ground dash towards opponent > LoA
SSg > AST > chase > do nothing > wr > RA > any followup
SSg > AST > chase > do nothing > SA
RK > AST(delay as much as possible) > time cancel > RK > O > wr > RK > any followup
(wr >) ground AST > walk/wait > RA > any followup
LC / RK / RA > DT > wr > AST > land > ground dash towards opponent > LoA
The first combo must be done away from a wall.
The second combo must be done close to a wall. If using OAD, jump or dodge to gain height before the wall rush. Straightarrow is a possible ender if you don't think you'll get close enough in time.
For the combo from ground Swordslash, delay chase as much as possible after calling Jecht.
For the combo with a time cancel involved, Jecht must hold them in place after the punch.
For the second-to-last combo, use Reel Axe when Jecht is about to knock the opponent upwards.
The last combo is mostly for flashiness. Ground dash until about halfway through between you and Jecht for that one.
(ground wr >) ground AST > SA, must hit before WoL does the last hit
LC / RK / RA > vO > AST right before the opponent hits the ground > wr > RA / RK > any followup
LC / RK / RA > DT > AST right before the opponent hits the ground > wr > RK > any followup
SSg > AST > chase after WoL appears > do nothing > wr > RK > any followup
magic SB > AST right before the ice hits the enemy > RA / RK > any followup
melee SB > AST on the third/fourth hit > RA / RK > any followup
** Squall-specific combos:
LC/RK/RA > vO > wr > AST(delay it as much as you can) > ground dash > SSg > RK
LC/RK/RA > DT > wr > AST(delay it as much as you can) > fdc > SA > ac > WM
SSg > HP AST > chase > HP chase attack
The first combo has very strict timing, but if done right, Squall will keep them in place when you hit them with SSg, and you can do RK right afterwards.
For the combo off of ground Swordslash, even if they dodge the HP hit, Squall's Aerial Circle should still hit them. That makes this an unavoidable hit.
** Gilgamesh-specific combos:
SSg > chase > do nothing > land > RK > any followup
LC/RK/RA > DT > AST right before opponent hits the ground > RA / RK > any followup
Th / SSa > wr > AST (delay it slightly) > SA
magic SB > AST before the bolts hit > RA / RK > any followup
melee SB > AST on the fourth hit > RA / RK > any followup
** Cecil-specific combos:
SSg > chase > do nothing > land > RK > any followup
LC/RK/RA > DT > AST right before opponent hits the ground > RK > any followup
Th / SSa > wr > AST immediately > SA
LC / RK / RA > DT > AST > wr > land > RK > any followup
For the last combo, call Cecil about halfway of when Firion is rising while using Double Trouble. He should knock the opponent away from Firion before the last hit of DT. Please refer to the "Cecil DT combo" video below for a visual reference.
** Garland-specific combo:
LC / RK / RA > vO > AST right before the opponent hits the ground > dc sideways > wr > RK > any followup
You must DC sideways towards the opponent for Rope Knife to reach them. Adjusting the camera helps with rolling towards the correct way. Something else seems to affect if Rope Knife will reach the opponent or not, but I've yet to figure it out.
** Onion Knight-specific combo:
(wr >) ground AST > ground dash > RK > any followup
** Zidane-specific combo:
LC / RK / RA > DT > wr > AST > dc > SA
** The Emperor-specific combos:
LC / RK / RA > vO > AST > walk towards, wait > AST + RK > O > walk towards > SSa > RK > any followup
LoA > AST as first wave lands > walk towards > LoA + AST > walk a bit towards > WM
The first assist call must be done after the second hit of the lance followup, so the lance drops the opponent right into Thunder Crest. Walk close to the opponent and use Rope Knife when they get launched away, then call assist again as you use Rope Knife but before it hits. Please refer to "The Emperor double assist combos" in the video section below if you need a visual reference for both combos.
** Terra-specific combo:
RK / RA > AST > ^O > chase > Graviga hits > WM / SA
LC / RK / RA > AST > DT > wr > WM
** Ultimecia-specific combo:
LC / RK / RA > AST > vO > vertical wr > ground dash > RK > any followup
Last edited by Kayarine; 06-23-2012 at 07:22 AM.
