[Match up Discussion] Gabranth

[axeeeeL]

i wouldnt really say gabby vs firion is stage dependent; the more open the stage, the more room gabranth can space and excharge (and the more room he can ex camp for free regen). the more closed the stage, the easier time gabranth will have getting in on firion during ex mode.

pandamonium is a good stage for this matchup because there's enough walls to get around a lot of firion's pressure, and at the same time it has enough walls for gabranth to pressure effectively with his wallrushes.

[LonelyGaruga]

i wouldnt really say gabby vs firion is stage dependent; the more open the stage, the more room gabranth can space and excharge (and the more room he can ex camp for free regen). the more closed the stage, the easier time gabranth will have getting in on firion during ex mode.

pandamonium is a good stage for this matchup because there's enough walls to get around a lot of firion's pressure, and at the same time it has enough walls for gabranth to pressure effectively with his wallrushes.

>Firion
>Not stage dependent

Moving on...

Firion is always stage dependent. The less ground, the better for Gabranth. Pandaemonium is a terrible example because Firion cna attack through walls really effectively. Rope Knife, Lord of Arms, Thunder, Weaponsmaster (like anyone would really use that...) all go through walls (ignores in the case of Thunder), and Gabranth has...Hatred? Pffft. Firion can just run away from Gabranth and time his EX mode out thanks to the hallway, not to mention Lord of Arms being so incredibly effective in that area. Firion basically gets free harassment thanks to Thunder too, although admittedly the stage does very little to benefit his pressure.

As for large stages, those are a double edged sword in themselves for Gabranth, and the very idea of Gabranth EX camping successfully against Firion is just ridiculous, on any stage. Firion's air game may not be that amazing, but it exists, you know...what Gabranth wants is a stage where Firion's ground game is compromised, which means one that is heavily lacking in ground. Namely:

Old Chaos Shrine: If the ceiling is broken, the lack of room is extremely annoying. Firion isn't just ground oriented, he also needs lots of room in order to space himself appropriately, or he has difficulty getting himself grounded if he becomes airborne, not to mention how much more limited his ground options become if he doesn't have a full range of motion to work with.

Lunar Subterrane: Barely noticeable in some portions of the stage, but the uneveness of the stage are a real thorn in the side when trying to avoid moves like Innocence, primarily because of the camera. The most comfortable setting for Firion players is to set the camera to follow the opponent, so if Gabranth uses it directly above Firion, but at a range where LoA can't hit him, then Firion can't really effectively counter it, so he has to avoid it. And because of the camera, the Firion player won't be able to see the ground, so there's a strong chance that, unless the Firion player had enough time to jump to utilize OAD+, the uneven terrain will impair the Firion player's movement, which would result in Innocence connecting (since Firion doesn't have enough room to avoid it).

Kefka's Tower: Too narrow for Firion to operate effectively, but unlike other stages, there isn't enough room for Innocence to be borderline impossible to punish. The stage's small size benefits Gabranth's BRV game though, so why you would bother with Innocence in the first place beats me.

Planet's Core: It's Planet's Core. This stage practically deserves to be automatically written off as a bad stage for Firion.

Ultimecia's Castle: Similar deal with Planet's Core, but the stage's small size makes it so easy for Gabranth to wall rush with his hits that it's probably worse for Firion than Planet's Core.

Crystal World: Usual lack of ground.

Dream's End. Really, FFVII-FFX all seriously lack ground. Nothing more really has to be said.

Edge of Madness: Special mention not for being a bad stage for Firion, but because its small horizontal size makes Thunder pressure nearly inescapable. If Gabranth can get in EX mode, every hit is going to wall rush (besides the ones that don't wall rush, of course...), but that Thunder pressure is going to be a real nuisance.

Phantom Train: Similar deal with Edge of Madness, but it's more annoying for both sides. Whoever gets the momentum going first pretty much wins the match. Probably the most poorly designed stage in the game.

Not much else to talk about with stages for me.