Assist combo videos:
Tidus, WoL, Garland and Emperor combos
Sephiroth combos
Cecil DT combo
Jecht combos
Zidane, Terra, Ultimecia and some Emperor, Kuja, OK and Jecht combos
Sephiroth combos (updated)
WoL combos (updated)
The Emperor double assist combos
WoL, Garland, Emperor, OK, Gilgamesh, Terra, Sephiroth, Kuja and Jecht combos
Squall, Gilgamesh, Cecil and Jecht combos
EX Revenge Combos** Near ground combos:
[mid-long range] RA > O > RK > DT (Damage multiplier: 75)
[mid-long range] RA > O > dash towards, behind opponent > LC > DT (Damage multiplier: 75, LC > DT will activate Sneak Attack)
[mid-long range] Th > Th > Th > land > RK > DT (Damage multiplier: 75)
[mid-close range] dash/jump behind opponent > SSa > SSg > SSg > RK > DT (Damage multiplier: 90, Sneak Attack will activate)
[close range] dash/walk behind opponent > LC > O > RK > O > LoA (Damage multiplier: 110, Sneak Attack will activate)
[close range] LC > O > RA > dc > RK > DT (Damage multiplier: 95)
** Midair combos:
[mid-close range] dash towards opponent > SSa > Bl > SA (Damage multiplier: 32)
[mid-long range] dash towards opponent > SSa > WM (Damage multiplier: 42)
[mid-long range] Th > Th > Th > SA (Damage multiplier: 45)
[mid-long range] Th > Th > Th > WM (Damage multiplier: 67)
EXR combo videos:
Combos with Swordslash
Combos with Lance Combo / Reel Axe / Rope Knife
Combos with Thunder
Here
No equipment and acc. used. Just Original Rules (EXR Testing: MAX EXCore App. Rate, MAX EXCore Abs., MAX Crit. Hit Rate, 250 Crit. Hit DMG). Basically, the Rule is programmed to show us how the DMG will be if we use equpiment+right abilities to land criticals (Sneak Attack, Gambler's Spirit, Back to the Wall, Cat Nip, Anti-EX)
Last edited by Kayarine; 04-26-2012 at 07:50 AM.
Can Jecht be included as an assist in here? I know he's overused but it's for a good reason though.
Here's a few that I personally use and developed (if this was done by another person before, I am not aware of it and so I consider this my own combo as I came up with this by mysellf):
All combos work with 100% accuracy as long as you get the timing and spacing down. Practice this on a wide map like sanctuary first so you could get the spacing and timing down more easily.
Rope Knife/Reel Axe>Double Trouble>Wall Rush>Jecht Ground Assist>OAD/FAD towards opponent>Weaponmaster(make sure to time this before Jecht's final BRV hit).
I will not list any Air BRV Jecht combos as they are pretty much the mainstream of each and every character.
And here is one for Sephy (reqs: must have no jump times equipped and have fast descent skill equipped)
Rope Knife/Reel Axe>Double Trouble>Wall Rush>Reaper Assist>Descend as fast as you can while holding direction towards the opponent, upon landing GAD/GOAD to the opponent>Rope Knife>Double Trouble.
Take note that I only posted Dual Double Trouble combos in here, let's call it "DDT" shall we? I think DDT should be abused whenever possible to maximize damage and to reset break points in case you did break your enemy so you could recover your BRV at a faster rate.
Edit: Just to complete the Jecht combo collection, I was thinking of doing video for this but I'm too lazy right now so feel free to do a video of this combos that I made:
Rope Knife/Reel Axe>Lance 2nd part>Wall Rush>Jecht Ground Assist>GOAD/GAD>LoA
Swordslash>Air Jecht Assist>GAD/GOAD towards opponent>(insert Finisher of choice here).
Flashy one but a bit harder, requires same setup as the previous sephy combo:
Rope Knife/Reel Axe>Double Trouble>Wall Rush>Jecht Ground Assist>Descend as fast as you can while holding direction towards the opponent, upon landing GAD/GOAD to the opponent (about halfway through between you and jecht)>LoA
That's all for now and these are the combos that I use for competitive battles just for the sheer damage, versatility and overall usefullness of Jecht Assist. If you are having trouble with the timings and wall rush scenarios just ask here and I'll be glad to help.
Last edited by Crono; 04-04-2011 at 04:49 AM.