[axeeeeL]

it's not stage dependent in regards to gabranth. either way the stage goes, gabranth benefits from it in some form. obviously firion is a stage-dependent character; stop talking to me like you know this game better than i do. the more open the map, the more room gabranth can run and camp; the less open the map, the easier he can get in.

the only viable option that firion has that would go through walls and actually HIT gabranth effectively on pandamonium would be thunder, just like on any other map, making your point null. rope knife is never going to hit unless the gabranth is stupid, and even if it DOES hit, the followup isn't going to do anything. lord of arms may hit gabranth, but it's unlikely. weaponsmaster is shit standalone. you should also keep in mind that the situation i'm referring to is when gabranth is running from firion whilst ex charging and NOT the other way around.

ex camping is ridiculous against firion? not really. it's certainly not as effective as it was in DFF due to nerfed dash speed, but if it's a large, open map such as the rift or WoD, then he won't have many problems, especially if it's on the rift.

keep trying.

[Nero Romulus]

To be more exact, I think what Sys-xn was looking for were stages that work against SA spam as that was his main problem in his match with Kewldude. As we all saw in the tournament matchup, Lunar Sub is not an ideal map for Gabby and many others you posted,even edge of madness can be SA spammed.

[LonelyGaruga]

it's not stage dependent in regards to gabranth.

i wouldnt really say gabby vs firion is stage dependent

Oh, my bad. There must be a difference between Gabranth vs Firion and Firion vs Gabranth.

obviously firion is a stage-dependent character; stop talking to me like you know this game better than i do.

Someone's getting defensive~

the more open the map, the more room gabranth can run and camp; the less open the map, the easier he can get in.

The larger the stage, the more difficult for Gabranth to catch up to his opponent if they run, and the smaller it is, the harder it is for Gabranth to deal with Thunder pressure. Works both ways.

the only viable option that firion has that would go through walls and actually HIT gabranth effectively on pandamonium would be thunder, just like on any other map, making your point null. rope knife is never going to hit unless the gabranth is stupid, and even if it DOES hit, the followup isn't going to do anything. lord of arms may hit gabranth, but it's unlikely. weaponsmaster is shit standalone. you should also keep in mind that the situation i'm referring to is when gabranth is running from firion whilst ex charging and NOT the other way around.

Punch followup goes through walls. But that's beside the point. I'm only listing Firion's options for going through walls, which Gabranth cannot do at all. In other words, I'm obviously talking about both sides of the match and not completely disregarding the part where Gabranth is in EX mode. Or are you saying that the only thing that matters for Gabranth is that he enter EX mode?

ex camping is ridiculous against firion? not really. it's certainly not as effective as it was in DFF due to nerfed dash speed, but if it's a large, open map such as the rift or WoD, then he won't have many problems, especially if it's on the rift.

OK, instead of providing the argument that you can't actually run away from Firion (or anyone, for that matter) that well, I'm instead going to Concentration and EX Core camp while you do that. In fact, I'm going to run and do that the entire match if you think you can EX camp. After all, if Gabranth has enough room to run away from Firion and be safe, there's probably enough room for Firion to do the same thing for 20 seconds.

To be more exact, I think what Sys-xn was looking for were stages that work against SA spam as that was his main problem in his match with Kewldude. As we all saw in the tournament matchup, Lunar Sub is not an ideal map for Gabby and many others you posted,even edge of madness can be SA spammed.

Sys just needs to learn to dodge SA. He's good to go once he does that.

[axeeeeL]

Oh, my bad. There must be a difference between Gabranth vs Firion and Firion vs Gabranth.

and if you were paying attention to my post at all, you shouldve been able to infer that i was speaking only in terms of gabranth, seeing as how i didnt mention firion in the following two sentences at all.

Someone's getting defensive~

not really. your ignorance is just really annoying.

The larger the stage, the more difficult for Gabranth to catch up to his opponent if they run, and the smaller it is, the harder it is for Gabranth to deal with Thunder pressure. Works both ways.

if they run from gabranth in ex mode? what are you going to get accomplished? gabranth is the one benefiting from this; he gets constant hp regen if you continuously run on an open stage... not to mention your assist would be sinking due to not attacking.

Punch followup goes through walls. But that's beside the point. I'm only listing Firion's options for going through walls, which Gabranth cannot do at all. In other words, I'm obviously talking about both sides of the match and not completely disregarding the part where Gabranth is in EX mode. Or are you saying that the only thing that matters for Gabranth is that he enter EX mode?

um, no. we were talking specifically about firion's options to hit gabranth through walls, in which only gabranth in normal form is relevant. if you honestly expect any decent firion to continuously run and hide behind walls during ex mode, then you have absolutely no idea how this matchup should work. unless firion decides to hoard brave the entire match, then gabranth would eventually regen all damage firion had done to him should he run every single time ex mode is entered.

firion's dash speed isnt anything impressive, anyways. using air dash in this scenario would close the gap a shit ton.

OK, instead of providing the argument that you can't actually run away from Firion (or anyone, for that matter) that well, I'm instead going to Concentration and EX Core camp while you do that. In fact, I'm going to run and do that the entire match if you think you can EX camp. After all, if Gabranth has enough room to run away from Firion and be safe, there's probably enough room for Firion to do the same thing for 20 seconds.

this is the only part of your post that i can agree with. concentration could be a viable option to keep gabranth at a reasonable distance from you, which would significantly reduce the potential of ex camping.

and no, it doesn't work like that. gabranth actually has the range and speed to get in on a running firion. what does firion have that can actually hit a running gabranth? thunder? nope. straightarrow? nope. fire? nope. his sword slash? nope.

gabranth has dual rend and rupture, which are both decently fast melee moves that can hit you during your OAD.

[LonelyGaruga]

and if you were paying attention to my post at all, you shouldve been able to infer that i was speaking only in terms of gabranth, seeing as how i didnt mention firion in the following two sentences at all.

I really don't see why you should completely ignore your opponent when choosing a stage.

if they run from gabranth in ex mode? what are you going to get accomplished? gabranth is the one benefiting from this; he gets constant hp regen if you continuously run on an open stage... not to mention your assist would be sinking due to not attacking.

Concentration while he's charging, of course. That's assuming the stage is even large enough for either character to viably run away. And I don't see why anyone would care about losing assist when Gabranth would wipe it out whenever he enters EX mode in the first place.

um, no. we were talking specifically about firion's options to hit gabranth through walls, in which only gabranth in normal form is relevant. if you honestly expect any decent firion to continuously run and hide behind walls during ex mode, then you have absolutely no idea how this matchup should work. unless firion decides to hoard brave the entire match, then gabranth would eventually regen all damage firion had done to him should he run every single time ex mode is entered.

Then how about you tell me what Firion is going to be doing when Gabranth is in EX mode, instead of completely blowing off half of the matchup you're talking about. Unless you don't actually know what Firion can do, which is certainly one possibility that can easily be inferred from your posts.

At any rate, of course I'm not suggesting Firion hide behind walls constantly. I'm suggesting the Firion player take advantage of the landscape to run away from Gabranth and occasionally attack through. Whatever is appropriate for the situation, the walls are an important factor here.

firion's dash speed isnt anything impressive, anyways. using air dash in this scenario would close the gap a shit ton.

What the hell would Air Dash accomplish in Pandaemonium?

gabranth actually has the range and speed to get in on a running firion. what does firion have that can actually hit a running gabranth? thunder? nope. straightarrow? nope. fire? nope. his sword slash? nope.

OK, keep on running. Firion can just stalk Gabranth and then Thunder spam the moment Gabranth stops to charge. As for running away from Gabranth, yeah, Gabranth is faster. What of it? What Firion should do is obviously based on the stage, but he's certainly not helpless.

gabranth has dual rend and rupture, which are both decently fast melee moves that can hit you during your OAD.

It's called blocking. Unless you're saying that 15f (19f for Rupture) is too fast to block on reaction. Of course, that's discounting the lunging animations the two have that make them even more noticeable, among other issues.

[One-Winged-Angel]

Gabranth is a really fun person to play as, definitely my favorite. Hard to beat 244 hp regen (as well as the 244 bravery when hp is full) I've got some pvp coming up that I'm really looking forward too as well. I've done pvp with Shantotto and Jecht but not Gabranth yet. Any matchup tips for Gabranth versus Cloud (somewhat doubt I will have too much trouble but you never know) and Gabranth versus Sephiroth? Thanks guys.

[Dyxo Xinoro]

So I was practicing with Gabranth and CoD is always able to troll me with her dame Wide, Angle Fusillade, and that 360 Tentacle attack. I managed to win, but what's the best approach to fighting her?