Alright, finally added the rest of the assist summaries and wrote the assist combos down... I hope all those abbreviations don't look too confusing, I had to do that to save some space (there IS a 10k character limit, after all) and to make it more organized. If there's any suggestions or complaints about the layout I'm using, I guess I'll have to change it. I didn't write down the EXR combos yet in case people don't like the way I'm writing the combos down.
Anyway, so Jecht can combo off of Swordslash? When I tried using him before I couldn't do it. That's the reason I chose Sephiroth over him. I guess I'll give him another try later.
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Rope knife/Lance Combo/Reel Axe -> Lance follow up (Enemy hits the ground) -> OK assist -> Ground Dash -> LoA (For having fun only)/DTT has always worked with me. His air assist provides an oppourtunity for SA but it's not all that recommended since I haven't had 100% accuracy on this one.
Last edited by fal'Cie; 04-04-2011 at 06:39 AM.
DDFF : ----
I wasn't able to detail the Jecht combos but I will be making a video for this as it is hard to explain it by words because of the timing and distance that is needed to pull them off consistently. There are also situational combos for him that needs to be interchanged but can easily be seen a mile away so you could adjust your finishers and stuff, for example the LC / RK / RA > DT > wr > AST > air dash towards opponent > WM (make sure to time this before Jecht's final BRV hit) is a 100% sure hit provided that there is no wall near your opponent if you are firing weapon master on the back of your opponent because you need weaponmaster to push off the opponent before the final hit of Jecht's assist, you can also this by dashing to the side and doing WM from there but it is a lot harder coz of the angle issues etc. so I don't recommend this. The easier way to do this is if you see there's a wall close by don't do WM and just wait for jecht to finish his combo while you are dash canceling upwards to gain height then after your opponent hits the wall FAD/OAD a bit closer to your opponent then WP, to make it easier and if you're lazy to dash cancel upwards or has bad timing overall (on some days I believe everyone has this), there's Straight Arrow but you will miss great damage by doing so.Originally Posted by Kayarine
I forgot that the Sword Slash>Jecht combo is also situational but is 100% consistent if you're fighting on say Edge of Madness. The condition is that there has to be a wall near your opponents back so Jecht will appear on his side and will be closer to your opponent so that Jecht Stream will hit them.
Also about your analysis on Jecht outside of combos it sounds to me like you are finding him somewhat useless (correct me if I'm wrong). For me he is definitely one of the best punishers around, aside from the standard dodge punish that I could hit for like 90% of the time unless they did a precision dodge it can also punish a lot of stuff from full screen I guess, haven't tried the max range for his assist though. Anything from 20 frames up could be punished w/ ease I think. I think Tidus has a faster startup but the inconsistency of the WM followup kinda annoys me as it sometimes can even cause you a game if it misses while Jecht leads to a sure HP hit both on the air and on the ground.
Overall, thanks for compiling this.
So in the end Jecht is also somewhat stage dependant... Well, I guess I'll add that to the summary at the first post and the note to the combo list unless I didn't understand that right.
And well, to be honest I haven't tried using Jecht in real matches so those are just impressions I got from observing others using Jecht assist (a fair amount of people in the group I usually play with use Jecht assist with other characters). But of course I welcome a better analysis since I didn't actually play with him.
Last edited by Kayarine; 04-05-2011 at 08:07 AM.
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On the contrary he's one of the assists who are not stage dependant as Firion can fire off HP's on the ground or on the air using Jecht assist with almost 100% accuracy. Only the swordslash>combo is the somewhat the limited one as there needs to be a wall near the back of your opponent the others are "interchnageable" since you're a BlazBlue player it will be easier to explain this by saying, there are mid screen combos (LC / RK / RA > DT > wr > AST > air dash towards opponent > WM [make sure to time this before Jecht's final BRV hit]) and corner combos (the one that I discussed on my last post). I'll be posting a vid anyway just to clarify things.
Thanks for keeping this going, hopefully we get more useful combos or ones that favor a particular stage esp. planet's core.
Oh okay, I finally re-read the bit in your previous post talking about the combo and I think I got it. But that's with FAD, right? Otherwise I can't see a way of getting close to the opponent in time for WM to land. Or does Jecht wall rush the opponent at a low height when close to a wall?
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